Tailoring sets supposedly nerfed on PTR - Page 2

Litany · 04/30/07, 8:34 PM

Originally Posted by Crazytrucker

Any news on mooncloth by chance?

Just checked, stats are the same still.

And yeah, tailoring is definitely "overpowered", but as I mentioned earlier in the thread.. being limited by poor itemization is bad too. I agree, no one can really say that some sort of change wasn't necessary, but to me this seems like the easy way out to avoid solving the real problems. For what it's worth, I don't even have tailoring and I'm healing specced, so it doesn't directly affect (effect? gah, I never get these right) me, but the general theory behind their itemization does.

• Hamlet · 04/30/07, 8:35 PM

Obviously this sucks for people like me who just finished their set. However, based on the posted changes, I don't think it appreciably changes the amount of time that these items will be worn by most people. So it's like we're suddenly writing off all the money spent on Tailoring as a loss.

Nibinay · 04/30/07, 8:37 PM

I really saw this coming. And to be honest in the big picture they are very minimal changes. I think the tailors dodged a bullet if this the extent of the nerf. I also think spellstrike will get the bat as well. It was bound to happen when no one was using the actual gear from boss drops.

MeCh · 04/30/07, 8:40 PM

Well, whats clearly over the top is the Spellstrike bonus haveing no internal cooldown.

Setia · 04/30/07, 8:40 PM

Spellstrike hasn't moved from its current stats.

On Spellfire and Shadoweave, they nerfed not only the point allocation, but also the budget. On the robes, 12 damage shifts to 8 int, and on the 2 other pieces, 11 damage shifts to 8 int. Considering the exponential cost of stats, that means they reduced the item budget by a good amount...

Honestly, I'm pissed. As others said, they should fix the tiered sets with all its spirit, instead of nerfing items many people spent thousands of gold to get, or are presently spending thousands of gold to get... I'm not the most affected, since I've been a tailor from day one on my mage, but many people in my guild have made the switch to tailoring in the past weeks, after waiting to make sure they didn't nerf the set in the first PTR patch.

Hangman · 04/30/07, 8:47 PM

About time they tuned(balanced) that.
before it was tier4 - tier5/tailoring
now it will be tier4/tailoring - tier5
Now if only they unsoulbound the ring enchants or remove them from game, the people with god chosen proffesions wont have advantage over others.

Grogzor · 04/30/07, 8:48 PM

"Our dilemma is that we hate change and love it at the same time; what we really want is for things to remain the same but get better." -- Sydney J. Harris

Sometimes the correct answer to fix something is not to buff everything else. There was obviously a problem and Blizzard is fixing it. And don't act like its the end of the world because it isn't. Adapt and overcome, hunters have been doing it for the past 2.5 years.

Quixotic · 04/30/07, 8:58 PM

As someone with both full spellfire on my mage, full shadoweave on my warlock, and in an above average raid guild, I'd like to add my thoughts on this subject.

I fully expected a nerf to this content seeing as how blizzard is reluctant to make the raid drops big upgrades over previous tiers to appease the non-raiding (I hate to say casual) 70's. Both the sets are either DPS downgrades or sidegrades. They simply were too well itemized. Any logical upgrade would have to be more +damage in the case of affliction warlocks/shadow priests and that caused a serious gear plateau that wouldn't be eclipsed until black temple and beyond loot.

When you have casters who wont loot a single item in all of SSC and still top the damage meters is kind of silly and improving raid drops from what is already an overly well itemized set will cause caster inflation way too fast.

Opu · 04/30/07, 8:58 PM

Originally Posted by Litany

Though some kind of change was needed, I think, it's frustrating how they went about it, and it hints at a greater problem in itemization theory at Blizzard. These sets were excellently itemized. Aside from the fact that they had specific school damage, they just spent item points well. Now, they're removing damage and adding intellect? What? Poor itemization on tailoring items doesn't make tiered sets better. What needs to happen is more intelligent distribution of stats. They don't need to be perfect, but there's a huge margin between perfect and awful; somewhere closer to perfect than awful on the sliding bar would be nice.

It's more difficult for healing gear to quantify the benefits of healing vs. mp/5 for instance, but for DPS classes, aside from the quasi-benefits of stamina, it's almost pure math. Math that changes depending on spec, sure, but there's a best DPS spec for most classes too. Gear should be itemized towards that end. Anything else is nothing short of frustrating.

Totally agree with this post. The developers seem to think nerfing one thing counts as a real buff to something else -- this attitude is getting to be extremely frustrating.

I completely understand the nerf however, spriests and affliction locks waltzing around in gear that is as good or better in some cases than Black Temple loot is pretty absurd.

Elendril · 04/30/07, 9:01 PM

Err - ultimately, balance in a game is about relative power level, not absolute. If they left the set the same but buffed every other item, the result would be the same - a reduction in relative power level of the set, which is what the intention of this change clearly was.

The tailoring sets were too good. They were itemized too well for their accessibilty, and they provide an imbalance not only with the quality of raid gear, but with the quality of gear available to other classes. I touch on this in the hunter thread, but the tailoring sets are a big reason casters are blowing away other classes in damage - tailors are simply at a higher tier of gear than anyone else by default.

Emily · 04/30/07, 9:02 PM

Giving pure spell school damage stats on any item is always a bad idea and extends the lifespan of that item for an unnaturally long amount of time: either until you get a higher +school dmg in the same slot, or until ilvl increases to the point where you can get pure +dmg to the same amount, which is usually far longer than it should be.

Also, stacking +dmg to the exclusion of stats was a silly idea, unless they plan to continue that trend in almost all future itemisation. It's not secret that dps casters favour +dmg over Int or Sta to a degree that overcomes the natural hurdle of stat stacking on items.

Non tailors were pissed that they needed to change profession or be sub-par until tier 6-7, and tailors were pissed that they couldn't get any upgrades until tier 6-7.

djor · 04/30/07, 9:03 PM

The way the nerf was carried out amuses me the most.

lazerpewpew · 04/30/07, 9:04 PM

Originally Posted by Opu

Totally agree with this post. The developers seem to think nerfing one thing counts as a real buff to something else -- this attitude is getting to be extremely frustrating.

Do you really want to see armor with +2000 spell damage?

Nerf one thing is a good way to go about not letting itemization out of hand IMHO.

lyquid · 04/30/07, 9:05 PM

I understand why they did it, it's just unfortunate that this is the situation. I think its just their design philosophy biting them in the arse. They employed the same treatment to paladins to bring their healing back to where it should have been in the developers' minds. Instead of buffing all the remaining classes (priests, druids, shaman) they took the logical path of bringing the outlier back.

Instead of buffing T5/T6/Hyjal (and thus every set that would follow those sets), they chose to (unfortunately, yet logically) bring crafted cloth stuff back to where it 'should be'. Yea, it sucks for everyone who leveled tailoring but you really can't say you didn't see it coming if you understand how they make decisions.

Elendril · 04/30/07, 9:06 PM

Originally Posted by Emily

Giving pure spell school damage stats on any item is always a bad idea and extends the lifespan of that item for an unnaturally long amount of time: either until you get a higher +school dmg in the same slot, or until ilvl increases to the point where you can get pure +dmg to the same amount, which is usually far longer than it should be.

Also, stacking +dmg to the exclusion of stats was a silly idea, unless they plan to continue that trend in almost all future itemisation. It's not secret that dps casters favour +dmg over Int or Sta to a degree that overcomes the natural hurdle of stat stacking on items.

Yeah, this is another reason the sets had to change. One of the challenges of itemization in WoW is how to make future items appealing, and one way to do that is to itemize introductory raid items suboptimally. Naxx gear stood head and shoulders over everything prior to it not only because it was higher ilvl, but because it was the first gear that didn't have throwaway stats like resists from MC/BWL or hybrid weirdness like in AQ. The tailoring sets are the opposite - they are too optimally itemized for introductory gear for anything to hope to eclipse them before we get many tiers down the road, and that makes for a lack of itemization progression.