I posted this on the EU suggestion boards too, but figured it could be worth a discussion here as well.

We were doing him tonight and about 5 horde came and just decided to make it impossible for us to kill him. We are on a PvP server, but the problem is there is no PvP solution, they simply just stay on their flying mounts and fly in to die at enrage, they are out of range for any spells and can keep doing it all night.

I reported this behavior and was dumbfunded by the reply I got from GM's, apparently the old ruleset for Kazzak doesn't apply to this "new" version. On the old Kazzak there was usually a PvP solution and people with lvl 1 alts would get banned (and people who intentionally died.) You can't really have lvl 1 alt's at Kazzak anymore, unless you go through porting them to Shattrath and summon to his throne... But sans that it's much easier to grief people doing this boss as just flying in and dying on purpose will wipe most any raid without any solution what so ever, I would think it's even worse on PvE servers.

What do people here think? Is it just fine how it is, or should the old rules be implemented again?

This is one of the realities of a PvP server.

The GM issue with kazzak griefing in the end only applied to same-faction griefing.
Amazingly, we've been griefed more on Kazzak by Horde retards than Alliance. (What? Kazzak heals? Its bannable? -commence anger that we brought it up-).

It is incredibly aggravating to have 1-2 people (definitely does not take 5) so easily screw up an encounter for a guild that is learning it. It happened though on world dragons, it happened on the old kazzak - and nothing was changed then, nothing probably will be done about it.

Kazzak perhaps could not "feed" on people on flying mounts - or just instagib them.

At the moment though, 5 flying individuals will pretty much require you to heal 5 extra heals on Kazzak if they so choose to grief you. There is no PvP solution to this; yes, its stupid.

With how close the graveyard is to kazzak, they can keep on comming till the rez timers ruin them.

That is exactly why I think they should get back the policies. Competition and World PvP on world bosses is fine, but this is nothing but grief and it should be an offense/bannable.

The boss is not overly hard and we've killed him before. The limiting factors to success or defeat should be if we play right and if there is pvp, then it should be how the raid reacts and adapts to the people trying to kill us. But as it is right now, if 1 or 2 random people wants to mess with us, we might as well just not bother.

Bring more people and let them die. We had 4-5 Alliance grief us on our last Kazzak kill, and once we stopped having everyone focus on them, we just powered through it. Of course, we had 40 people, so that's why we weren't concerned about extra heals, etc.

What do you mean focus? We can't do anything to people 60 yards in the air flying in to sacrifice. I realize more people makes the fight easier and could probably recover from a heal or two, but still. We had 30 tonight and we could do nothing to people flying in to sacrifice for 4-5 heals.

I've been on both sides of these types of conflicts, and it's all too easy to call it griefing when it's being done to you, while you will always have a very valid reason to do it when it's done by you.

I am inclined to agree with Blizzard policies (for the EU at least) and simply let things run their course on PvP servers rather than to police it. Coming to a forum with a heavy PvE oriented crowd visiting to "receive feedback" on these kinds of policy discussions is something I frown upon personally, especially as the threat of diving into one of those PvP versus PvE conflicts is very high and those are usually of the quality more suited to the type of forum you are crossposting from.

ps: As far as I am aware, on PvE servers it's considered zone disruption and actions are taken to people being reported and seen doing this. You can take that piece of information how you will.

I think you are missing the point, I'm not complaining about the PvP aspect, I'm complaining about the lack of a PvP solution to counteract people flying in to sacrifice to screw people doing the encounter. I'm unsure of the PvE ruleset, but there really is no difference in this case.

There is a huge difference between actively disrupting attempts by PvP (killing or cycloning MT or healers or what ever) and then what's going on here. It has nothing to do with PvP.

Edit: Regardless, we'll just bring 40 next time and hopefully it'll be possible to ignore the people doing this.

I think you're missing the point. PvP disruption is fine, pretending to be a world-war II kamikaze is not.

It's impossible to fight back, there's no PvP solution to the dispute.

Familiar, unfortunatly. On our last Doom walker kill we had 5 players just hunting down few individuals who were trying to grief us. This is even more annoying on dw, compared to kazzak, due mark.

During all these years I really failed to comprehend whats the joy of deathcoiling the tank or the new trick, cyclone the tank.

Feeding kazzak seems to be a bit weird. I've seen opposite faction players getting few days bans from feeding kazzak and mushrooming on Emeriss. This seems to be up to GM or how eager is the banning section, or if they arent too concentraded in bot hunting.

Being around since pre-Kazzak days, two guilds on our PvE server were notorious for griefing us and a few other guilds on Kazzak and the Emerald Dragons. From causing mushrooms to pulling aggro and having a dragon breathe on the raid, they did it all, and just didn't care. Reported to GMs, some of those griefers were suspended over time. We even Fraps'd clear griefing by them a number of times. In the end, I spoke to most of the guilds on the server about a world boss policy: Better communication on bosses that don't require trash cleared, inform the others when you are ready to go. And the first guild to start clearing trash for Emerald Dragons and has a sizeable raid, goes first.

Personally, I think the first brain fart was putting such a grief-encouraging ability on a world-boss in the first place.

I find it funny that mechanics intended to be anti-zerging devices ended up making it incredibly simple for a level one alt to completely ruin an attempt. Honestly, does it really matter if people zerg down world bosses? I don't think it does.

That's the most impressive griefing organizing ever Mu, you deserve something major. Probably wicked satisfaction? At least you're not on the OP's server

My guess is that they are just waiting patiently their turn.

We've had multiple such fights where alliance and horde guild try Kazzak multiple times one after another in decent harmony.

It wasn't ganking, it looks like they're goofing around while waiting politely for their turn.

Its nice tobe the only guild who seem to care about outdoor bosses, we have however had a few suicides recently and I'd imagine it would be entirely possible to go through 2/3 enrages however im guessing its a bigger problem than that for some higher pop servers!

/cancelaura Flight Form
/assist Doom Lord Kazzak
/cast Nature's Swiftness
/stopcasting
/castsequence Cyclone, Cat Form, Dash

That, is by far one of the best WoW screenshots I've ever seen.

I don't think level one alt can have flying mount. Not that it matters, there's enough 70 to make it enough of a problem. The one and only time we tried DLK, we gave up due to some people suiciding and usual lack of GM reaction. Interestingly enough, it was never a problem on normal Kazaak - though perhaps it's due to flying mounts making it trivial to skip all elites, which wasn't all that easy on Azeroth.

More due to the fact that no one could be arsed to travel to Blasted Lands and as you say, the elites that were in the way.

Throne of Kil'Jaeden is far more easily accessible with flying mount and Shattrath so close.

if you look on the left of the top of the O youll see me

<3 mu