World Boss Policies - Page 2

Vhad · 05/04/07, 6:14 AM

Looks like alot of people are misunderstanding, ah well. While the other things are frustrating too, atleast there is a PvP solution to it. My original question was: Do people think they should get back the old rules for Kazzak to the "new" Kazzak? It was never about waiting turn and any PvP interactions. It was all about people intentionally dying to heal Kazzak without any PvP solution.

Samelina · 05/04/07, 9:15 AM

It seems that the outdoor policy is pretty fluid. For example on my old server Burning Legion (US). The only way that you could report someone for world boss griefing was if the character was clearly too low level for the zone, also if a max level character was griefing there was nothing a GM would do unless the player was naked.

Cel · 05/04/07, 9:58 AM

I've always thought it would be a good idea to have the area around world bosses flagged as PvP zones... so you could snipe the low levels and have some fun with the Hordes. :x Same Faction low levels... hmmm... perhaps flag them as arena zones with the group protection extending to the whole raid rather than individual parties.

Lumi · 05/04/07, 10:05 AM

The only world boss that had fun pvp to go along with it was Azuregos. He was so trivial and so much HP that the entire encounter was the pvp aspect. Flying mount griefing with a super close GY is much worse than the old world Kazzak.

Lycur · 05/04/07, 10:09 AM

When we attempted him about a month back people dying to him that were outside the raid with the tag weren't healing him - and given the amount of random grief going on we were in a pretty good position to tell. I suppose you're equally sure the horde were healing him, but it seems like a really, really stupid thing for Blizzard to change.

snape · 05/04/07, 11:35 AM

There would be no need for a PvP solution if there was a raid-ID tagging for world bosses where he would only heal if a member of your RAID died (one of the 25 to 40 people you have with you in your raid). Of course, you could be bringing MORE than 40 people (I guess), but I think it's a good bandaid fix (that would make a PvP solution unnecessary).

Aditu · 05/04/07, 11:38 AM

The best solution is to allow mount-to-mount combat.

Dakous · 05/04/07, 11:43 AM

If they want world PVP for world bosses, why isn't there a banner one picks up that tags the world boss and flags the banner wearer? Have the bosses only drain life (or otherwise anti-zerg) if they kill someone partied with the banner wearer... and have their "I'm AOEing the raid" ability do x25 normalized damage... divided by the number of people the banner wearer is raided with.

Oh well, just a thought.

snape · 05/04/07, 11:55 AM

Great sig, Dakous. That was one of the few outward laughter moments reading these forums at work:

"The Philanthropy of Kel'Thuzad"

Vernichter · 05/04/07, 12:32 PM

Honestly, the best solution on Kazzak would be for him to instagib anyone flying near him and in a set height range above him while he is in combat (without self-healing, of course). As long as there was a minimum height such that it was not triggered by raid members standing on obstructions, this should prevent dive-bombing from triggering the heal.

Ghando · 05/04/07, 4:29 PM

Being from a PvP server with a long history of cross-faction rivalries, griefing outdoor bosses doesn't really bother me. Kazzak's anti-zerg mechanism is retarded and I agree with comments about flying mounts. Also, MAKE CYCLONE DISPELLABLE. With Doomwalker, it's all good fun. Any griefing necessarily comes in the form of PvP...the opposing faction is forced to kill your raid members. This can be countered through potting, awareness and quick heals.

Same-faction griefing is another beast altogether. We had a number of occasions where less-advanced Horde guilds would grief us on Emerald Dragons (chain taunting them on the breath timers to get our healers hit, which is bad times when you're trying to 15-man them). In none of those cases did the GMs take any action. In fact, we were repeatedly told they COULDN'T take action as Detheroc is a PvP server. We sarcastically asked if, that being the case, could they please flag our fellow Horde so we could kill them? They just got confused. : /

Trouble · 05/04/07, 4:50 PM

We've had a lot more trouble from people who simply don't understand how the fight works and who want to see what's going on. From what I've gathered, and this may not be entirely true, the range of the shadowbolts during his enrage is higher than the normal shadowbolts. We've had many occasions where we burn him to 50% or so at the enrage, with various onlookers, and then he enrages and all of a sudden two or three people die and our attempt is done. I think the mechanic really needs to be looked at. It's way too susceptible to both purposeful griefing and simple accident onlooker deaths.

Anias · 05/04/07, 5:02 PM

Outdoor bosses, as long as they are not part of the progression path, should just be viewed, start to finish, as grief-expected-fights.

Less heartache that way. I agree, there's quite a few silly and stupid things you can do on them, but generally - if you just wait for the avg non-raid doofus to get bored and leave, you can kill them. If it's another raid guild wrecking you, well you probably reap what you sow in that case.

I've had a couple of "we'll just sit here and play dota, let us know when you get bored and go do something else" moments with random idiots on skywall back in the green dragon days, but once it was clear that was our policy people don't mess with us anymore. Admittedly, we also used lethon as an offensive weapon to dissuade a horde guild from interfering (using the dragon to corpse camp them until they stopped ressing, then killed him. The goal with outdoor bosses is to make it so incredibly painful to interfere with your raid that the other guilds and players on server will go out of their way to avoid it. The method will change with the opposing players, but that's the goal.

Never underestimate the power of boredom to overcome the avg unmotivated idiot in wow.

Melador · 05/04/07, 5:25 PM

As much as I despise the griefing that generally accompanies world bosses, I have to admit I do like that with the proper organization you can often avoid it. Getting all the groups organized and ready to go, then swooping in from Shattrath and oneshotting Kazzak before any horde had a chance to get wind of what we were doing was pretty satisfying (/wave Ghando).

It would be really nice if world bosses weren't deisgned to be so grief-friendly though. Kazzak practically begs for griefing. More fights should be like Doomwalker -- short debuff to prevent graveyard zerg griefing, good portions of the fight where you can be pvping while fighting the boss, etc.

Ghando · 05/04/07, 5:34 PM

Basically, on a PvP server with any competition you'll get one attempt. One attempt before griefers show up. If we don't bag Kazzak or Doomwalker on the first pull we leave for a while.