With the addition of Black Temple we have been introduced to quite new way of gear itemization. Passive melee and spell haste never appeared before on other items and shows us that they are willing to introduce some new ways in which we can customize our gear. This made me think about other "possible" stats or effects which could be used on various gear and make the end-game itemization bit more interesting than focusing on the usual 2-4 important stats or effects for each class.
So which other effects or stats would you use on your gear?
These 3 are the first that came into my mind.
+dmg in melee form - this is pretty much already existing effect, but its very rarely used. This stat looks quite appealing for feral druids especially, atleast from what I remember from some theorycraft discussions about the old CC ring. Usage could look like this:
Another one could be spell reducing passive effect. This could be quite similar to lower city prayer book, just smaller amount and working all the time on all spells. This could allow approach to mana regeneration from the other side for example for magic dps classes. Not regenerate more but actually spend less on spells. Example:
Last thing I could thought of was some real usage of special effects on gloves for example. And this time usable in PvE. Shiny example might be this (bit overpowered, but its hard to measure it right without making it a "rating" system)
I know this isn't quite the discussion you're looking for but I really hope Blizzard know what they're doing with all the Haste they're adding into the game having seen it become the single most desired, overpowered stat in former MMO's.
I know this isn't quite the discussion you're looking for but I really hope Blizzard know what they're doing with all the Haste they're adding into the game having seen it become the single most desired, overpowered stat in former MMO's.
Feel free to present it here aswell, cause I fully agree with you (not that I saw it destroy some MMO, but rather with the fact that they have to be carefull with it).
I would think they'd put unique, and moderately powerful effects on belts, before they put them on Gloves.
But then I see the Rogue arena gloves, which essentially represent a completely new Talent. If that isn't unique and powerful, I don't know what is.
Whatever happened to that Blue post stating that they want to keep belts the way they are, unable to be enchanted, no "buckles", etc.? I seem to recall the statement being something along the lines of "The belt slot represents a piece of armor that allows the designers to implement exciting, new, and possibly powerful Use:/Equip: effects into the game"
When we saw that plate belt from BT (the one with the haste rating), I immediately thought of the aforementioned post, as well as all the craftables belts, currently not in-game, that require Primal Nethers. It was nice to see Belt of the Long Road show it's face on PTR, and hopefully we'll see the others that have been in the database, very soon.
Well it certainly didn't destroy EQ, but since high amounts of haste was introduced so early into the game (i.e. release), haste became a new standard for gear that had no where to go, so they mostly stopped upgrading it after 36% was what everyone had, then 41%, then after a few years, 46% haste. The only problem really is it wasn't introduced as a natural progression of gear, it was just too much too soon, which leads to encounter design difficulties, class design itemization crutches and the like.
Well it certainly didn't destroy EQ, but since high amounts of haste was introduced so early into the game (i.e. release), haste became a new standard for gear that had no where to go, so they mostly stopped upgrading it after 36% was what everyone had, then 41%, then after a few years, 46% haste. The only problem really is it wasn't introduced as a natural progression of gear, it was just too much too soon, which leads to encounter design difficulties, class design itemization crutches and the like.
Not to sound cynical, as that is not my intent, but using the rating system they can ensure that with each expansion we have to regear completely just to retain our relative level of power. We'll never actually achieve a god like status as our levels increase and new gear becomes available. Item budgets and the new gear curve will basically force a reset on gear with each successive expansion, with the players being on the precipice of overpoweredness with the pinnacle of gear from the previous.
Also, I was having the discussion earlier about weapon skill with a friend and neither of us were exactly sure what it did. The last I had heard it was just a % of crit rating bonus vs higher level mobs.
The rating system only works as a limitation to player power with level increases. Not every expansion will necessarily have a level cap increase, or rather, I'd be surprised if every expansion did. Many MMOs don't have a level increase every expansion anyway.
Honestly, I prefer not having to relevel every expansion, and it keeps large segments of content from being rendered useless. If we stayed 70 say, through Northrend for example, then all the TBC raid content could still be useful to guilds who aren't at the pinnacle of progression. If they add another 10 levels, TBC raiding zones will be like Naxx - if you were there at the time, you raided it and it was fun and all, but largely unconquered by most people who raid. It would also provide a meaningful progression if content had to be done in a linear fashion, rather than greens just pissing on gear you got only months before.
It would also be good for Blizzard to open up alternative methods of increasing player power beyond just levels and itemization. People can complain about AA now, but it was one of my favorite things about EQ.
Another one could be spell reducing passive effect. This could be quite similar to lower city prayer book, just smaller amount and working all the time on all spells. This could allow approach to mana regeneration from the other side for example for magic dps classes. Not regenerate more but actually spend less on spells. Example:
This was actually a stat on a few items at launch, specifically the Spirit of Aquementas and the Choker of Enlightenment. Both used to have a -25 mana cost to spells equip effect, rather than their current spell power bonuses.
They were seriously nerfed in an early patch, mainly due to the fact that casting spells with no mana cost does not place you in the 5 second rule with regards to mana regen. Also, almost all raiding mages at that time were using Spirit of Aquementas, which is especially telling when you consider the near total lack of caster one hand weapons prior to MC.
I'm liking where Blizzard is going with the +haste found on new gear and I do like your ideas of -mana on items (much like that old offhand from Un'Goro, its name escapes me at the moment), however, I'd like to see "Use" effects on belts or wrists or perhaps even head item slots.
Maybe:
Use: Increases Speed by 30% for 10 seconds and increases spell damage done by 47.
Something along those lines to give a little more interest, I've always been a fan of clickable item buffs.
There are plenty of unique effects in the game they are typically slapped on items that would be going in a trinket slot. I enjoy the haste rating, it is far more interesting than the new spell penetration and +hit.
An interesting change would be haste rating to specific schools of magic which could allow a larger budget for haste, or a effect that would reduce the cooldown of specifc schools of magic.
Not all schools would get a huge benefit from it but I could find times when it would be useful to have a 15% reduced cooldown on specific abilities. WoW players are pretty damned inventive and can think out of the box to make use of about any effect an item has to offer so blizz has to think carefully about the future impact of any new itemization they implement. OTherwise they may have to go back and retune the items later when they become overused for specific encounters... Everything from Green Whelp Armor, to Tidal Charm to Luffa has been changed due to unique abilites they gave being used in a way that could be a little too useful.
It would also be good for Blizzard to open up alternative methods of increasing player power beyond just levels and itemization. People can complain about AA now, but it was one of my favorite things about EQ.
This is something that I wish was implemented in WoW. Maybe not the same exact system as EQ AAs, but at least something to do outside of getting new gear that can improve your character. They'd have to be minor upgrades so content wouldn't be trivial with below-par gear, but still things that would be worthwhile to do. I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of class-specific quest chains similar to the hunter and priest weapons from pre-BC, with maybe the reward as a unique ability rather than a piece of gear that will be swiftly rendered useless.
Yea, I agree that it's nice to see some new kinds of modifiers becoming more common. Honestly, though, I think to some extent new ones would be redundant... a flat -%mana cost rating, for example, wouldn't add any depth to itemization beyond making calculations on how to gear up efficiently more difficult. Even some existing stats don't really add anything... spell hit comes to mind.
Spell haste, on the other hand, does have the potential to affect playstyle and whatnot, so I welcome its inclusion. Of course, the worry always has been that if there are a lot of different stats to maximize over, there might be a combination of them that simply blows all the others away, and that would be bad... however, this scenario isn't the case yet.
Personally, I'd like to see a lot more items with unique little frills, like trinkets have. Or maybe items with more metagem slots and a much wider variety of metagems available. More customization would be nice as long as this customization is actually meaningful and not game-breaking.
I like melee and spell haste on items; if those stats got out of hard, the devs can increase the amount of haste rating needed for 1% haste increase.
AAs would be bad for WoW, since it is meant to be a causal-friendly game.
I also would like to see more on-use item buffs. There are not many in-game (one I can think of is the Tier 2 Armorsmithing chest), and there are a lot of fun buffs that could be added.
They seem to do this every major patch, at least from a caster POV. From when I started playing, back in April '05, they threw in the FSR (around 2 weeks after I started playing, which essentially introduced mp5 as a useful stat!), with ZG they added spell hit, with AQ they added spell penetration, I can't think of anything special that came with Naxx (GOOD ITEMISATION?!), in TBC they added spell haste on a proc on specific items (Quag's Eye, Blade of Wizardry) and now they're adding passive spell haste. Oh and they've added +spell damage/healing proccing on non-trinket items (e.g. that Robe off Nightbane that I forget the name of).
There's nothing I would like more than the reintroduction of the old Mystical Skyfire Diamond proc (2% chance of instant-cast). You don't know the meaning of true power until you've insta-cast a Soul Fire crit in someone's face for 6k. Granted its overpowered when it procs, but DAAAYUM its fun.
Out of curiosity, what have they given physical DPS since that time? All I can think of is this new, permanent 'armour ignoring' ability on certain items. Since forever hasn't it just been 'stack as much strength/agility/crit/hit/attack power as you can get rawwwrrr!!!'?
There's always free cheese in the mouse traps, but the mice there ain't happy.
AAs would be bad for WoW, since it is meant to be a causal-friendly game.
I don't see how AA's would be bad for WoW.
It would give the casuals yet something else they could do in their spare time that advances their character. You didn't raid for AA's in EQ, you grouped or solo'd.
In fact it would give everyone something to do in their spare time.
However, I'd love to see how Blizzard would try designing encounters around AA's + Talent Specs.
As an ex-raider who only really does heroics and 5 mans these days on various characters I'd hate to see new 5 man content become "Need shaman with 5/5 improved canni".
Alternate Advancement abilities. Increases to character stats/abilities that you got through XP. You could start allocating a % of your xp gained at L50, but in general, it was a way to continue character progression once at max level. There was a cap on the ranks of each one, but each expansion added new ones so almost nobody was ever capped out. (It could be a life-consuming treadmill...)
Yea the downside of AA is eventually they become standard, and people who apply to guilds without X AA ability is at a disadvantage significantly, and if you hadn't been playing for a long time it would take you longer to catch up.
Of course, getting AA wasn't hard with a good group, and with the current attunement trend, its not something that would be truly out of hand I think. Also it changes over time as you gained more exp, AA was a lot easier to come by. Even now I think currently an AA point with a barely good group takes about 15-20 minutes.
EQ went a bit overboard with it I think, as there were so many abilities, but to be honest if you just played the game you had the AA worth having. What was cool about AA was there was a whole lot of nifty abilities/mods you could get for your character and it really helps the "I got nothing to do outside raiding" problem. I'm basically where I was pre expansion. I don't need any rep. I don't need badges of justice. I can run heroics to get nethers to sell crafted items, but I have a lot of money and I'm not going to be hurting for money in the forseeable future, so I'd like to have ANY reason to group.
And honestly, I didn't even try that hard to max out my reps or anything, just through natural play of the game I got everything I needed already, and I am sure countless people are basically in the same position as I am.
The first released AA's came in the 4th expansion of EQ, and some of the more basic ones were slightly faster runspeed, longer air supply for swimming, slight buffs to your str/stam/etc. Towards the end, yeah some of the AAs did get out of hand. The difference between a tank with 500+ (or even 1000+) AAs and a tank who had just finished leveling and had 0 was astronomical. I don't think there should be such a huge benefit from something like this in WoW, but it would be nice if there was *something*. It's kinda disheartening to know someone can roll a warlock twink, spend 5k gold on crafted gear at 70, and do 95% of the DPS as an end-game raiding warlock right now.
Alternate Advancement abilities. Increases to character stats/abilities that you got through XP. You could start allocating a % of your xp gained at L50, but in general, it was a way to continue character progression once at max level. There was a cap on the ranks of each one, but each expansion added new ones so almost nobody was ever capped out. (It could be a life-consuming treadmill...)
Honestly this isn't really true. For most classes maybe 1/3rd of all AAs were really necessary, the rest were basically what you filled out because you had nothing better to spend the points on. By the time I quit EQ I had been putting points in basic stats/resist increases, had already spent points on the shittier AAs which had a decidedly smaller impact. Even when I tried the game again, just playing the game on WoW raid offdays, I got pretty much all the relevant AA within a few weeks of again, just playing the game for a few hours a week. No special grinding effort, far from life consuming.
And besides, WoW isn't EQ. They could easily have an AA system that isn't just a massive exp grind. EQ2s AA system had to do with basically hitting points of interest gives you exp, you get a point, and it caps out. Visit a dungeon/zone/location, get some AA. Do certain quests, get some AA. Kill a raid boss or even a exp group boss, get some AA. While I think EQ2s system was slightly cumbersome I liked how that exp was gained because it wasn't a deliberate grind. It was basically a side reward for what you would already be doing in the game anyway.
05/10/07, 1:08 PM
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