My guild is currently learning Lurker Below, tonight was my first night ever trying him and one thing occured to me twice...
Lurker geyser'ed me, knocking me into the water, imediately before he did his spout, my question is how can I avoid this? Common sense told me to just stay down there and pray i can live through the fish with a pot and healthstone, however that was never the case, I would die before the spout would pass me and I would look like garbage.
Some people told me limited invuln pots would work however I wanted to double check and see if there was anything else i could do like just head for the middle and pray or anything of the sort.
Limited invuln pots would obviously work to make fish stop eating you. Or just scald the water and learn the fight that way, since it's practically mandatory in 2.1.
PS: Update your profile -- you have a guild as per your post....
I just finished running a few searches on the forums about Lurker and was about 10 seconds from making a post about him myself - thus I shall post my questions here.
We have now had 2 nights on him, and keep having a few problems. For starters, we boil the water by clearing the packs first. From the first time we tried this it seemed much easier then running around the spout idea - as well as the fact that next patch it is basically forcing you do to it this way.
We always seem to have the adds bugging out/evading or Lurker himself chain spouting non-stop. We have one Mage each platform and normally run with 2 hunters. The MT takes one of the Guardians and tanks it while melee DPS it, one hunter on each platform traps one and the extra Mage sheeps one. The other two Mages sheep the extra guardians and the MT tanks them one by one.
We have an OT assigned to each platform, their job is to TAUNT the incoming Guardian so it DOESN'T evade onto a Healer (normally) on spawn and thus be unsheepable - then the Mage sheeps it and the tank jumps across to his platform to tank the other ranged add.
This generally works ok, but still often one or more of the adds bug out - what kind of strats do others use to make sure this doesn't happen?
When we get all adds under control and none of them bug out - its all good, we can DPS them fast enough and have them down before Lurker emerges. But occasionally if some melee die or one of the adds evade and doesn't get killed in time Lurker bugs out and chain spouts non-stop. Do others experience this? Is this actually intended so you HAVE to kill the adds before he emerges or else he has some sort of psuedo enrage (chain spout)?
"Being a leader is not a position of power. It is a position of service." ~ Barestomper
Our healers are all on the inner ring, except shadow priests, so evading has never been an issue. We stack the South and East (SEish, whatever) platforms with heavy ranged DPS, and give the north 2-3 DPS, if that. We sheep the north Guardian, and OT the other two actively in the SE corner, next to each other. Rogues start on the Guardians (other melee like ferals or DPS warriors hop across to the S/E platforms and Swipe/Whirlwind away to help there at first). The S and E platforms kill both their Ambushers, then focus on the Guardians. When one dies, we break the sheep on the third and drag it to the same spot. In the meantime, the DPS-light north platform has the sole task of killing its two Ambushers before Lurker returns. The key point here is that no DPS is wasted -- ranged on both S and E can reach the Guardians where they are tanked, and N is a self-sufficient entity without excess DPS.
As for him freaking out when he spouts, no one knows if it's intended. If you have a Guardian still up when he's about to surface, sheep it and keep it sheeped until after his Spout. This will prevent him from freaking out.
We have had adds up several time when he emerges, and never had chain spouts because of it, not that I can recall at least. We have always had at least two hunters to trap and despawn their adds, with ranged nailing the other platforms, while the MT and two offtanks grab the three melees. I dont think we have had evade issues with the melee ones, but I dont really notice it being a healer. I feel that leaving the melees to be CCed/attempted to be despawned via evading is too dangerous due to the amount of damage they can do, with the potential of one shotting healers etc.
I think having the tanks exactly in positions to taunt the melee mobs as soon as they hit the main platform is probably the safest all round method of handling the add phase.
Edit @ Praetorian:I remembered coming in one day and killing Lurker with no boiling water, simply because there were no pumping station packs to kill. *shrugs* If that's not the case, then I'll simply chalk it up to bad memory. Looks like I was worrying for nothing. :P
And to make sure this isn't completely off topic: In terms of add control, we have one or two hunters taking over one or two islands depending on how many hunters we have that day. We actually take a fairly unconventional approach to the adds, with rogues jumping across to the closest island (the one that you can actually jump to if you have cheetah or sprint) and using BF to take both adds down at once. Our MT tanks the first melee, our bear druid tanks the second, and we have a paladin waiting at the third to use HoJ(I think that was it... the one that stuns for 6 seconds) to give the mages time to sheep it without danger of being cleaved. Ranged focus on the melee one at a time; rogues generally make it back across in time to contribute on DPSing the second and third melee.
Oh, and another thing, the Lurker has a high chance of doing his crazy spout if there are naga still up and actively attacking when he comes up. If you can't finish the last add by the time he finishes the casting for his spout, your best chance is to fear it (since sheep won't work on a mob that's probably dotted to high heaven).
Last edited by LiteSabre : 05/20/07 at 11:13 PM.
Reason: Question answered
Thanks for the replies, we are going to boil the water tomorrow so I shouldn't worry I just wanted to know for future reference if we weren't going to boil the water. Mainly just frustration, new guild new stress heh...
I picked up 20 limited invuln pots and i'll just give it a go, also updated my WoW profile on here, didn't really think much of it cause i rarely post
Edit to answer some questions on adds: What I saw was a lot of our mages were PoM Polly'ing the adds or just always on the ball, the warrior made his way to the platform and tanked one while we had a holy priest mind control another add, burning them down was no problem at all with 3 ranged dps (at least where I was) Basically it comes down to your mages being on the ball and your dps hiting hard enough to burn them down and not pull aggro
Limited invuln pots would obviously work to make fish stop eating you. Or just scald the water and learn the fight that way, since it's practically mandatory in 2.1.
PS: Update your profile -- you have a guild as per your post....
What was changed in 2.1? We're focusing on Morogrim atm but we have made a few pulls on Lurker, and we've been doing it with fishes.
As for him freaking out when he spouts, no one knows if it's intended. If you have a Guardian still up when he's about to surface, sheep it and keep it sheeped until after his Spout. This will prevent him from freaking out.
We've had him freak out with zero adds up and none of the adds despawned. We've also had him freak out on the third spout overall (second spout of his second up-phase). The freakouts also don't always happen immediately. The Luker has gone about 25% of the way before deciding to go crazy.
Yeah, what we'd usually see would be a quarter-cycle followed by him spazzing out.
But in my experience it has happened 100% of the time we have an unpoly'd Guardian alive as he starts to Spout, even if the Guardian dies a second later, and 0% of the time when we have nothing up.
I don't have screenshots to prove it, but has anyone else experienced and/or know why scalding water hits hunter pets for 1200 and consistently 1500 damage?
We had what Failure dubbed a "disco spout" today, first time I'd seen it. It happened while we were finishing off the last Guardian, who had about 50% health when Lurker popped back up. The same situation's happened before without a disco spout, so it might be one of those "all squares are rectangles, not all rectangles are squares" things.
Two other observations:
1) The human capacity to die to Water Spout boggles the mind. Everyone messes up occasionally, but Paladins dying to it 4 pulls in a row with their bubbles available...
2) With 6 people fishing, he took 17 minutes to spawn for one attempt. Had to re-do Pally buffs, and I began to sing a sea shanty (titled "Whiskey Johnny") over vent. I swear to God, as soon as I finished the third verse he spawned.
The spawn rate can really suck - I wish it gave up more then Sagefish. I really like the encounter - has a C'Thun esque feel to it where it weeds out those who can do their job but also be aware of their surroundings and able to react to it. We still get people dying on the spout - but normally its on the rare occasion when its right before and/or right after submerge.
I will try some of the suggestions here, because the only thing holding us back atm is the occasional bugged add which leads to the bugged Lurker which leads to the wipe. Also teaching some of our players to play.
"Being a leader is not a position of power. It is a position of service." ~ Barestomper
We've had him go spout crazy when absolutely no adds were up and they'd all been dead for a decent amount of time. Had it happen two attempts in a row, and then not at all the 3rd - so really it's hard to say what causes it.
One amusing thing is that if you completely ignore the ambushers (and don't have anyone on their platform), they just stand there and do nothing. And if the ambushers are still up from the phase before, the new ones don't spawn. So you just end up with some ambushers standing around on the platform the whole fight. (note: I only have first hand experience with the left set of platforms, facing the MT spot)
I don't have screenshots to prove it, but has anyone else experienced and/or know why scalding water hits hunter pets for 1200 and consistently 1500 damage?
Scalding Water is a debuff applied to yourself that makes you do damage to yourself. So any talent/mod that would increase/decrease damage done will affect it. 1200 sounds like 5/5 Unleashed Fury. 1500 would sound like Beastial Wrath except I would have thought that would stack with Fury. Other various classes take extra damage too, I believe Humanoid Slaying will affect hunters and Murder on rogues.
The spawn rate can really suck - I wish it gave up more then Sagefish. I really like the encounter - has a C'Thun esque feel to it where it weeds out those who can do their job but also be aware of their surroundings and able to react to it. We still get people dying on the spout - but normally its on the rare occasion when its right before and/or right after submerge.
I will try some of the suggestions here, because the only thing holding us back atm is the occasional bugged add which leads to the bugged Lurker which leads to the wipe. Also teaching some of our players to play.
The spout is on a very predictable cooldown. There are always two spouts between add phases, the first spout is always DIRECTLY following the add phase, with the second spout roughly 35-45 seconds after the first ends. Not sure how you have people die on rare occassions when it follows a submerge - it ALWAYS follows the submerge.
Imo the spout bugging out is usually linked to overaggro. The fight works like Ragnaros, there's no ranged aggro. As long as you are not in melee range, you can go all out on him. If a guy that's has overaggroed the MT then goes into melee range to run the circle during spout, he freaks out and does the disco spout. After all he starts the spout on highest in aggro, so it seems kinda logical that this could be related.
We've had that happen several times and since some time we tell all dps to be at least 5% below the MT on KTM. As long as people don't die, you can go on infinitely in this fight anyway. We've never had the 'disco spout' happen since we are doing this. I'd guess the kill sample is about 10-12 for us (didn't unlock the console and respawned a few times), it might be still too small but if you have problems with it, you might wanna give it a try and see if it happens, if your dps chills a bit.
Oh and @disco-spout being linked to alive guardians:
We had a melee add alive quite often and we never sheeped it. Our tank kited it the whole circle and we dpsed it during the spout. Sometimes it died during it, sometimes it died right after. I think that happened at least 5-6 times and we never had spout bugging out while an add was up.
As we've had the 'Disco Spout' many many times the past couple of nights, I was brainstorming whether it may be related to having ranged aggro over melee aggro as well. We had a pull where the MT died during phase 2 and our druid OT was not in melee range when he emerged (and of course no one else in melee because of whirl) and we got the disco spout.
As it seems that disco spouts means he's in normal single target mode while spouting it isn't too far off base to imagine that it could be related to ranged threat being much higher than melee threat. The only problem with this is that our mages/locks are going all out for 90% of phase 2, and they are commonly above the MT's threat for the second spout of any phase 1. Has anyone had the disco problem during the second spout of a phase to debunk or prove that this could be possible?
Our 15 kills worth of experience is pretty much what was already posted. Guardian up = very likely to disco spout, no guardian up = always normal spout. And no, never seen a second spout "freakout".
Our line of thought was to get EVERYONE out of melee range when he re-emerges, to ensure MT grabs him first. We discounted any threat of ranged dpsers ( one on platform overagroing) and put it down to melee dps/anyone on inner circle that arent the MT grabbing agro while he is spouting immediately after he emerges.
(there was also one idea that anybody melee dieing while the sprout is taking place was triggering the disco spout..could be nothing tho)
in case it helps in anyway, see our first kill here. I am quite proud of my jumping tactic :p
05/20/07, 10:27 PM
