◊ Praetorian

A year ago, I started the "Sustained DPS" thread. It came right after our first Patchwerk kill, as I started thinking about what DMs on Patchwerk looked like, and how "pure" a test of different players', classes', and specs' raw DPS potential the fight was. I wondered what other guilds' DMs looked like. Over time, it became a useful tool for guilds to compare against each other as a benchmark and and try to figure out how they measured up, and where there was room for improvement.

In conjunction with the Armory, it was a useful to tool to look up the specs/gear of the people you saw dominating other guilds' DMs. It became quickly apparent that 10/48/3 was THE mage spec, for example, and that tailors were the ones dominating early DMs and continuing to perform strongly even through the present date.

However, the old Sustained DPS thread is now a mishmash of random screenshots, and a simple DM seems wholly inadequate for real analysis or learning. It doesn't say what group makeups were, whether players died early, whether they had specific roles that enhanced (AoE) or detracted from (CC) their DPS, and so forth. The fact that Rogue A does 950 DPS and Rogue B does 650 doesn't necessarily mean A's spec, gear, or skill are superior to B's if A was on the boss fulltime in a group with an enhancement shaman while B was running around interrupting adds without the same group support.

And so, we have this thread. WoW Web Stats (available at http://lossendil.fr/serendipity/ ) is an incredible tool. It offers a real look at the skill breakdowns, target selection, and crucially, the actions taken by a given player (was someone high DPS but sloppy about maximizing their DPS time? is a DPS difference explained not by gear but by the fact that one player got off 10 more casts of the same spell than another player, under the same conditions? etc.). A lot of guilds that I see with weak DPS have uniformly weak DPS, and I think the lack of contrast is what creates the problem. The lack of a reference point. If you had a mage that could do 900+ DPS every fight, you wouldn't have all your other mages struggling to break 600, because they'd be dominated so thoroughly on DMs that it would force them to say "wow, I'm really not doing this right, let me see what HE's doing, and copy it." But if there is no one to copy, everyone just kind of continues merrily along their way, not realizing their inefficiency.

There is a thread in the UI forum discussing technical aspects of WWS: Getting the most out of WoW Web Stats

This thread is for posting your own hosted (locally or at lossendil) WWS parses of fights, either as examples, but also hopefully in the context of asking for advice. I'd like this to be a thread where people can offer constructive criticism to help guilds out, while also learning in the process.

One word: Do not post sloppy WWS parses that include trash clearing, multiple boss attempts in one unseparated log, or otherwise obfuscate what really happened. They'll be deleted as they aren't constructive. Go to the UI forum thread and ask there if you need help getting a good parse.

And just to kick this off, here are a couple of random parses:

Gruul (5/24), with some DPS still sporting flasks from Vashj:
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=p635hap2anm3c

Morogrim (4/24), pre 2.1, largely unbuffed:
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=sw54zrlv2dwbw

 

• Gashloog

Looking at the Gruul kill, does Loderunner not use Death Wish or does WWS not report it because it's considered a debuff?

 

Dothorio

Your top mage on that Gruul kill has similar numbers to mine, except that what I do in 6-8 minutes only takes him four. I'm really at a loss about how to improve my dps for this fight; after looking at Stion's breakdown it looks like he does the exact same thing as me, stand on a safe spot and fireball.

J'adore quand un plan se déroule sans accroc

 

◊ Praetorian

Having checked the raw text log, it indeed is not reported since it's a debuff "Loderunner is afflicted by Death Wish."

 

• Arawethion

Well, here's a link to our WWS, to get started:
http://www.sigilguild.net/hamlet/WWS/wws-history/

I'll ask some particular questions when I think of them, but for now, I'll throw it out there because I'd simply like to compare with others at a similar point in progression (just starting SSC). We have both Naxx-experienced members and brand new members.

Carrot Cake Soup is like the taste of watching girls make out.

 

• Arawethion

Does anyone want to try suggesting to Lossendil that he add debuffs as well (in the same format that buffs are currently listed)? It's the only major information that currently isn't included.

Carrot Cake Soup is like the taste of watching girls make out.

 

panny

is it such an issue for a WWS to contain multiple attempts? The verison hosted on lossendil's site allows you to seperate fights out easily.

 

• Neera

Our Morogrim kill (first time): http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...s&s=9886,10561

A recent Magtheridon kill: http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...xo&s=3331,3977

 

◊ Praetorian

No, if you can break it down into the individual fights, that's perfectly fine.

 

◊ Kyth

None of your warlocks use CoS? That seems a bit odd.

 

• Arawethion

Especially in a raid with no Mages . . .

Carrot Cake Soup is like the taste of watching girls make out.

 

Grimmlokk

Gruul Kill last week before patch. No special buffing/pots. Really wanted it just to compare to this week, but I'm gonna miss today's raid so having someone else gets me a log. Anonymous to protect the innocent, top rogue is me(Dragonmaw/Latro's).

 

Osse

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=tfwwmzazwojz3

Fathom-Lord, a bit messy and wasnt focused that much.

Got mana leeching arrow twice in the start and didnt even notice them till I had 1k mana and hunter add was at 75%, drank normal pot instead of fel mana and lost a lot of dps there.

After hunter and shammy add I fd drank up, same after the caster add so lost dps there again.

At Fathom himself I was out of range for GoA for about half of the fight as shammy stood far away...

Group buffs I had was GoA (resto shammy) and LotP.

Could probably break 1.5k easily with proper group buffs (4 hunters and shadowpriest :P) and paying attention to the fight.

Raptor strike was on earthbind totem and serpent sting was a misclick. :p

Although.. with that raid improving myself isnt the most important thing seeing the gab between me and second.

Thought I was doing close to nothing to the totems with rank 1 multi-shot and a few steady shots but....

Osse Spitfire Totem 60,525
Chianna Spitfire Totem 44,381
Vanyon Spitfire Totem 35,877

 

Cel

Without names, we can't use the Armory to check specs and such of people. I suppose if someone didn't want their name used in the parse, you could use a "Search and Replace" function in notepad++ or some such.

"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell

Alpha is recruiting... go go.

 

Grimmlokk

True. Fuck em real one up now=P

 

Ossy

http://www.partyjouren.se/wow/wws-history/

Thats our history page. I kinda suck at remembering to turn logging on tho so missing most fights.

 

cipro

our vashj kill yesterday

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...&s=13935,14605

 

• Freddie

Our Magtheridon kill last night. DPS seems a lot lower than other parses posted :-|

http://www.madcowdisease.org/stuff/wws-20070527-1935/

 

Osse

There's no pets merged.

And please, tell your hunters to stop using serpent sting, its horrible.

Also, everything is immune to silencing shot in Mag fight.

Dmg. Out Total % Hits Avg Max Ticks Avg Max Crits
Aimed Shot 15,026 8 % 9 1346 2411 1

Aimed shot should only be used when you pull stuff with misdirection.

Focusing more on just doing auto and steady would increase dps by a lot. (hundreds)

 

• Cryic

A few thoughts on this thread. Lossendil's current free hosted version only states the parse will be saved for 15 or 30 days (I forget which). They are currently being saved for much longer, but some of these post may become meaningless in the near future.

If you are going to upload to the hosted version, make sure to have your guild name and server on the Java App. This will enable the "View SoandSo's armory link".

Lossendil also mentioned that he will require people to register at his site before uploading logs soon. There's a spot in the Java app to enter your username and password, you might want to go ahead and start doing this. A side effect is that you can then view all the parses you've uploaded when you sign-in to his site.

And not for nothing, Lossendil has been extemely helpful by adding features. I asked for the Death Replay and the Armory Link and he had them in within a week.

And finally, one of the neat fetures is the ability on Lossendils site to compare overall raid dps to all parses uploaded. A good example is Cipro's link above is the second highest raid dps on Lady Vashj, at 9,777. The top being 10,325 with 5 warlocks a rogue who averaged 1,260 dps The bad part being that it's anonymous when using the web search.

 

• Freddie

Ah. Merged Boogs' pet now, and Scryder didn't seem to have one out at all (?). The Aimed Shot was most likely on the initial Mag misdirect, though I would have to ask.

 

Osse

Scryder used 10 aimed shots and 10 serpent stings though, I would be pretty worried about his/her knockledge about the class if I was in the guild.

Also.. Mag as a hunter and not using pet in phase two is like running with one leg.

 

Savos

Is there anything around comparable to WWS that helps individual classes if you give it a corresponding combat log?

I'd like to have something that shows skill usage (specifically for a warrior) as a function of time instead of X number of shield slams (y miss/dodge/parry) etc like currently.

Like use of global cooldown, keeping (de)buffs active. I know sunder won't work correctly but the rest of the things will.

 

Amarilia

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...&s=3092,3683&m

Our second void reaver kill.

Remarkable is the low performance of our affliction warlocks. Most of the fights eiddur and our spriest funny are on par with me but on void reaver they seemed to be way more treathcapped. Two invisibilitys really helped a lot of c.

The remark that most of these posts will become useless after 15 days is very valid. This was my first night with wws however, I'll try to get it on our own server next time.

 

Akhtal