Thanks for the comments guys. I'll try to pass them on.

Xerophyte: What kind of positioning do you have for Morogrim? We're generally using the diagram from Bosskiller's, which basically has the tank standing at the entrance of the hallway to FLK. I don't see how Varien(prot paladin) could position himself out of range of watery grave and still get aggro from the murlocs coming in from that hallway.

Thanks again for the help guys!

Morogrim at the FLK tunnel, range dps + healers at the top of the ramp and Murloc tank in the watery graves, >40 yards from Morogrim but well in healing range of the dps. Aggros murlocs by healing people up from Earthquake with Righteous Fury up. It might possibly be a bit harder to pull off for a protadin as his heals are smaller, we haven't tried, but it shouldn't be that bad and you wont randomly wipe 1 out of 2 attempts or so...

We never bothered moving our paladin tank out of the way of the watery graves. Paladin's can bubble out of graves and if you get really unlucky enough to get 2 graves on the pally tank right as murlocs are coming, have a warrior/feral druid Challanging should (and shield wall if really necissary) the murlocs. Moving the point of AoE away from Morogrim removes all the dps that the AoEs can do and further limites the dps your ranged can do inbetween murloc waves. If you are having a hard time killing Morogrim within a reasonable time (not that there is an enrage, but the longer you take the bigger the chance of loseing people) I suggest AoEing on top of the boss.

All I really looked at when I opened that WWS was the DPS of your ranged. No ranged class should be doing 500dps on a fight where you are not limited by threat.

Wow Web Stats

That was our most receint lurker kill and we did it in 7 minutes. Probably a large gear disparity but your range should be doing signifigantly more damage. Have your hunters put their pets on the center island and have them put them on stay near the outside of the ring. Hunter pets dont get gibbed by the spout anymore so they will do great. Just tell them to go all out all the time because as long as they are never in melee range and there is a tank there to keep his hate you can not over agro on this fight.

If you look at our WWS our lowest DPS people are a druid in tank gear(who is doing more DPS than everyone in your raid minus your top 3) and our Kara geared players/casuals. I dont have the time to go sorting through your WWS to look at your raid synergy or player spec's but i would encourage you to look around at some Lurker WWS parses and show them to your guild mates so they can see what other people are doing differently and encourange PVE spec's.

Thanks for the suggestions; I didn't even know about cycles until you posted. Here is last nights run, after a few changes in my spec, and now using 2s5r.

I apologize for the slow response. I caught a bad case of the flu and was put out of commission for a while.

DeeNogger, I appreciate your response. Shadow Priests are something I do not have much knowledge on concerning which stats and spells are most efficient to use. I know they are a good mana battery along with having good dps, and that is about all.

Midnight, thank you for your input. I've read up a bit on shot rotations myself, so I know what you're talking about there. As for the trap talents, they're like that because our raid leaders like to use lots of traps during KZ farming, and not many people in our guild are the type willing to respec twice or more a week. Due to a couple situations too long to explain, making rotations more efficient, short of respecing to BM, may be difficult. I do appreciate your advice though.

Dominus, as far as windfury goes, I haven't had a lot of luck. Here's a good example of the idiocy I get every time I try to explain why windfury gives rogues more benefit than GoA. I have a hard time getting WF to be dropped with a FOUR rogue group, and it's nearly impossible if theres a single druid or hunter in the group. Another big problem for me, is one of the older guild members who seems knowledgeable at a glance, is a perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger Effect. Apparently I'm just a selfish rogue who wants to see E-Peen big numbers. Sorry about the mini-rant. Anyway, to get back on track, Arthamus is a new rogue, so I haven't had a lot of time to observe him, but the fact that he sinister strikes with daggers, it's so bad, I don't even know how to explain how that makes me feel. Daelenn is the guild leader and he's a great guy, but some of the comments he has made about the rogue class just make me want to cry. It was hard enough convincing him to spec out of lol-step into mut to start with, because somehow sub "adds more raid utility" than just DPS. I am Sennyo, and plan to spec into 11/27/23 as soon as I get s2 sword main-hand. Sinister strikes were mainly due to massive cave-ins coving the entire backside of Gruul. Main-hand and off-hand were unintentionally switched, which I covered in the initial post. I understand use of a fast off-hand. I used a Warp Splinter's Thorn off-hand for quite some time and passed on Blade of the Unrequited, because it would have been an overall DPS loss. I will admit my performance was a bit sloppy though. I received an important phone call I had to deal with mid-raid, which led me to only focus half as much on the fight as I should have. I really feel like an idiot for not noticing my dagger icons were reversed when applying poisons, oh well.

As for the other 2 rogues, Raziel doesn't raid on his rogue unless we are only farming KZ. His main is a hunter, which he brings to all new content. Filchet doesn't raid too much with us either. That is his main, however he has this strange problem with "cookie cutter" specs, which really makes absolutely no sense. He's a good guy, but on fights where our dps matters, most new content, he doesn't get a lot of priority.

Our guild is a bit more casual, so we don't kick people for not having the most ideal spec. I cry over how bad some specs are though. I do try to talk to people one on one to help their performance, despite not being in leadership; so I do appreciate all input on performance. I would appreciate some input on our healers and tanks if possible, as I don't have a firm enough grasp on the mechanics of those classes to tell much from a WWS report. I know pretty much what is going right and wrong with our mages and locks though.

If you look at the entire log for Rah's death you get:

This is very unlikely to be a freak coincidence, Rah was almost certainly the target of the 5th enfeeble, which can happen if someone is above him in threat but below the aggro gain threshold. The likely reason for him not showing up is because the parser was not in range for debuff events, possibly also because of lag causing the lethal hit and the enfeeble to seemingly happen in reverse order for the parser's client.

I considered the possibility before, and it must be the case that Rah was enfeebled (though I can't imagine that anyone was even close on the threat list), but wouldn't it still show up in the combat log somewhere? Combat log range is not an issue (it's my log), and I'm aware of the out-of-order nature of events. I've just never seen anything remotely like this happen, and the combat log is no help. I don't care if the combat log isn't all in chronological order, but for it to completely leave out important events is just ridiculous.

In the last 7 seconds of Rah's life he took 12749 damage and got healed for 10034. I think your paladin tank just got rolled by pure damage. The last hit for 4k+ makes me think his hp was just barely high enough not to trigger the paladin mini defensive stance. The log stays bad the further up you go. He was taking more damage then was getting healed for.

Here is my guild's SSC/TK run from Tuesday: Wow Web Stats

Could I get some critiques? I'll take anything about the raid as a whole and I'm also looking for some personal critiques. Some notes: The hunters and melee are on add duty in the Al'ar fight so that's why our dps time is so low. Also, on the Lurker fight, I'm not sure that my pet was actually attacking the whole time, even though I left him on the center ring. I went large chunks of the fight without seeing FI.

If you look at the mana gains from Spiritual Attunement you can see when the paladin tank gets topped off (Spiritual Attunement gives no mana for overheals, so if he gets healed for 470 but only gets 36 mana back, then he was topped off. Doing this and then going through step-by-step looking at damage taken vs heals, the tank was topped off (at full life) by the lifebloom tick right before the attack that appears to have killed him. Unless you're suggesting they tanked prince with someone who has < 4000 HP, trying to blame the healing / damage taken by the tank is completely wrong.

Looks to me like it's just an example of the "tank enfeeble" bug that doesn't show up in the log where your tank just gets instagibbed for no discernible reason (most often, from what I remember, when he enfeebles during or near a phase transition).

My guild had our first night of Morogrim attempts tonight. We had 4 actual attempts - tried something different that didn't work in the 3rd - and got him below 1% in the 4th. Pretty frustrating, considering trash respawned and we had to call the raid after.

I'm just looking for any type of feedback I can get about anyone, myself included. Our raids tend to be pretty melee-heavy (at least at the top of the damage charts), but our ranged DPS has definitely been improving over the past few weeks (in which we've had our first kills of Hydross and Solarian). Since I'm pretty clueless when it comes to casters, some help regarding their performance (and how they can improve it) would be most helpful. I got a lot of great feedback the last time I made a post in this thread, so I figured I would do it again. Thanks!

edit: I wasn't very specific regarding the kind of help I was looking for, so I tried to get that in here.

I've recently moved from a guild that was clearing only VR and Lurker in the T5 instances, to a guild that is 3/4 in TK and 5/6 in SSC. Due to this I am slightly under-geared compared to the rest of the locks and casters in this new guild, and I'd like some personal critiques. Here's the links for our SSC clear-to-Vashj last weekend:

Hydross, Lurker, Morogrim, Karathress
Leotheras & Vashj Attempts
Vashj Attempts, round 2

Any insight you can provide on ways to up my DPS, or even any tips on the Vashj fight, would be extremely helpful.

I'm always on CoS (4-5 locks, 1-2 spriests and 1 boomkin vs 2-3 mages), Jetlock usually picks up CoE and the other two are on damage curses.

For Vashj, I was on elemental duty until the striders start popping, and then 100% on the striders, with a couple of dots tossed on the naja for kicks. Our biggest issue with Vashj right now is consistently getting to phase 3. Usually it's the striders that make or break our attempts, with the kiter (Damaa, hunter) dying or not being able to hold aggro off 4 locks going all out. Still, with 2 days of attempts under our hats, I think we're doing really well in consistently being able to get 3 of the shield generators down before all hell breaks loose.

Thanks for your time.

You have a lot of hit rating. It seems like that would mainly benefit your shadow bolts.
It looked like a bit less than 40% of your damage comes from shadow bolts.
Maybe gemming for spell damage is a better idea, or do you gain enough time from less dot recasting for it to be worth it?
Oh and the intensity instead of improved life tap but ionno.

Our first RoS kill, with final tick of of 3200, about half the raid surviving.

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My concern was on the parsing itself..

on the kill I think it should have

Essence of Suffering try 1(2.7M Dmg)
Essence of Desire try 1 (2.7M? Dmg)
Essence of Anger Death (3M Dmg)

but it seems to be pretty inconsistent (it doesnt show the essence of desire information on the killshot)


It shows the Essence of Anger kill, but I'd like to be able to see how we performed in phase2, since that seems to be the most dificult of the three phases, at least for us.

Bit OT with boss strategy talk, but couldn't resist replying since we had a similar problem that we managed to solve recently. To prevent aggro issues with Strider dps, have everyone in your strider team but the kiter (and eventually the person who casts slow, CoEx, etc) begin with fast dps on the Naga, delaying strider dps 5-10 more secs than they currently do. The effect of this strategy is twofold: one is that you will burn the Nagas down much faster, freeing up your naga team to help with elementals, and the other is that you will rarely overaggro the strider kiter. More than this, your strider dps team will always be doing effective dps on both nagas and striders, vs starting on striders earlier and having to hold back for fear of overaggro.

p.s. a well-timed MD on that first naga means that you can go all out on it! Just make sure the tanks are aware of who gets the MD so they aren't taunting.

As somebody who likes to reply to these types of things, I feel sorta unmotivated to help if you don't tell us what your problems are. I mean, you aren't posting here because you think you're awesome and want to show it off, you want help. So...what do you want help with? If you look in the thread, you'll see people who post WWS links and just ask "anything you can see that we need help with?" and about 50/50 if they get any replies, yet I think 99% of the people who actually post specific inquiries/problems get good help.

Anyway with that said..

Polkadots should try to raise his hit rating. Anything closer to 202 is better than what he has, which on armory shows 24.

He needs to enchant his stuff. I'm not sure if the stuff in armory is his raid gear, but he should enchant whatever he is bringing to raids, no matter if it's blue or purple. The stuff on the armory shows helm, shoulders, cloak, chest without enchants.

Azador is doing better, although he's not springing for the best enchants, his shoulders has the blue enchant and his legs do too. He definitely has better gear than Polkadots though.

edit: And somehow on Morogrim Azador threw out almost 4 times as many Seed of Corruptions as Polkadots. 358 vs 101.

Ok basically about 2 weeks ago we lost a really good warlock in our guild, Polka has stepped up to replace him and he literally hit 70 a day or two before his first raid with us. Obviously he is still working on his gear.

A bit of background on our guild:

We are quite casual, we spend 3 nights max a week on 25 man raids, and we have a few players that are not (in my opinion) performing to the best of their abilities.

I know my class well enough to know what I'm doing right or wrong (mostly I'm a lazy healer and use Flash Heal way too often) and can give a bit of advice to our other healers on what they are doing wrong such as not pre-casting and obvious massive overhealing where it is avoidable. What I'm really looking for is advice I can take back to our guild on other aspects of our performance such as DPS and tanking.

Our top two rogues, Psyco and Tyrunt, talk about how our MT (Toch) is shit. Now I haven't played a warrior so it would be good to find out if he really is shit or if they are just bitching because they can't go all out all the time.

Is our DPS substandard because of gear or because of skill? If it's skill, is it just natural intuition stuff or is it the basics such as "Warlock A" is using the wrong spells for his spec or "Hunter B" has a really shit shot rotation.

I found our latest WWS link here Wow Web Stats where we had some trouble on Moro and decided to skip him and go to FLK. Now we have trouble on Moro all the time, I think this is mostly an execution of the strategy problem, but also we seem to lose our MT a lot on that fight too so it could be a healer problem? (I'm on the graves and Pally tank so I wouldn't know the exact problem, sometimes people say it's that they get graved all at te same time which is bad luck but sometimes I look at our WWS and wonder WTF went wrong?)

I guess what I'm really asking is does anyone see any really glaring problems in what we are doing? People having the wrong priorities when it comes to gear? Bad spell/shot rotations?

We are currently on Vashj and have made some progress, after working on her for about 6-8 nights with a few attempts getting into phase 3, normally with about 5 or so dead to a Strider spawning on them or a Naga cleaving the melee on them or the strider kiter dieing and the strider running through the middle fearing everyone and causing general chaos. Here is the WWS from our last nigt on Vashj Wow Web Stats apparently there is information missing from that WWS, since the pally that does our WWS stands on one side of the platform in phase 2 and is out of range of the other side?

We've spent a grand total of 3 nights on Vashj, and got her to phase 3 a couple of times last night. Best attempt was our first breakthrough to phase 3, at 5%.

WWS for the night: Wow Web Stats

What areas could some of these people improve in?

No, Toch seems to be doing fine. His spec is good. Personally, I'd drop the 2 points from Imp Taunt and put it in Imp Heroic Strike for extra threat, but that's just me. He's keeping Heroic Strike Queued up. Looks like he's good an okay rotation. From looking at the actual logs, he probably has some room for improvement. It seems like he starts building aggro slowish. Starting out with HS rather than something like shield slam or revenge (or most likely, he's starting by sundering). Personally I always prefered to get a SS/revenge off then drop my sunders. His rotation could use some improvement, but it's not bad. Tell him to try a SS, Revenge, 2 Devestates rotation, and queue HS up after each one, and he'll see a little more oomph.

But I do see a discrepancy between certain fights. For example, on Fathomlord he do around 720 TPS. On Hydross and Lurker he looks like he was down a bit. It's hard to tell on trash, and it's possible he's not going all out. But I would tell your rogues to make sure they're watching omen, get subtlety to cloak if it's a huge issue (although that really shouldn't be necessary), and maybe putting feint back on their bars and using it might help.

I can't tell if his gear is an issue, since he seems to have logged out in his pvp/farming gear.

Here's a WWS from last night's Kael'thas - Wow Web Stats

Specifically, I'm looking at my dps on the Kael fight and wondering if there are ways I could improve as a 33/28 2h Slam warrior. Ignore the rest of the fights, I was prot spec through Solarian because our tankadin and feral druid were busy for the night; the tankadin came on for Kael, so I took 5 to go spec back to Arms before the pre-Kael trash. My dps is never going to be phenominally good because I'm also usually the primary raid leader, so I'm watching a number of other things, and that usually hurts my Slam timing, but any criticism would be welcome.

Also, any feedback on the hunter Bovii would be welcome too. He's a fairly recent recruit, somewhat behind us in gear (although catching up quickly), and last night was his second time at Kael, first time doing the bow tanking phase 2/Telonicus tanking phase 3/MC breaking phase 4. Unfortunately, I don't have a previous parse of Kael (it's been a couple weeks since we killed him, we've been focusing on Hyjal/BT progression), so I can't compare him to our other regular hunter.

My guild has 4 boss down in BT and is currently working on Archimonde. But my main concern is our rogue DPS that seems a bit under average, so if anyone can help. Here is our latest WWS, we've gone to Gruul after BT, and our rogue : Arkhéon, should be at least above 1000dps considering his stuff.

Wow Web Stats

He has Vashj's dagger and Azgalor's one, but play with Al'ar fist weapons because he doesn't like playing combat dagger, at least it's what he said. I don't know the rogue class very well, and maybe playing dagger could impove his DPS. So if anyone can provide some tips to why is he under 1000dps on Gruul ?