The WWS Thread - Page 128

Forty · 12/18/07, 7:57 PM

Originally Posted by Cos-

I'm mostly sure that the abacus effect is "haste" too. You should probably look at the druid's armory? or you know, link the wws for us.

Thank you. Yes, adding the WWS might have help, slipped my mind. However, the armory link might not be of use as the WWS was from July and I know the gear has changed quite a bit since then.

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Cos- · 12/18/07, 8:14 PM

Originally Posted by Forty

Thank you. Yes, adding the WWS might have help, slipped my mind. However, the armory link might not be of use as the WWS was from July and I know the gear has changed quite a bit since then.

Wow Web Stats

No druid armor procs haste, I don't see him shifting to pop a potion, and the haste comes every 2 minutes. I'll go out on a limb and say Abacus.

Wolflord · 12/19/07, 12:52 PM

Hi, here is a WWS parse of our guild across a night's raiding. I was hoping that people could cast their eyes across it and give any tips. This is one nights raiding, Gruuls Lair and most of SSC.

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For context we are a 9/10 tier 5 guild with only a few Vashj kills under our belt. I feel we do quite well but that we are only operating at 80-90% of our potential with room for improvement in all areas. As for fight specifics, we single target down Hydross adds, and during Tidewalker our AoE camp is completely removed from the rest of the fight.

Thanks in advance.

Jedit · 12/19/07, 3:27 PM

The most glaring problem I see is dps time. While it appears most people are dpsing for 85-90% of each fight there are some issues.

Not to call them out but the first one I looked in depth at was Evylyn on the Karathress kill. In that fight he did a less than 2 minutes worth of nuking in a 7 might fight but still had an 84% dps time. What this means to me is he was nuking until a debuff was applied and then stopped until said debuff fell off.

Blackhearte seems to have similar problems. As does Donona but I am guessing he was tanking for a short time which would account for that. I would suggest you have them work on spell rotations.

Your healers appear to be doing fine, the bottom two were priests which can be difficult to interpret with how prayer of mending works.

Your tanks seem ok as well, Nikkaszal may want to work on knocking a few more crushing blows off but otherwise seems to be doing fine.

I usually run as dps with healing experience in emergencies so someone more knowledgeable can most likely give more input for the tanks.

Grogzor · 12/24/07, 3:13 AM

We know where some problems are. The enhancement shamans that use 2h weapons should be being fixed real soon. We understand the problem with the mage using Pyroblast or the rogue preferencing eviscerate over rupture. But something is not right here in addition to that with my guild's dps.

2 different Gruul Fights
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and 2 different Hydross fights
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The first Hydross WWS was after 6 attempts of the raid averaging about 5000 dps.

2x Failed Hydross Attempts
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What is wrong here?

moowalk · 12/24/07, 3:31 AM

Flash heal is not a raid heal spell. Your holy priest has 81% of healing done from flash heals and a single Greater heal. Get him to put GH1 on his bars and use that instead. It will take a bit of getting used to but the mana efficiency is far better.

Both of your shadow priests do less dps than their mf ticks. Seriously, if they just spammed mindflay they would do more damage.

Neither of them used a single mana pot. If you're doing gruul now it's obviously a pretty casual guild, so that's understandable. Still it might be worth supplying them with them for important raids, or get casters in their groups to help out. It's probably a good idea to leave MB and SW

out of their rotation too, at least until they are comfortable with hitting 700+ dps reliably.

Other than that it's just the usual 'get a dot timer and use it; refresh dots and don't clip them'.

DeeNogger · 12/24/07, 4:57 AM

Originally Posted by Grogzor

We know where some problems are. The enhancement shamans that use 2h weapons should be being fixed real soon. We understand the problem with the mage using Pyroblast or the rogue preferencing eviscerate over rupture. But something is not right here in addition to that with my guild's dps.

2 different Gruul Fights
Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats

and 2 different Hydross fights
Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats
The first Hydross WWS was after 6 attempts of the raid averaging about 5000 dps.

2x Failed Hydross Attempts
Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats
What is wrong here?

Since Timthepriest is in the two WWS that I looked at, ill single him out: He should be doing about 600-700 dps with the gear he has, not this sad 450-600 dps hes currently cranking out.

spec: 9 talent points in the first tier discipline talents makes baby Jesus cry. Those skills both suck, and they are simply filer. Tell him to go 5/5 improved wand or 5/5 Unbreakable will, both are pretty useless. Anything more than 5 points there is an enormous red flag that says "Hello, I am very confused about talent specs, please mock me". Take those points and dump them into shadow power or improved mind blast, both will make his dps go up.

spell casting: Get a dot timer. Stop wasting mana that he clearly doesnt have (and is unwilling to pot) on mind blast and Shadow Word: Death. Keep VT and SW:P up and mash mindflay. Use a simple channeling spell macro to prevent the clipping of MF.

Gear: Literally not a single piece of gear enchanted. Green gems, and the wrong gems, too. Spell damage is the most important stat. +9 Spell damage (Runed Living Rubys) should be the only gem other than meeting meta requirements. 1/2 spell cast meta gem is the superior choice too, not that +12 spell damage/minor run crap he has. The fact that he has not a single enchant on all of his gear, including a *very* nice drop from SSC means that he is unlikely to give a shit about my comments, so im just going to stop typing.

Krazen · 12/24/07, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by moowalk

Neither of them used a single mana pot. If you're doing gruul now it's obviously a pretty casual guild, so that's understandable. Still it might be worth supplying them with them for important raids, or get casters in their groups to help out. It's probably a good idea to leave MB and SW

out of their rotation too, at least until they are comfortable with hitting 700+ dps reliably.

Ogre brews are essentially free. It might not be fair to expect blackened basilisks and wizard oils, but everyone even walking into gruul's lair should have about 25 mana pots on them.

Fierybreeze has an odd spec and even odder skill choice. Spec 21/40 if you want to be nuke based (you want that 15% demonic sacrifice), and use either shadowbolt or incinerate, not both. Since he made the spellfire set I assume he'll want to stick with fire. Otis needs to work on his immolate uptime and stop using curse of agony/wanding.

Cos- · 12/24/07, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Grogzor

We know where some problems are. The enhancement shamans that use 2h weapons should be being fixed real soon. We understand the problem with the mage using Pyroblast or the rogue preferencing eviscerate over rupture. But something is not right here in addition to that with my guild's dps.

2 different Gruul Fights
Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats

and 2 different Hydross fights
Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats

The first Hydross WWS was after 6 attempts of the raid averaging about 5000 dps.

2x Failed Hydross Attempts
Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats

What is wrong here?

Rogues-
Dommius has 60% dps time on the second gruul wws. Rogues can have 93%+ dps time on Gruul. He's doing about half the damage his gear is capable of it not worse. Do you guys have debuff slot issues? he's using Instant Poison instead of Deadly. What is he doing hitting feint? 560 dps is not agro danger under normal circumstances.

Latora- This rogue has what I call Idontspecfordamageitus. Also a minor case of Idontknowwhatkeysarewhatitus. Backstab Ghostly strike and Sinister Strike all in one fight? Impressive. Speccing all that way and using a 45 energy sinister strike instead of waiting and backstabbing or something. It's ok to be "casual" I guess. Blah blah dps time.

Mef- Blah blah evis but you knew that. Doesn't feel like using poison? Never ONCE hits bladeflurry? Lazy. Blah blah dps time.

In your failed Hydross WWSes: Your tanks are dying to the adds? Bob is your nature tank and Darklesnight is your frost tank? Zechs got hit by an add for 13k. I'm not a fan of aoeing on hydross, single target dpsing always seemed easier. The first elemental never needs a tank and you really never see agro issues. Single target dps on the adds also lets you make sure the last adds are tanked by people who should be able to handle the higher marks rather then all 4 tanks stuck tanking at 150%+ when dps slacks.

Grogzor · 12/24/07, 12:23 PM

We tried the single targeting thing but it seems more controlled the way we currently do it. Have 3 warlocks throwing seeds of corruption up on Hydross seems to work well enough. It also seems to net higher raid dps because having people change targets seems to kill their dps a bit. So in general its easier for them to just focus on Hydross.

Thank you also for pointing out some of the rogue deficiencies. We couldn't figure out why they are as low as they are when I am used to seeing rogues doing a lot more.

bobtheorc · 12/24/07, 5:14 PM

Are there any suggestions on how to up the mage dps? Several of them said they were holding back due to threat issues although I never hardly saw them register on omen. As long as people let me shield slam Hydross before attacking, threat isn't really a problem.

clavarnway · 12/24/07, 5:38 PM

Originally Posted by Grogzor

We know where some problems are. The enhancement shamans that use 2h weapons should be being fixed real soon. We understand the problem with the mage using Pyroblast or the rogue preferencing eviscerate over rupture. But something is not right here in addition to that with my guild's dps.

2 different Gruul Fights
Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats

and 2 different Hydross fights
Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats

The first Hydross WWS was after 6 attempts of the raid averaging about 5000 dps.

2x Failed Hydross Attempts
Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats

What is wrong here?

Both of your Warlocks have horrible specs. If they insist on going Destruction (though it's lower damage at their gear compared to Afffliction), they should spec 0/21/40. This lets them sac a Demon for 15% more damage, best Destruction spec there is. Their specs are both random and off the wall.

They are also both using Incinerate as their main nuke. This sucks because not only does Incinerate not scale as good as Shadow Bolt (Shadow Bolt is same cast time after talents, but it's higher base cast time means it receives more of your +damage), but they can't proc ISB for themselves or the Shadow Priests either.

If they both specced 0/21/40 and went Shadow, you would already see a rise in damage.

Cos- · 12/24/07, 6:26 PM

Originally Posted by bobtheorc

any suggestions on how to up the mage dps? a lot of them were holding back due to threat issues although i never hardly saw them register on omen. as long as people let me shield slam hydross before attacking, threat isn't really a problem,

-bob
(emperor of stormwind)

The mages seem all over the place on scorch. 4 mages on the second Gruul parse, 38 scorches. 5 from the guy who dies 30 seconds into the fight.
Insaneyn is in dire need of some spell hit, 22% resist rate on fireball? lol ow :P
Zamian needs to not be casting arcane blast and arcane missles in a 10/48/3 fire build I'm guessing.

Spell hit spell hit spell hit, maybe some better coordination with scorch. I'm guessing theyre not casting enough either but you'd have to ask a mage.

edit: 3 warlocks and only one of them did a debuff curse. I'm willing to bet it was CoShadows? Instead of CoElements for the 4 mages?

clavarnway · 12/24/07, 9:22 PM

Originally Posted by Cos-

The mages seem all over the place on scorch. 4 mages on the second Gruul parse, 38 scorches. 5 from the guy who dies 30 seconds into the fight.
Insaneyn is in dire need of some spell hit, 22% resist rate on fireball? lol ow :P
Zamian needs to not be casting arcane blast and arcane missles in a 10/48/3 fire build I'm guessing.

Spell hit spell hit spell hit, maybe some better coordination with scorch. I'm guessing theyre not casting enough either but you'd have to ask a mage.

edit: 3 warlocks and only one of them did a debuff curse. I'm willing to bet it was CoShadows? Instead of CoElements for the 4 mages?

I really hope it was CoE since they are both fire locks.

Cos- · 12/25/07, 1:57 AM

Originally Posted by clavarnway

I really hope it was CoE since they are both fire locks.

Yeah looks like it was, boss debuff tracking with wws looks like it got improved at some point. Otis should use CoS instead of CoA then...11k damage or 10% of ~310k (collected shadow damage).

Forty · 12/25/07, 4:04 PM

We are a fairly casual guild that is making an attempt to become more serious about raiding (even if it is only three or four times a week). We've had some issues with people not using pots, group comp issues, going to raids still spec'd pvp, and a few of our newer members are still getting use to the 25-man raid experience. As a guild we have yet to get past Hydross, Lurker, and VR. If someone could please look at the two WWS reports and offer suggestions I'd really appreciate it. On good days we can average about 9K dps as a guild, but I'd really like to see us up closer to 11K.

And any suggestions on what I can do to increase my dps (outside of better gear) would be great as well.
The World of Warcraft Armory

Thank you in advance.

Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats

Krazen · 12/25/07, 4:55 PM

Originally Posted by Forty

We are a fairly casual guild that is making an attempt to become more serious about raiding (even if it is only three or four times a week). We've had some issues with people not using pots, group comp issues, going to raids still spec'd pvp, and a few of our newer members are still getting use to the 25-man raid experience. As a guild we have yet to get past Hydross, Lurker, and VR. If someone could please look at the two WWS reports and offer suggestions I'd really appreciate it. On good days we can average about 9K dps as a guild, but I'd really like to see us up closer to 11K.

And any suggestions on what I can do to increase my dps (outside of better gear) would be great as well.
The World of Warcraft Armory

Thank you in advance.

Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats

On your Magtheridon kill:

Talr has 72 ticks of UA and 137 ticks of corruption, both of which are low for a 9 minute fight. Cancarn is using curse of agony instead of doom. and is using both conflagrate and shadowburn, both of which are a loss in dps. There is also no curse of elements up for your mages on the VR kill.

Cos- · 12/25/07, 5:15 PM

Originally Posted by Forty

We are a fairly casual guild that is making an attempt to become more serious about raiding (even if it is only three or four times a week). We've had some issues with people not using pots, group comp issues, going to raids still spec'd pvp, and a few of our newer members are still getting use to the 25-man raid experience. As a guild we have yet to get past Hydross, Lurker, and VR. If someone could please look at the two WWS reports and offer suggestions I'd really appreciate it. On good days we can average about 9K dps as a guild, but I'd really like to see us up closer to 11K.

And any suggestions on what I can do to increase my dps (outside of better gear) would be great as well.
The World of Warcraft Armory

Thank you in advance.

Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats

Your personal DPS:
Were you close to threat capped on that VR? With your gear level I could see you pulling about 1250 on VR if your tanks can support that.

Grogzor · 12/25/07, 7:30 PM

In regards to signia...he revived his pet twice, used 25 Multi Shots and 29 Arcane shots and only gained back 3,715 mana over the course of the fight. That just doesn't seem right to me in the slightest, especially for that long of a fight. To put it in perspective, on Hydross over a 10 minute fight I had get back 16k mana to not run out of mana and I was just using Multishot in addition to a standard shot cycle and I didn't revive my pet once. I have a feeling he spent a lot of the fight scraping for mana and that hurt his DPS. He can either try using Fel Mana Pots or start reducing the number of non-steady shot attacks in his rotation.

Edit: Yes, on closer inspection, he got 0 Quick Shot procs on Magtheridon and very few on Void Reaver, meaning he is using Aspect of the Viper to try and maintain his mana. The problem is that Aspect of the Viper is a major hit to hunter dps when compared to Aspect of the Hawk.

Jedit · 12/26/07, 3:43 AM

Looking at Tinkaboom specifically, and your mages in general, there are many things that can use improvement.

First : He is a heavy fire (10/48/2) mage and uses Arcane Missiles and Ice Lance quite a bit on your Magtheridon kill. I am going to assume this was a rare occurrence as it seems to be the only fight he did it in. It is, however, something to keep an eye on.

Second : Throughout the fights he seems to have quite a high resist rate. Checking his Armory his hit rating could use some improvement. This is actually something that all of your mages need to work on he was just the first one I looked at.

Forty · 12/26/07, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Cos-

Your personal DPS:
Were you close to threat capped on that VR? With your gear level I could see you pulling about 1250 on VR if your tanks can support that.

I'd like to thank you all for your comments and I'll be sure to pass them along.

I tend to hit between 950-1050 dps and agree I should be closer to 1250. I'm unsure if it's something I am doing/not doing or if its the group make up (shaman, warrior, rogues when possible), debuffs/buffs not used or a combination of all three.

We use a mix of druid and warrior tanks depending on the fight and who is online. I tend to spot the MT a 10K threat cushion before I start to attack. I also will vanish if I hit 90% threat. Overall I don't feel like I have threat issues. I use a 1s/5r rotation and use Flask, haste pot, drums, WF, DP, s/d, +20 hit food, and still not able to break 1100 dps.

Cos- · 12/26/07, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Forty

I'd like to thank you all for your comments and I'll be sure to pass them along.

I tend to hit between 950-1050 dps and agree I should be closer to 1250. I'm unsure if it's something I am doing/not doing or if its the group make up (shaman, warrior, rogues when possible), debuffs/buffs not used or a combination of all three.

We use a mix of druid and warrior tanks depending on the fight and who is online. I tend to spot the MT a 10K threat cushion before I start to attack. I also will vanish if I hit 90% threat. Overall I don't feel like I have threat issues. I use a 1s/5r rotation and use Flask, haste pot, drums, WF, DP, s/d, +20 hit food, and still not able to break 1100 dps.

I was talking about VR. You don't use a 1s/5r or DP on him. Heroism late, Flurry on cd, 3-4s/5e...Looking back at your VR parse:
You NEVER ARed? 1 Drums of Battle in 7 minutes?

...on a side note your shaman could use more crit if you had UR drop 13 times on a stationary fight.

p.p.s. you have a 3rd blue gem you have no use for in the short term.

Forty · 12/26/07, 1:49 PM

Originally Posted by Cos-

I was talking about VR. You don't use a 1s/5r or DP on him. Heroism late, Flurry on cd, 3-4s/5e...Looking back at your VR parse:
You NEVER ARed? 1 Drums of Battle in 7 minutes?

...on a side note your shaman could use more crit if you had UR drop 13 times on a stationary fight.

p.p.s. you have a 3rd blue gem you have no use for in the short term.

Yes, sorry, misunderstood your original question. I don't use 1s/5r on VR. I used Drums of Battle* specifically, which shows as 7 apps. The one War is from someone else. The other rogue and I were both alternating Battle, he may have used a War. No one else in the group is a LW as far as I know. And on this fight I had Adamantite Sharpening Stone on the OH.

Again, thank you.

*reversed Battle for War by mistake. Drums of Battle were used.

Cos- · 12/26/07, 7:20 PM

Originally Posted by Forty

Yes, sorry, misunderstood your original question. I don't use 1s/5r on VR. I used Drums of War specifically, which shows as 7 apps. The one Battle is from someone else. The other rogue and I were both alternating War, he may have used a Battle. No one else in the group is a LW as far as I know. And on this fight I had Adamantite Sharpening Stone on the OH.

Again, thank you.

Oh god, use drums battle instead of war. 80 haste rating is nearly 3 times better then 60 ap.

Himmel · 12/27/07, 10:11 AM

Void reaver raid buffed, weak DPS

Akil'zon salvation/GoTW

Is such huge difference a matter of bleed+poison immunity of void reaver?
Both fights are static for rogue
(Obviously I have way more buffs on VR as ZA raid is quite limited)