My group went back to Kara today without poor stuck-at-work me and took out Prince. I think the parse and the analysis (including stuff in this thread) helped, according to a little bird. So thanks!
Will definitely parse some Gruul attempts this coming weekend and run them by the thread as well, win or lose. Every improvement helps.
Awesome WWS. Why was the other rogue outside of the shaman group, and you put a feral druid instead? It seems like ret pala/war/rogue/rogue/shaman is stronger - a rogue loses a shitload without windfury.
Hello, I've seen some people asking for cast-sequences. WWS can now provide them : go to "Browse log", then apply a filter. Or directly on each player's page, there's a "Browse log" menu on top-right.
Note : this was just a quick reminder, but this thread is no place to talk WWS, please go to http://www.lossendil.com/forum for further discussions or feature requests. Thanks !
Last edited by lossendil : 06/04/07 at 8:32 AM.
Reason: Just a reminder...
It was try2, TRY! so half the raid didn't pot up max. Log is from shadowpriest (Yorn) but its not precise. BM hunter ended first according to SWstats, me(sv) and second SP were bit higher...
But checking entire log is quite correct, hunters rox
When shadowpriest casts one mind flay on second target and has SW:P ticking on the main target raid loses 0 dps.
edit. multitasklol!
...provided the target the shadowpriest switches to has already 5 stacks of shadow weaving up (and the same amount of -enemy mitigation debuffs, such as CoS, if needed. I don't know if totems have shadow resist and count as what level mobs for +hit considerations). Then yes, otherwise there is a temporary dip in DPS.
Manareg and possibly healing is down as well unless he can renew them which costs DPS time, too. So there's no free lunch but it isn't probably as big a deal as a rogue losing his combo's.
Last edited by Cadfael : 06/04/07 at 11:37 AM.
Reason: spelling
When shadowpriest casts one mind flay on second target and has SW:P ticking on the main target raid loses 0 dps.
Well the main target will have extra damage from shadow weaving, curse of shadows, and misery (Almost 30% increased damage) while the totem has none of them, so you really are losing damage. The totem needs to die fast enough that DoTs aren't effective against it, and you can't Mind Flay it, since it lacks a mind.
That said, Mind Blast + Death will take a good chunk out of the totem and you can switch right back to the primary DPS target.
Well the main target will have extra damage from shadow weaving, curse of shadows, and misery (Almost 30% increased damage) while the totem has none of them, so you really are losing damage. The totem needs to die fast enough that DoTs aren't effective against it, and you can't Mind Flay it, since it lacks a mind.
That said, Mind Blast + Death will take a good chunk out of the totem and you can switch right back to the primary DPS target.
So, one mind blast for 30% less damage cost and some mana lost because of VT at the cost of healers / dpsers life because of unlucky combo of Karathress what ever ability and spitfire totem bolt? That was my point. :p
Spitfire totems really don't have that much health. Our shadow priests definitely don't swap to DPS them, and I'm pretty sure at least some of our rogues stay on target as well. Swapping does cost you DPS, and it does cost you mana regen, and isn't necessary to get the totems down in time.
Well the main target will have extra damage from shadow weaving, curse of shadows, and misery (Almost 30% increased damage) while the totem has none of them, so you really are losing damage. The totem needs to die fast enough that DoTs aren't effective against it, and you can't Mind Flay it, since it lacks a mind.
That said, Mind Blast + Death will take a good chunk out of the totem and you can switch right back to the primary DPS target.
You can't dot the totems. I tried to single target dot them to guesstimate how much HP they had on our first couple learning pulls. It's direct damage to totems only and as far as I know it's like that for all totems. I don't think you can mind flay them either, it comes up "Immune" (to the slowing effect obviously) but no damage is done to the totem either. It's just Mind Blast and SW, and really, it's not worth switching off your target to cast our already least efficient spell(s) on a target that doesn't (can't) get 5/5 shadow weaving, vt, or ve. I guess you could do it if you are low on DPS from either people dying or you run with an odd setup. I have a macro to target the totem and I try to, but by the time I see the totem up, finish my mind flay, target the totem and start casting Mind Blast, it's already dead. 4s max, whatever works for you though, as long as they die.
So, one mind blast for 30% less damage cost and some mana lost because of VT at the cost of healers / dpsers life because of unlucky combo of Karathress what ever ability and spitfire totem bolt? That was my point. :p
Originally Posted by Elendril
Spitfire totems really don't have that much health. Our shadow priests definitely don't swap to DPS them, and I'm pretty sure at least some of our rogues stay on target as well. Swapping does cost you DPS, and it does cost you mana regen, and isn't necessary to get the totems down in time.
It sounds like everyone's saying the same thing in different ways. If you can't kill the totem before the first fire without shadow priest damage, then it's best to attack them. Otherwise have them stay on target. Depends on how much total raid DPS you have, although you only need 5k a second to kill the totem in time. So in theory you should never need the whole raid to switch; just the hunters, mages, and rogues will be sufficient.
In practice... no one likes switching targets. I know I shouldn't need to attack the totem as a shadow priest, but I do it anyway because often the totem doesn't die fast enough without my damage. Maybe it's just that other members in my raid are lagged and don't switch fast enough. I haven't read the WWS parses to see if all DPS is really going after totems or not. I generally prefer the option that has the least chance of causing a wipe, even if my overall DPS is lower. It's not like the rest of the fight is that DPS or mana intense.
Just looking for some advice if you notice any glaring mistakes. We had a couple dps die early (rogue, mage) and the mage was battlerezzed later in the fight who died again about 10 seconds later (His presence % is messed up because of this). I (Micah) ran out of food buffs/weapon oils because we took more attempts than I expected so Im a little light on my fully buffed dps. Also, I died near the end of the fight.
1. We are starting attempts on Mag tonight, do we have a chance or should we gear up a bit more?
2. Are dps warriors usually as low as they are in our guild or is there something wrong with ours (undergeared/slacking)?
3. Are there any obvious mistakes we as a guild or myself are making?
Our most recent Morogrim Kill mostly unbuffed: http://ugen.transrapture.com/Raid_Lo...133/index.html
Looking at other guilds Morogrim records, perhaps our mages should use arcane explosion more than they currently do.
Our raid history: http://ugen.transrapture.com/Raid_Logs/wws-history/
At a quick glance it appears our total raid dps isn't quite matching the numbers of those in other guilds of similar or better progression given similar composition. It appears a large chunk of the reason is our offspec healers.
I was also wondering if anyone knew a reason for the often large differences in the effective healing shown in SWStats and WWS? I thought it might have had something to do with how they both calculate overhealing but I am unsure.
Just looking for some advice if you notice any glaring mistakes. We had a couple dps die early (rogue, mage) and the mage was battlerezzed later in the fight who died again about 10 seconds later (His presence % is messed up because of this). I (Micah) ran out of food buffs/weapon oils because we took more attempts than I expected so Im a little light on my fully buffed dps. Also, I died near the end of the fight.
1. We are starting attempts on Mag tonight, do we have a chance or should we gear up a bit more?
2. Are dps warriors usually as low as they are in our guild or is there something wrong with ours (undergeared/slacking)?
3. Are there any obvious mistakes we as a guild or myself are making?
I'm really not sure how to improve your warriors, but I can give your hunter (Nevereign) some help. Several things really stand out with him. He isn't using his pet at all. Even as marks, your pet can easily be 15-20% of your damage output.
Secondly, even though he doesn't seem to be getting mana from an outside source (totems, spriest, JoW, etc) he isn't using mana pots or Mark of Conquest. He is however using horribly ineffecient spells in Arcane Shot and Serpent Sting. The latter should almost never be used for raid DPS, especially in an encounter when you'd expect him to be mana starved.
Finally, he's specced for PvP which is another DPS hit. And finally, was he using Aspect of the Hawk, or Viper? If he's using Viper, he needs to switch to hawk and start using some consumeables.
I'm really not sure how to improve your warriors, but I can give your hunter (Nevereign) some help. Several things really stand out with him. He isn't using his pet at all. Even as marks, your pet can easily be 15-20% of your damage output.
Secondly, even though he doesn't seem to be getting mana from an outside source (totems, spriest, JoW, etc) he isn't using mana pots or Mark of Conquest. He is however using horribly ineffecient spells in Arcane Shot and Serpent Sting. The latter should almost never be used for raid DPS, especially in an encounter when you'd expect him to be mana starved.
Finally, he's specced for PvP which is another DPS hit. And finally, was he using Aspect of the Hawk, or Viper? If he's using Viper, he needs to switch to hawk and start using some consumeables.
Thanks. I remember seeing the pet on some of the earlier attempts so he might have just had a brain cramp for that one and it even looks like he tried to call it in battle about a minute in but there is no data for the pet after that. I am assuming that is because he tried to call the pet but it was dead.
I will see if I can help him with his shot rotation/ability use but in truth im pretty dense when it comes to hunters. Our Class lead has been MIA for over a week now so we basically picked up the first hunter we could as an MD bot. Wouldn't viper mana gains show up in the log?
06/03/07, 9:56 PM
, and really, it's not worth switching off your target to cast our already least efficient spell(s) on a target that doesn't (can't) get 5/5 shadow weaving, vt, or ve. I guess you could do it if you are low on DPS from either people dying or you run with an odd setup. I have a macro to target the totem and I try to, but by the time I see the totem up, finish my mind flay, target the totem and start casting Mind Blast, it's already dead. 4s max, whatever works for you though, as long as they die.
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