The WWS Thread - Page 136

dakalro · 02/20/08, 10:00 AM

What's the point of seeing when a warlock does those in logs, you either see them happen when ppl ask or shout at them till they do, learn to shout at them as we do in guild for AB/AI from one of our 2-4 mages in raids and it still can take a while to get a 30 min buff. And erm, soulstone, that's like easy, if you got wipe recovery it's np, if you don't, blame the locks, they'll learn. Or train your paladins to make use of DI

.
Same goes for sheeps, since you have no idea from the logs of the surroundings.

And in the end it seems it's you who doesn't pay attention to what's happening in raid, all those things are easy to notice, if you still got people asking for healthstones or summons (????) or no wipe recovery. You don't need log analysis for that.

Medusa · 02/20/08, 10:37 AM

The problem is that one WL complain that he is serving for the Raid support during the other one doesen't care, don't even get enough Shards. The 2nd Warlock disagree so i would just take a look after the fight about who is right. Sorry but i didn't pay attention for the specifiv player who summons, i thought that WWS will Log that, so i can confront the WL's with this situations. That's the point of watching closely on her fingers.

But if it isn't possible I have to live with it.

dakalro · 02/20/08, 10:54 AM

Well, that's easy, go check spell names, go open up combat log in an editor and search for casts of ritual of souls, summoning and soulstone and see who did them. Also get them to spec different ranks of healthstone, that shouldn't be a big issue to them and people will start crying for specific healthstone then you can see who hasn't made their soulwell.

fredstar · 02/21/08, 1:09 AM

Wow Web Stats <== Wow Webstats for Azglor Najentus, and Supremus.

Is there anyone you feel on this list is lacking? (healing and damage.)

I would also like to know if most priests overheal that much.

Any constructive criticism towards my person healing?

Thanks in advance.

Maax · 02/21/08, 2:51 AM

I am running the WWS2 beta and it works great except when I get unexpectedly disconnected. If I disconnect in the middle of the raid it loses all the data from before the crash. Is there some way (short of logging out completely after each boss) to make sure I won't lose data like this?

chase · 02/21/08, 3:00 AM

Originally Posted by Maax

I am running the WWS2 beta and it works great except when I get unexpectedly disconnected. If I disconnect in the middle of the raid it loses all the data from before the crash. Is there some way (short of logging out completely after each boss) to make sure I won't lose data like this?

A /console reloadui should work. (or just /rl if you have at least one ace mod)

Blizzard doesn't like output to be fed live to the outside world, as it makes bot programs easier.

Machinator · 02/21/08, 12:53 PM

My guild has been having discussion(to put it nicely) of exactly what are we 'ready for' in terms of progression. Most concerns are in consistency not only in kills, but the difference between the top and bottom for raiders. I would like some general opinions on how we are doing overall in terms of what a 3/4 Eye, 5/6 SSC guild should be capable of. Thanks.

Eye: WWS Loading...
SSC: Wow Web Stats

Maeltne · 02/21/08, 1:02 PM

edit: found one

f1reburn · 02/22/08, 4:28 AM

My guild has recenly started doing Hiyal, could anyone see if there's something odd?

last MH raid
SSC raid
TK raid

Nerull · 02/22/08, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by f1reburn

My guild has recenly started doing Hiyal, could anyone see if there's something odd?

last MH raid
SSC raid
TK raid

First thing I see in the MH log is that nimlet is an epeening with CoD instead of giving the raid the biggest benefit of CoR. The treshold is 3k+ melee DPS which you should always have with 2 rogues + 1 hunter + tanks.
Only bosses where melee cannot do much for whatever reason ( like Kazrogal as most guilds let melee handle infernals and ranged kill the boss ) CoD can possibly be justified, however , it has the additional benefit that the MT will generate more aggro because of it.

Diingo is casting imolate and corruption while in the warlock thread on this forum its written several times that destro is spamming shadow bolts only after you have put up your curse.

Ryanp · 02/22/08, 3:12 PM

9 Straight Wipes on Void Reaver, Here is our Last 3 Attempts from Wednesday: Wow Web Stats

(1) What, as a guild, are we doing wrong? From what I can tell, our DPS is just too low and we're taking too much Arcane Orb damage.

(2) What did I do differently on the first attempt? On the first attempt on this report, I had 993 DPS (my personal high on any raid boss), but I only had 694 and 816 DPS on the second and third attempts, respectively. I didn't change gear and I applied the same cycle and tactics. For the second attempt, I didn't have any Windfury Attacks even though the shaman did perform Windfury Totem. I guess he was out of range but can Windfury account for a loss of 300 DPS??

DeeNogger · 02/22/08, 5:49 PM

Originally Posted by Ryanp

9 Straight Wipes on Void Reaver, Here is our Last 3 Attempts from Wednesday: Wow Web Stats

(1) What, as a guild, are we doing wrong? From what I can tell, our DPS is just too low and we're taking too much Arcane Orb damage.

(2) What did I do differently on the first attempt? On the first attempt on this report, I had 993 DPS (my personal high on any raid boss), but I only had 694 and 816 DPS on the second and third attempts, respectively. I didn't change gear and I applied the same cycle and tactics. For the second attempt, I didn't have any Windfury Attacks even though the shaman did perform Windfury Totem. I guess he was out of range but can Windfury account for a loss of 300 DPS??

That link only showed me 3 attempts, but the longest attempt (2.4million damage over 7minutes) had a poultry 5.6k raid dps. This is *extremely* low which means from top down you need to improve your dps classes, with no exception. Chances are your tanks will also need to improve their threat production too. Bringing extra shaman and hunters can help with threat (an enhancement shaman in the tank group can help quite a bit with threat) and extra MDs dont hurt either. Bottom line: you need to improve everything at a drastic level for everyone.

Dominus · 02/22/08, 7:20 PM

Originally Posted by Ryanp

9 Straight Wipes on Void Reaver, Here is our Last 3 Attempts from Wednesday: Wow Web Stats

(1) What, as a guild, are we doing wrong? From what I can tell, our DPS is just too low and we're taking too much Arcane Orb damage.

(2) What did I do differently on the first attempt? On the first attempt on this report, I had 993 DPS (my personal high on any raid boss), but I only had 694 and 816 DPS on the second and third attempts, respectively. I didn't change gear and I applied the same cycle and tactics. For the second attempt, I didn't have any Windfury Attacks even though the shaman did perform Windfury Totem. I guess he was out of range but can Windfury account for a loss of 300 DPS??

Your healers need to do a better job of keeping melee up. I count 3 melee dead between 35-45% into the fight. That means out of 7 mins, 3 of your melee didn't last 3.5 mins.

You also had a paladin and druid die very, very early. Your raid needs to learn to dodge orbs. It's a simple concept, but some people just haven't developed the spatial awareness to get away from orbs, and it's painfully obvious from the WWS reports.

If you're using 4 prot warrs (which it looks like) to tank...don't. No way you should need more than 3 tanks for this. If your tanks threat gen is that bad, they need replacing or some serious tutorial (along with chain misdirects from your hunters). On the flip side, if one of those is a DPS warrior and he's doing 250ish DPS, he needs instant replacing.

Your hunters appear to be the standard AFKAUTOSHOT hunters that tend to never see a raid beyond gruul. Neither use kill command at all.

Rockxlee has a goofy spec (get him to go standard 41/20/0) and no concept of rotation whatsoever. I don't have it off hand, but equip him with the 1 steady/1 auto hunter macro that has auto kill command and he'll see a significant jump in DPS. His specials are outnumbered by autoshot 78 to 50. While the ratio isn't beyond hope, he's using aimed shot (never do this), and primarily arcane/multishot. As a beast mastery hunter, his main special should be steady shot and it should be as close to a 1:1 ratio with autoshot as possible. He appears to be logged in PvP gear, so I can't comment on that. However, if he is using that gear for PvE, that explains partially why his damage is awful.

Thagooch also has a goofy spec (41/17/3), once again 41/20/0 is the spec for BM hunters. Again, no semblance of a rotation whatsoever. Autoshot outnumbers his specials 43 to 23. Steady shot macro him up, and try again. It looks like he might actually be logged in PvE gear (as it isn't COMPLETELY PvP stuff). He's still using 3 PvP pieces at least, which while better than Rock, isn't going to cut it in the DPS department. Basically everything I said for Rock applies to Gooch. 1:1 steady rotation, fix spec, and stop using PvP gear for raids.

Rogues seem alright. You and Nonstick are doing well, and I'd suggest you get Malish to spec combat for raids. Shadowstep isn't going to put out the damage you need, and even if he spec'd raid hemo, the raid as a whole would probably be better off by losing the hemo debuff (you only have 3-4 strong physical damage classes currently) and having his personal DPS lifted by spec'ing combat. Don't really want to go into detail as you guys did ok (except for healers letting you die), and the things above are the most obvious glaring problems. I also glanced at Warlocks, and most have horrible DoT up time, and not enough hit for the Destruction builds they seem to like. Fixing hunters/warlocks to be where they should will give you a significant boost in raid DPS.

However, fix the problems with healers letting melee die and with people dying to orbs first. With your RDPS being just on the cusp of killing VR before enrage, it's absolutely essential that you aren't losing people unnecessarily.

Sieta · 02/22/08, 7:41 PM

Originally Posted by Ryanp

9 Straight Wipes on Void Reaver, Here is our Last 3 Attempts from Wednesday: Wow Web Stats

(1) What, as a guild, are we doing wrong? From what I can tell, our DPS is just too low and we're taking too much Arcane Orb damage.

(2) What did I do differently on the first attempt? On the first attempt on this report, I had 993 DPS (my personal high on any raid boss), but I only had 694 and 816 DPS on the second and third attempts, respectively. I didn't change gear and I applied the same cycle and tactics. For the second attempt, I didn't have any Windfury Attacks even though the shaman did perform Windfury Totem. I guess he was out of range but can Windfury account for a loss of 300 DPS??

Some constructive criticism for your hunters. I see that both of them use BM specs that really don't maximize their dps potential. Thagooch has 0 points in mortal shots, and does not have have Go For the Throat, two abilities I wouldn't dream of not having being a BM hunter myself. Rockxlee is missing Lethal shots which is another huge dps killer. They both spend a lot of points on Concussive shots which really isn't necessary for raiding. I'd suggest more of a raid friendly BM build perhaps similar to mine (BM Build). I would also suggest for them to learn how to use a proper shot rotation. For starters I'd suggest that you have them just use a 1:1 Steady/Auto rotation which means one Steady Shot per Autoshot and maybe macro it with kill command because both of them didn't use kill command at all on your best attempt. They both use aimed shot almost every time that it's up. This is another huge dps killer. I never use Aimed shot in raids unless it's on an opening pull for Misdirect. It also looks like their pets are dying very quickly on VR with one pet doing about 4k dmg and the other doing about 3k dmg on your best attempt. Pets are a big part of a BM hunters DPS. I know that VR is kind of a pain to keep a pet up, but it is possible. If they max out their pets Arcane resist it helps a lot in several of TK fights. I used Fire/Arcane resists for my pet and really didn't have a problem in TK keeping my pet up. Once they get 2 pieces of t5 gear keeping their pets up gets a lot easier. Not sure what else to write, but I'll edit this post if I think of anything else. Or maybe another hunter wants to add some more feedback on your hunters.

ashrock · 02/22/08, 7:48 PM

The guild I am in is quite small and very casual. I personally find looking at logs and figuring out problems very interesting and would really like to see what more experienced individuals would have to say about the following log: http://wowwebstats.com/tr3sxp2jzycmw

Notes:
Liley is Demo, had an imp out.
Horizan was often threat capped according to Omen (in tank group, no hunter, no paladin)
Sqrash is a Prot Warrior
I brought my mage for attempt 1 & 2, brought in the druid for 3 and 4.

Attempt 1 & 2 we tried to kill birds.
Attempt 3 = Respawns
Attempt 4 = We collapse, no storm happened. People spread out again, then it happened. The static discharges and storm together wiped us out.

Some initial concussions: (Please let me know if these are grossly wrong)
Have the Mage respec and conform to a better dps cycle.
Demo Lock should use her felguard and healers keep it healed.
Put Enhance Shaman in a non tank group and have him use the threat reduction totem if the tank can't produce more threat.
Have feral druid or enhance shammy put on healing gear and help heal until our gear gets better. (both have 1500+ healing or better in healing gear)

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Touf · 02/22/08, 8:58 PM

1. Yes, the mage uses way too many non-fireball spells.
2. If demo, use it, it honestly shouldn't need a lot of healing.
3. No, that's counterproductive. Being in the tank group should help threat a lot.
4. I don't think you'll beat the enrage timer with 4 healers.

Pooblius · 02/25/08, 6:18 PM

Hi guys-

My raid recently got to 3/4 and 5/6. I am a bit of an "Ahab" about the DPS getting the most out of their toon. I am the MT in the raid and have always raided with the idea that I wanted every point of damage to fall on me. So it can be hard for me to understand the DPS mindset of "well it was good enough I was in the top 10."

FYI - we've downed VR 8 times, FLK 3 times and Leo 2 times by way of gearing.

Questions: Why do some ranged DPS have <80% dps time when other ranged DPS in the same fight are over 90% (e.g., Scrit)? Reculse has the ToA, DST and he's combat swords, is he maxxing out his damage? Happyengine has collected the most gear so far but he's still sub-1k DPS, is that off? Should I make Natu spec combat swords as well? Lastly, we had 3 hunters but love took one away. With two hunters should one still spec survival?

Thank you in advance for your time.
WWS

Wow Web Stats

Pooblius · 02/27/08, 6:07 PM

Any feedback would be a godsend. Thank you.

Gange · 02/28/08, 12:24 AM

Reculse is right where he should be in DPS. The only thing I woud suggest is to use Shifting Nightseyes for his blue gems to activate the RED. And to try to put them in slots where he might be able to get a set bonues as long as he has to use them. E.G. his T4 headpiece.

Alayne · 02/28/08, 2:52 PM

Originally Posted by Pooblius

Any feedback would be a godsend. Thank you.

Critiquing mages only:

Icy Veins use is very low! You have a spread of 28, 16 and 9 over the course of the whole instance. You had 7 boss pulls and IV is a short timer -- I would expected more in the 30 range of usage.
If Silverfrost feels he has to have clearcasting, tell him to shut up, spec 2/41+x/11, chug mana pots, and give him an spriest (Bloodlust would also be nice).

Hydross: I'm assuming you're using a FF strat for Hydross because there was very little aoe going on.
Ezekiel should not be wearing Lightning Capacitor on a fight where he's not aoeing and especially not when half the fight the mob(s) are immune.

Lurker:
Should be a classic spank-and-tank fight for mages. He has a very predictable time when he submerges and comes back up. You should expect to see 1k dps from all of them. Unload with timers/trinkets every time he's up, except for <40% phases -- save those for Molten Furied <20% time.

Moro:
/facepalm
Silverblast casted 1/4 of the aoe that the others did. Either was being too careful or he still was using his G15 macro on Moro.

FLK:
Your mages are scroching WAY too much.
With a total of 5 mobs up, that is 25 base scorches +1 scorch every 30 sec = minimum need of 45 scorches. In the kill parse, your mages are doing *127* scorches - bad! And I notice scorch fell off FLK once as well - equally bad! With 4 fire mages and having a sum of 127 scorches during the fight, I would have at least expected it stay up the whole time.
If their excuse for high volume of scorches is "I was killing Spitfires", they need to a) cast fireball + fireblast instead of the lower dps scorch, or b) target the spitfire faster to actually get some meaningful casts off.
Also, they should download and use "Scorchio" - it will give a timer and a warning (at the very least) of the next time it needs to be refeshed and if all of them have it, a shared timer.

Going through the rest of the parses -- up the dps with more fireballs. Again, with *4* fire mages, they should only have to cast 2 scorches each (at worst) on each mob, then straight to fireball spamming. Unless your trash mobs are disintegrating in under 10 sec, I would expect a MUCH higher use of fireball.

Sadly, the only mage who seems to have a grasp on the ratio of scorch : fireball seems to be the most undergeared one... Ezekiel/Silverblast have good damage, but even their ratio is a bit off.

P.S. Why are they dying so much? 4 deaths between all 4 of them at Leo, 12 trash deaths -- too many! Have them either manage their aggro better (they shouldn't have aggro problems since scorch use is so high and aoe use is so low or else your tanks really suck) or train Ice Block and USE IT.

lordgnu · 02/29/08, 12:04 PM

My guild has managed to down 3/4 pylons, but we are having trouble killing the elites/striders/elementals while passing the cores. We are using this positioning setup: Image:Vashj p2.jpg - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

At present, four people are south (Deralick, Zangetsus, Japheth, and Vuldunobetra in the WWS), three are southeast-east (Hulagu, Boomhauer, Elizabetha), three are northeast-north (Stormwatch, Deralick, Badluck) and three are north-northwest (Younggt, Allaren, Dubbloc.) Everyone else is in the center - Ironsoul keeps the naga tanks alive, Evillittle/Deseroth/Luxaeterna/Allaren/Rattle DPS / receive tainted cores, Magen kites the strider. Everyone is being encouraged to snare/slow/DPS the strider when it is in range of their position.

Wow Web Stats

A current problem is that the north-northwest and north-northeast groups sometimes let Enchanted Elementals through (p3 wipe!) and the striders/nagas are not dying quickly enough.

Looking at this WWS, what could I as a raid leader do differently? What could the members of the raid do differently?

Thanks for your help!

Cheers
Hulagu

Machinator · 02/29/08, 2:03 PM

This is our recent day on vashj that I would like help with. I think a big problem is just not enough dps. Looking around I see kills with a raid dps of ~10k, and we get around 8k with a lot of the top making up for the bottom. What dps should we expect overall or per person?

Vashj attempts

For comparison here is the other bosses in ssc and tk(which was shaky):
Serpentshrine
The Eye

Thanks for any advice

Kaacee · 02/29/08, 5:41 PM

Originally Posted by lordgnu

My guild has managed to down 3/4 pylons, but we are having trouble killing the elites/striders/elementals while passing the cores. We are using this positioning setup: Image:Vashj p2.jpg - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

At present, four people are south (Deralick, Zangetsus, Japheth, and Vuldunobetra in the WWS), three are southeast-east (Hulagu, Boomhauer, Elizabetha), three are northeast-north (Stormwatch, Deralick, Badluck) and three are north-northwest (Younggt, Allaren, Dubbloc.) Everyone else is in the center - Ironsoul keeps the naga tanks alive, Evillittle/Deseroth/Luxaeterna/Allaren/Rattle DPS / receive tainted cores, Magen kites the strider. Everyone is being encouraged to snare/slow/DPS the strider when it is in range of their position.

Wow Web Stats

A current problem is that the north-northwest and north-northeast groups sometimes let Enchanted Elementals through (p3 wipe!) and the striders/nagas are not dying quickly enough.

Looking at this WWS, what could I as a raid leader do differently? What could the members of the raid do differently?

Thanks for your help!

Cheers
Hulagu

I looked at your WWS "who hits whom" and it was a bit unbalanced and chaotic: Wow Web Stats

I would simplify things drastically. Putting 3-4 people on each side and saying, "kill stuff" is a recipe for confusion.

Pick 6 dps, put 1 at each flag, they are elemental killers, some spots require more dps than others, assign accordingly. Hunters, DPS wars, mages, elemental shaman are all good elemental killers. Remind them to DPS nearby striders if no elementals are available, unless tainted are spawning soon. They will be pretty busy. It will let you see who are your weak players and you can adjust.

Pick 7 ranged, put them on striders. Kiter plus warlocks, shadow priests, and mages.

Put 3 melee dps on elites. Assign ONE to assist on leaking elementals.

2 tanks, 7 healers. We like to put 1 druid, 1 shaman, and 1 paladin (w/o salv and w/RF), healing in the middle on the tanks and kiters.

Finally, one death during P1 is a freaking disaster, and should NEVER happen. Allaren died to shockface, no HS or potion. He got 1 flash heal from Stormwatch, and died 3 seconds later. There is almost no reason to ever use FH on shockface, GH2 or 7 plus renew. He would have lived it he had used a consumable, if Stormwatch had used GH7, or at least followed his FH with some other heal. One P1 dps death is so bad that it will make it impossible to get a first kill.

Unless you called for a wipe, strider DPS should never die to melee, see Vertren, Rattle and Leonn. Run from the tentacles, use lots and lots of nets.

vincero · 03/03/08, 8:13 AM

Hey Guys, I was hoping I could get some feedback on my healing as a druid so I can make any improvements in the way I approach healing.

Just some background info, I currently sit around 1863 +healing unbuffed and get around 2005+ healing buffed as well as 10.4k health and 10.3k mana. Generally Im used as either healing the mt or group patching which depending on the situation I'd throw a LB or two on a player depending on how much health they are losing.

Anyway, heres my wws report from Hyjal, excuse the RoS attempts, first time we attempted RoS so it was bound in wipes!

Hjal 21st Feb

Kaytikat · 03/03/08, 9:02 AM

Our first two ZA timed run attempts with 2 healers and I'm still concerned we're lacking the dps to do it:

Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats

Any suggestions on group composition/buffs/individuals that can be changed to help things along? (ignore the silly wipes - we all have bad days!)