I think Viper should, but to be honest I never use it in raids so I'm not sure. Apparently BoW doesn't show up on WWS any more (that, or I'm just blind and don't see it anywhere).

some sick hunter dps here on our first Fathom Lord kill.

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...1y&s=7813-8301

EDIT: re-anonymized after some further thought, as I am new to the guild and am not interested in calling people out.

The DPS of the top BM hunter seems absurdly beyond everyone else, but SWstats apparently had about the same result from what I saw.

That parse clearly includes trash packs, so it's pretty hard to learn anything meaningful from it.

Mouse over Split -> Full Report and go to Fathom-Lord Death...

Edit: He changed the link.

Our first real Gruul kill (he had chained casted Cave-ins the previous week):

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...&s=10057,10590

Mages need some work, they are working on it. Hunter didn't have a shadow priest yet still did very well. The one thing that I'm wondering is why don't I see CoS or CoE casts by my warlocks? I would be amazed if they didn't use it considering how good they are but I can't see it anywhere oddly enough.

I think it just doesn't show up on the WWS report. Neither Moanderx nor Vredesbyrd have CoA/CoD on their reports.

Can anyone point to a good introductory guide to how2hunter in WoW 2.1? I too am seeing signs of not knowing how to do good shot rotations from our hunters, I know enough to say "hey, that ain't right!" when I see loads of aimed shots and serpent stings and no steadies, but I'd really like to be able to say "THIS is what you should be doing" when I bring it up with them.

Gruul kill
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=xbxzehf2oue6y

Ignore the ret dps experiment, it got owned by aggro pretty quick.


Someone suggested our locks look into more +hit gear to help their dps and I think that's a sound suggestion. Any other insight you guys can add would be appreciated. I'm extremely concerned we simply wont have the dps neccessary to kill hydross before enrage and the other SSC fights are not looking too hot either really.

Melee dps is threat limited and we're gonna try to work a bear off tank next week to see how it improves performance(melee dpsers are all markedly higher dps on Mag). I'm unsure what more we can do for ranged dps though. 4 of them were in a group with a shadow priest and the dps isn't anywhere close to where I thought it would be.

We're the most progressed horde guild on our server and I think some problems have arisen because you don't even have to try hard to be the best here. I'm trying to foster some competative spirit and make people push themselves to try harder but I think it might be more useful to give some tangible suggestions.

Any help is appreciated.


mag meter(I know, it's Mag but we've only done two kills with wws) www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=jhvtxfr3ohur1

Here are some wws parses from recent kills. Our dpsers are all over with some over preforming and others under preforming. Or shadow priest seems to do less damage than i would have expected.

Hydross:
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...wg&s=8580,9048

Morgrim:
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...&s=12506,13073

Karathress
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...&s=16733,17300

The hunter theorycraft threads are great resources, but here's the very abbreviated version.

1: Use your pet. Even a MM hunter gains a substantial amount of DPS from learning to use their pet for DPS.

2: Use Aspect of the Hawk and mana consumeables instead of Aspect of the Viper. Get a Mark of Conquest to help with mana regen on long fights.

3: Choose an appropriate shot rotation and weapon speed. Closer to 2.0 speed after haste and a simple steady/auto rotation for BM, slower and two specials per auto (as much as possible w/o clobbering shots) for Marks/Survival. Serpent sting is almost never an acceptable use of mana for raid DPS.

Armory is down so I cant check his gear/spec, but that shadowpriest dps is just horrible. He only achieves 54% VT uptime, which makes him pretty useless as mana battery aswell.
In comparison, this is our shadowpriest on our first Morogrim kill (tonight): http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...9137,9866&a=35

Any reason why Hrund did pretty low single target and AoE damage? Shinx had alot better dot uptime and more than double the AoE damage.
Your melee dps is very nice (I'll be linking that rogue on our rogue class forums) other than the mace specced arms warrior

Whats up with Mend having only 48% HPS time and not bothering to use shadowfiend? (I suppose thats where the 48% hps time comes into play though..)

edit: 2x curse of agony on Morogrim but no CoS?

@Mountie:

I can only comment on the Warlocks, as this is the only class I play in raids and know how to play. At least I think I do ;-)

I wonder what your Warlocks do while fighting Magtheridon. Running around, searching for Infernals? That´s the way we did it in our first tries. It helped a lot to remind other classes, that the Burning Abyssals are their responsibility too. Hunter traps, Pala stuns, Priest fear help a lot, and you can cast your dots on the current target while searching for the next Infernal to be banished/feared.

Armory doesn´t work, so I have no way to find out your Warlocks talents and gear.

I think that Gaul has not found "his" way yet, casting Shadow Bolt and Incinerate seemingly random. He has at least 21 points in affliction, and was most likely the guy on CoS duty. Cobalt is destruction and casts CoA. Try it the other way around.

Polghana is a fire lock, but wastes dps with using Conflagrate. Another Incinerate would be preferable. You don´t need burst, you need sustained dps. On the other hand, Conflagrate is perfect if you are bounced around Magtheridon's Lair, in range and he has Immolation.

Generally, your warlocks need a lot more chance to hit. It hurts to see that, although it is a very small sample size, more than 10% of your warlock's casts miss. Scryer's Bloodgem, Ashyen's Gift and the sprit shard ring together with +15 hit rating on gloves should be easy to get and provide a large improvement. Maybe take a look at my armory, that´s the stuff I logged out with after our Magtheridon & Gruul raid.

Since we have access to everyones stats and talent builds via The Armory, is it possible to calculate how much different Auras/Buffs/Debuffs/Totems etc. benefit the Raids total DPS?

Like, "Moonkin Druid X's Moonkin Aura added 217 DPS to Group 3" or "Retri Paladin Y's Judgement of the Crusader added 357 DPS to the Raid". You get the idea.. Wouldn't that be a great tool for raid leaders to experiment with different group setups? Then you could see if it would be better to put a Feral Druid in the Melee group instead of another Rogue or vice versa, especially as the numbers would be different depending on the specific encounter.

Granted, it wouldn't be a fair value if the rest of the DPS was slacking but at least it gives you a picture of what's going on even if it's a bit blurry.

@Bahkauv

Thanks a lot for the reply, particularily the hit gear suggestions. A lot of those are pretty straightforward and not difficult to aquire so I'll pass along the info. I'm definately gonna ask how they have the curses assigned, there maybe be a little epeening going on in terms of who's doing what when it may not be the most efficient for raid dps.

@ mountie.

For the hunters:

General:

No pets ? its not hard to keep your pets up, especially not on magtheridon, if you have healing it keep it passive untill the second phase and just send it on mags.

No using pots ? Trollbabe used pots on gruul, noone on mags (prolly drinking while sitting next to a box to click) whilst Zulitak doesnt use a pot on either fight. In todays harsh reality being a hunter means chainpot, or be smart about fd drink moments.

Using Rapid Fire once ? Both hunters are specced for reducing the cooldown on it from 5 to 3 minutes, yet in a 11 minute fight they use it once.

Individual tips:
Trollbabe is doing a nice job from what i can see, should work on dropping serpent sting, its to much mana for nearly no damage.
Try and maintain the perfect cycle a bit more, (try and get a few more specials in).

Zulitak should really do some reading on here or something, all his specials combined add up to over 20 % less specials then autoshots, meaning he has been standing there autoshotting and not using a special, while the perfect cycle even include 2 specials per auto when possible.

As you mentioned they were trying to work on it, some constructive feedback for your Mages:

Ravick was alive for 8 minutes and 15 seconds, but he didn't really cast as much as he could have. 58 Fireballs, 29 Scorches, and 16 Fireblasts is 242 seconds of casting time out of 495 seconds.

For comparison, our last Gruul kill was around 7 minutes and 2 seconds and I was alive the whole time. I had 76 Fireballs, 8 Scorches, and 1 Fireblast for 242 seconds (strange conincidence...!) of casting time out of 422 seconds.

Of course lag can be a factor, but you probably get the idea. Less time spent casting will have a significant impact on overall damage done. However, given his build and gear his DPS isn't too bad.

Kymiko has a similar issue, but far worse. His DPS uptime is very low. 86 Frostbolts (and nothing else) over 8 1/2 minutes is quite non-optimal. You're talking about only 215 out of over 500 seconds spent casting. The interesting thing about this is that he was actually one of your highest DPS attendees. If he had been able to keep his casting uptime higher, he would have been nearly tied for your #1 spot on damage done. Encourage him to get back to casting sooner after Shatters, Reverbs, etc. and I think you would notice him making a substantial climb. (I think he may want to consider re-gemming to blue gems, in addition to ditching use of the mostly pointless spell penetration gems. He may also want to experiment with going deep frost instead of Arc/Frost with FSW to see if it increases his overall DPS.)

Jammius ended up with the worst case of non-casting, though... with only 80 Frostbolts and 1 Fireblast over the same period. It appears he has re-spec'd to Fire, as he is now 10/48/3 on Armory yet only cast Frostbolts in the WWS report. (As Fire, he should consider socketing more for +dmg instead of flat +crit gems, getting a better ring than the spell penetration one, and move to using better trinkets--e.g. Darkmoon Card: Crusade and/or Icon of the Silver Crescent. The spell penetration gem should go also.)

You can basically track the diminishing position of your Mages on the damage done chart to their ability to maintain casting over the period or not. Get them to have higher uptime and they will do quite a lot more DPS. It does not appear as if they had mana issues, given that Kymiko did not use Evocation at all, and Jammius did not use it until around the 7 minute mark.

This is very difficult because multiple buffs at the same time will scale each other and you don't know when they'll be up. For example, suppose you have a (horrible) group setup involving, a feral druid, beast master hunter, enhancement shaman, fury warrior, combat rogue. The druid gives +5% crit, but that crit is worth more if the hunter also has ferocious inspiration up, and even more if the shaman just crit and gave everyone +10% attack power. And the numbers change yet again if the shaman forgot to refresh strength of earth totem.

It's easier just to try group setups and see how they actually perform. Which is where WWS comes in.

First time poster, but long time reader.


http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=gzcczckoaazno


This is my guilds first Gruul kill. For the longest time, our dps has been one of our weakest points, which is one of the reasons why I am pretty excited to have WWS available.

Browsing over this log, there are a few things that really stand out (low dps time for one), and I know several people have sub par gear (raff and thornn come to mind). Most of the DoT capable classes also have pretty low DoT uptime (and I swear they all have dotimer or equivalent).

Is there anything else that jumps out as being wrong or that could easily be improved?

I have been trying to get people to show up and blast Dr. Boom for a while...hasn't been working; our dps is lazy.

@okla

Thanks man, actually most of the hunter stuff we knew. The reason we started running wws was because Trollbabe and I were looking at some of the numbers the beasto hunters that post on this board were doing. I personally thought, at 850~ dps, he was light years ahead of virtually every other hunter I'd played with. Then we see the parses of 1k+ from the beastmastery guys and...ya. This weeks parse was a "do whatever you normally do so we have a baseline" and I look forward to the improvements.


That's probably the thing I love the most about wws reports, it allows you to make changes and compare your results very easily. We've had a few of the mages switch to 10/48/3 in anticipation of next week to compare their dmg. Now if I could just convince a warlock to get unstable affliction...

I'll pass on the tip for Zuli on the shot cycle, or maybe just have Trollbabe talk to her about what he does since he seems to be doing it correctly.

I appreciate the response. Funnily enough I posted your response and now the other members are wondering where they should improve. Therefore if anybody would like to go through our parse and give some more suggestions/critiques it would be appreciated.

I'll link it here again:
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...&s=10057,10590

Yes, I realize it's a extremely complicated thing to do but is it impossible? The combat log tracks all buff gains and fades right? Like, "HH:MM:SS Strength of Earth Totem fades from Player X." It would just be so awesome I wouldn't even know where to begin if WWS could make this happen :P

While as far as I'm aware, dedmonwakeen hasn't yet implemented any sort of melee dps into it, he has apparently implemented most/all of the caster classes into his WoW raid simulator.

Check out the thread at: http://www.shadowpriest.com/viewtopi...690&highlight=

(Mind you, that's only a simulation and is not an analysis of WWS or similar results so maybe it's not what you're after).