My guild is currently going through SSC, and I suspect low overall raid DPS is a major contributor to our stumbles here & there (Killed Tidewalker last week, and while I expect that we'll kill him tonight again, it could go either way.)
I was looking for a WWS of a full clear, or at least 5/6, to show our raid what comparably geared guilds can do, and should be doing to progress. We have many members who have a ton of badge/ZA/T5 content/T5 crafted gear. Unfortunately, the most recent WWS posts for SSC are already expired.
Can someone please post an SSC WWS from a guild that is either at, or just over, our current raid gear level? Many thanks.
Edit: Come to think of it, might as well put this out there for comparison. -Last Night's WWS- Our raid is well aware of certain issues, including melee threat, tank death, and needing of another healer (currently).
Feel free to slice & dice me, I do not ask for other raid members' dissection at this time. I am well aware that my own spec is slightly suboptimal, in that I don't have Malediction-I do have an unwillingness to constantly respec, and figured that 5/5 Shadow Embrace was more important than Malediction for raid survivability, which is our other concern atm. The only reason I went the spec I did was because several months ago, I was dying constantly due to pulling aggro in other raids, and decided that the reduced threat from Grim Reach was a necessity.
Raid survivability is also why I am not currently putting up CoR, since our tank is dying fairly frequently, and our melee suffers enough deaths from pulling aggro as it is. Beyond that...go for it.
My guild is currently going through SSC, and I suspect low overall raid DPS is a major contributor to our stumbles here & there (Killed Tidewalker last week, and while I expect that we'll kill him tonight again, it could go either way.)
I was looking for a WWS of a full clear, or at least 5/6, to show our raid what comparably geared guilds can do, and should be doing to progress. We have many members who have a ton of badge/ZA/T5 content/T5 crafted gear. Unfortunately, the most recent WWS posts for SSC are already expired.
This was us back in February, we gave up on Karathress after a few tries because we only had 3 passable tanks that night.
Our gear was quite like yours (in fact your tanks are probably a bit above my gear at the time).
Edit: Come to think of it, might as well put this out there for comparison. -Last Night's WWS- Our raid is well aware of certain issues, including melee threat, tank death, and needing of another healer (currently).
The only thing that jumps out at me is how long it took you to kill Hydross - are you waiting around after the transition? Your DPS otherwise is as good if not better than ours.
Raid survivability is also why I am not currently putting up CoR, since our tank is dying fairly frequently, and our melee suffers enough deaths from pulling aggro as it is. Beyond that...go for it.
Your tank (I'm assuming that's Krimm) is overgeared for SSC. He quite simply shouldn't be dying, even with sloppy tc+ds debuffing. With 16k+ hp unbuffed, the only fight in there which is going to hurt him is Morogrim. He's not getting crushed with any huge frequency either (3% on Morogrim is quite good in fact). His threat output is pretty low though, using the Coolyo TPS calculator he was coming in about 200 TPS below me and there is much I could have improved there. He used heroic strike once on MTW and shield slammed a lot less than he should have. Is he spending the entire fight with a full rage bar? I would guess he needs to work on a more solid rotation.
I can't comment on your healers individual performances but I think they possibly lack organisation. How are you handling healing assignments? That tank should not be dying.
With respect to aggro - what blessing are your 2 palas handing out? You are using Salv, right?
We're having aggro issues specifically...so we're being forced to hold off on nuking Hydross. As well, the adds are our priority once he transitions, so it takes us a bit to go back to working on Hydross.
Salv is being handed out to those who need it (i.e., everyone who's not a tank or a hunter), but I'll pass along questions about the tank's threat gaining tonight.
I'm not sure specifically as to why our tank ends up on the floor...that is a known issue that we're trying to work on (more hots, for instance), as well as looking to fill an empty slot in our roster with a healer instead of a DPS'r. Thanks for posting your WWS though...makes me feel a bit better to know that we're not too far off the mark. Does make me wonder how raids go from ~9k DPS to being able to do ~28k DPS for Brutallus...does T6 gear really increase it that much?!?
Right now only the "Dimension" you are in is properly logged in the Kalecgos Fight. The only way to get more accurate Logs is via merging two (or more) Logs. Log-merging is not available in the current Version of the WWS Client, but according to this Thread it will return with a future Build of the WWS Client.
My guild is currently going through SSC, and I suspect low overall raid DPS is a major contributor to our stumbles here & there (Killed Tidewalker last week, and while I expect that we'll kill him tonight again, it could go either way.)
Smurff, we are not exactly what you are looking for, I know, but come close, we killed Karathress for the second time yesterday, haven't been very long in SSC and thus our gear seems to be below yours. Your DPS is higher as well than ours, though in the case of Tidewalker only by 400DPS.
Especially Tidewalker should not be a problem given your equipment and damage potential. I think the reason lies with strategy, actually it is pretty difficult to figure out what kind of strategy you are using.
However, one thing strikes me as very very odd.
Krimm, Vilhelmriker and Bladerik all seem to have tanking assignments but healing organisation seems to be not very strong. Go the healing statistics and you can see that the healing focus on your tanks is a lot larger than it is in our case. Couple this up with the fact that your healers are receiving a lot of damage, and I presume that your healers go all out with healing almost everyone, and that subsequently Murlocs are a problem and the healing focus on Krimm is not existent. Change that - give Krimm 3 healers, assign 2 to the Murloc affair and let the rest do raid/grave healing. It's not a matter of your equipment or damage performance, it's a matter of organisation.
That does make sense, and tracks with what I hear about healing whenever such discussions pop up on vent. One of our healers (who happens to be our GL) does a lot more effective healing than just about anyone else we've seen in the raid (except when one of our resto druids can come...he's not a regular member, due to RL issues). But during the discussion last night, it was brought up that some of the other healers seem to have trouble finding a place to heal every now and then...
Basically, if I understand what you're saying correctly, is that (while certain situations may require on-the-fly adjusting), once you assign targets to a group of healers (say the caster DPS, for instance), if the MT healers happen to have a bit of downtime and see one of the casters taking a hit, they shouldn't necessarily run to the rescue? That they should wait for the caster DPS healers to do what they need to do?
Hmm. I'll bring this up to the healers in our group; see what they have to say. Would you suggest that the raid/grave healers be ready to switch to the MT, perhaps have him as a focus for renews & other hots anyway? I know our luck last night with graves was absurd...we got Tidewalker down, but our poor pally tank for the murlocs got graved five times in two attempts, and seems like every single time at least two healers goes into the drink as well.
Edit: Last night's WWS - Death of Morogrim, as well as a couple of attempts at Fathom Lord. Just for further raid analysis and comparison to the night before.
I know our luck last night with graves was absurd...we got Tidewalker down, but our poor pally tank for the murlocs got graved five times in two attempts
This is at least part of your problem - your pally tank should not ever be in range of being Graved.
once you assign targets to a group of healers (say the caster DPS, for instance), if the MT healers happen to have a bit of downtime and see one of the casters taking a hit, they shouldn't necessarily run to the rescue? That they should wait for the caster DPS healers to do what they need to do?
To a certain extent at least, yes. What we usually do on Morogrim is: 1 pally on the murloc tank and graves, 1 shaman on the raid/the murloc tank, other 4 healers on the MT. The MT healers help out on the raid a little bit when possible, but not to any great extent; Morogrim usually keeps them pretty busy, especially when a healer or two are graved themselves.
Edit:
I just noticed, both yourself and the other warlock are using Rain of Fire for aoe - you should really be using SoC.
Edit: Last night's WWS - Death of Morogrim, as well as a couple of attempts at Fathom Lord. Just for further raid analysis and comparison to the night before.
I can't really knock Steeler for his damage, as he seemed to do decently on the kill attempt. However, why is he using Slam as 17/44/0 ? He would improve his DPS by taking that out of his rotation. Also, if Steeler has the rage for it, use Heroic Strike more often (unless there were threat issues)
We've used SoC a lot in the past (the Hydross fight and Solarian trash especially we use it a lot). With trying to minimize deaths from aggro pulling in recent weeks, however, both of us decided to go with RoF last night for two reason: mana conservation, and not wanting to die. I expect that as time goes on and the raid gets more used to the fight, we'll revert back to our happy, happy dance of death by seed. We're just kind of twitchy atm regarding aggro, is all.
To explain our strat that we've settled on, we pull MTW straight to his right side, into a corner. The MT & melee stay there, with everyone else clustered in one spot basically where his right foot stands while he's waiting for us to pull him. When murlocs come, there's no worries about where they're going (which is what our problem was before), and our pally tank can pick them up with Consecrate as well as anything else he can think of. The mages then proceed to freeze them in place, the AoE commences, they die (hopefully), and we go back to DPSing the boss. Is this the best strat? No...it's not, and I'll readily agree to that. I'm not the RL though, and this decision was made due primarily to issues regarding getting the murlocs in one spot. This leaves people in two groups, which means AoE healing should be king, but does leave people in range of getting graved. (We're not really worried about the bubbles...both time we've ever gotten him under 25% have been kills.)
I would think a pally healer would be less than optimal for grave healing though...solely because renews/other hots will suffice to keep up graved players. Since we only have one pally healer, wouldn't he be more useful in keeping the tank alive? My thoughts for assignments would be: MT/melee - 1 priest, 1 druid(or a second priest, if the druid can't come), 1 shaman, 1 pally - Circle of Healing / Chain Heal should take care of the melee, with enough HoT's to assist the pally in keepin the MT up. Graves/Murloc tanks - 1 Priest/1 Shaman - HoT's should keep people alive, and CoH/CH again for the murloc tanks will help keep other people up as well. Rest of the raid: 1 Priest, 1 Shammy - just throwing HoT's where needed, with focused healing here & there where needed.
Edit: And yes, Steeler, along with the rest of the melee, does have a lot of threat issues. That's one of the things we're attempting to resolve as we speak. Not sure about his actual ability usage...I'll ask him.
We usually tank Morogrim in the doorway behind where he is standing, with the pally tank off to his left (your right as you look at Morogrim.) The paladin tank, a warlock, and the paladin's healer(s) stand near the wall. When murlocs are about to come, the warlock lifetaps down to low health and the paladin heals him to full. This way the paladin gets healing aggro on all of the murlocs. Have never had any problems with this strategy and it keeps the paladin from getting graved.
As for WWS logs, we're 5/6 SSC and going to be working on TK this weekend. Band of Thorns
Another thing... Where's your shadowpriest(s)?! Healers don't always need them, but it helps the dps last a lot longer. Besides... we aren't too shabby dps ourselves Lurker 3/28
Where is our shadow priest? Heh...as soon as we can unearth one, we'll let you know. Believe me, we feel the need for it keenly. Unfortunately, we seem to have an absence in our guild...at least of any available.
I do appreciate all the help from this community...we noticed a definite improvement last night as a result of tackling various issues that were brought up, and others that have been raised will be addressed.
My guild had a truely mystifying near-wipe on Romulo & Julianne. Our priest pulled aggro on Romulo off of a protadin in phase 3 of R&J about 30 seconds into the fight. >Here< is the WWS link to the relevant portion from the protection paladin's perspective. You can just change actor to see what other people were doing at that time or browse the log, etc. >Here< is his Armory link. This is the priests' armory link, although he was in PVP gear and spec when I checked.
The protadin used all of his abilities with 0 resists; in fact, he judged righteousness...I think RIGHT before Romulo ran off and one-shotted the priest. Since both mobs were up, the healing aggro was being split between them. The priest did not have any mega-huge chain crits. He wasn't just spamming a big heal at the beginning of a fight. The protadin had wrath of air, among other things, so threat shouldn't have been a concern. There is -NO- reason for this to have happened, yet it did.
Can anyone figure out what happened or what we could've done differently?
Not sure how to look for it in the buffing up period pre-fight...
Did your tankadin have Righteous Fury up? This could have been shielded if someone else was main tanking the first two phases, or it just happened to drop at the end of the previous phase. I would say the vast majority of problems I've ever had with threat on my tank was due to not having that up...as well as any other pally tank I've ever come across.
Edit: In looking at his spec, I'm not exactly sure why he doesn't have 1Hnd Wep Spec deep in the prot tree...it doesn't just increase the white weapon damage, it increases ALL damage he does, including Consecrate, Avenger's Shield, and Judgement of Righteousness. If he's having issues where the raid needs to hold off a little more to allow him to build up threat, that talent is a very quick way of boosting it.
Checking the log, he recast it right before phase 3.
OHWS vs Reckoning is extremely close. Interestingly, when I switch him from Reckoning to OHWS on the tankadin TPS spreadsheet, his predicted average TPS actually goes DOWN.
Has anyone heard any information about the merger feature being readded within the near future? I've kept all my guilds logs on my HDD since 2.4, but its starting to become a bit too much, and not having the accuracy of multiple logs really dillutes the value of the WWS when learning Brut and other new Bosses. Just curious if anyone heard any news regarding the merger feature that I may have missed, or have any tips for getting an accurate report with a single log.
Correct me if I`m wrong, but in all Fights (except Kalecgos) you only need one Log to get a highly accurate WWS, as the new and shiny 2.4 Combat Log records "everything you can see". Your Logs of Brutallus should be just fine.
Basically, if I understand what you're saying correctly, is that (while certain situations may require on-the-fly adjusting), once you assign targets to a group of healers (say the caster DPS, for instance), if the MT healers happen to have a bit of downtime and see one of the casters taking a hit, they shouldn't necessarily run to the rescue? That they should wait for the caster DPS healers to do what they need to do?
I do not say that people should not help out when others are in difficult situations. Helping out is good - but trying to take over the jobs of other people is bad. You are in progression where were... let's face it, not professional raiders, but probably players with quite a bit of uncertainty. Tidewalker is a long fight - people tend to get itchy when they look at his health bar and find that he is at 60% even though they feel like they have exhausted their concentration already completely.
The way to raise everyone's confidence is to give them roles - give them a group to heal, something that they understand and can do. And let them do it - try to get rid of healing snipers. Now, I know that top-end guilds will always try to field fewer and fewer healers for certain fights, but not the kind of raid that you are running, you want your 7-8 healers feeling good, and knowing what they are doing. Even if you would try to cut back on healers, the way that some of your healers are doing it at the moment is just plain wrong. You have two hyperactive healers, you know whom I am talking about, I presume that one of them is the raid leader, healing anything that moves, and subsequently takes a LOT of damage! Let everyone do their job - they will feel better, there will be less confusion, there will be less healing aggro (if you have to heal 60.000 damage and split it among 6 healers that's a lot less then when 2 very fast healers do it). Everyone can still help out with MT healing, but...
I absolutely agree that healing assignments are vital. Almost every progression kill we've had followed a long healer discussion about assignments and tweaking them.
Most guilds get to Gruul (or Halazzi) then have to have "the talk" about healing assignments and cross-healing; the fact that your healers have been able to brute force through to Morogrim without getting the issue settled is a testament to their effective healing, but it also explains things like why you're not easily able to group up the Murlocs to kill them. (It also generates morale issues for some healers -- I know I get grumpy when I'm tasked to heal a progression fight and then end up being heal-sniped into irrelevance.)
To be blunt, plans that rely on heroic efforts from your healers ensure that your progression kills are not reliably repeatable.
Well, not really sure if this is the place to post this, but I think it's probably as good as anywhere.
Currently me and four friends are now working on a project that would effectively "rid" of WoWWebStats. I'm sure everyone's familiar with the harsh reality that WWS is out there to make money and is genearlly unsatisfactory to its customers. In the past month, paying customers are only having 60-70% of a success rate at loading WWS (we've been tracking). In truth, there is no reason you should have to wait if you're paying, and there's no reason that we shouldn't be able to host our own.
Another problem with WWS is that it offers no means of comparison outside of a given raid or even a given kill. To compare yourself to others or to previous raids, you'd have to go through old WWS and look at both. Those of us who fully utilize WWS use it for self improvement and overall guild improvement, and thus there needs to be a way to track improvement. We basically want to create the option of comparing yourself to old fights and/or old raids.
We've currently got the parsing functions down, but need help getting css-spreadsheets and/or html code. The goal is to create something such as eqdkp - a "plugin" for the website that allows for self-hosting and still presents data in a readable and useful way. We do not plan on making it nearly as "fancy," but it would be nice to have everything presented in a nice readable way.
I'd appreciate some help - I have a group of 10 that have been running Kara for a bit to gear up and are now moving into ZA (this was our 4th/5th time). I know we were really sloppy after the Bear/Eagle kills but I'm still trying to figure out what was happening on Jan Alai. The dragonhawk tank (Rosecrest - prot pal) could not hold aggro or was standing in the flame or was taking excess fire damage. I know how to deal with the last 2 options - I don't know what to suggest for the first one and everything I'm reading for optimal gear/casting/combat ratios for prot paladins leaves me confused at the moment. If anyone has advice/tips or suggestions it would be appreciated. We're in a mixture of Kara through T5 gear. I know we're not the optimal group - this is the second guild run usually each week. We have killed Jan Alai once before but I'm starting to think it was beginner's luck. We also had some issues with a healer focusing (Aldaron) on healing.
Hi, just thought i'd post as one of our raid members just started using WWS. Is there anything glaringly obvious any of are players are doing particularly wrong? Is the overall raid dps as high as you would expect, is anyone obviously slacking on trash? etc
I'd appreciate some help - I have a group of 10 that have been running Kara for a bit to gear up and are now moving into ZA (this was our 4th/5th time). I know we were really sloppy after the Bear/Eagle kills but I'm still trying to figure out what was happening on Jan Alai. The dragonhawk tank (Rosecrest - prot pal) could not hold aggro or was standing in the flame or was taking excess fire damage. I know how to deal with the last 2 options - I don't know what to suggest for the first one and everything I'm reading for optimal gear/casting/combat ratios for prot paladins leaves me confused at the moment. If anyone has advice/tips or suggestions it would be appreciated. We're in a mixture of Kara through T5 gear. I know we're not the optimal group - this is the second guild run usually each week. We have killed Jan Alai once before but I'm starting to think it was beginner's luck. We also had some issues with a healer focusing (Aldaron) on healing.
The tank (Rosecrest) is very dependable - but has ongoing aggro management issues and is trying to improve.
This is my first post - so if I'm missing required information - please let me know and I'll do better in the future.
An important thing, and what many (Protection) Paladins miss, is the healing threat from people gets divided by the amount of targets aware of the healer. As it currently looks Rosecrest is relying too much on Consecration to grab the hatchlings, while this works fine once enough of them are up, it won't be enough to grab the first few of them that spawn.
I've always found that using Judgement of Righteousness on the first hatchling that spawns, Avenger's Shield on the next two, and Righteous Defense on the third batch will get them all on you until you get to the point where enough are up to easily outaggro the healers.
Browsing your log file I also notice that your DPS might be a bit (too) eager on switching to the hatchlings. Paladin AoE aggro is pretty good, but isn't good enough to outaggro someone focusing on a specific mob without extra effort from the Paladin's part. Your DPS should probably not shift to killing hatchlings until after the fourth batch is spawned by the hatcher, so your Paladin will have a comfortable headstart on 6 of them.
buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of
This is our Brutallus WWS from yesterday. The first 5 or 6 tries where to get in the mood. But after that i tried to give my best and squezze every last bit out of my rogue and i don't know what i missed out. I usually run 3s5r and try to stack drums/haste/ar/bf I just feel kind of sad with that low dps
04/03/08, 12:06 PM
Lurker 3/28
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