Well even then, your arcane mages should perform better too for their current gear level... tell them to spec fire and get some CoE going on for one raid to see if that improves the overall raid dps :P
This time with CoE and better group setup. Wow Web Stats
Hey I have a question for you guys since you know how all this works. My guild is about to start T5 content so I figured I'd get this WWS site working. So we cleared Gruul's last night and I was like 5th or 6th on the recount damge meters. I didn't feel like that was right because I usually am near or at the top. Well the person running the dmg meters didn't have the option to combine pets with the owners.
So my question is do most guilds combine the dmg with pets for dmg meteres or not. Because the WWS report showed me at the top and I'm assuming that damge is combined there.
So my question is do most guilds combine the dmg with pets for dmg meteres or not. Because the WWS report showed me at the top and I'm assuming that damge is combined there.
Yes, most guilds combine because WWS no longer gives you the option to not do so. Although, if recount really is bugged like this, it may explain why I've found a bunch of especially bad hunters lately.
General note: You brought three prot warriors and two feral druids?
Morlock: >This< is the build he should use. Most of those points in affliction don't improve his DPS. He should never casting curse of agony, searing pain, or incinerate on Gruul. If he casts a damage curse (which he shouldn't; he should be using curse of recklessness or elements), it should be curse of doom.
Zato: You can tell what he's doing wrong better than I; he has a 2:1 auto:steady ratio and he's using serpent sting. And did he really use kill command only -once-? He really just needs to press his buttons more in general. Set him up with a macro.
Chi: He's using anesthetic poison, which is bad for a multitude of reasons. 1. It eats stormstrike charges, which lowers the DPS your shamans do. 2. Implicitly, he's not using deadly poison, which would let him do more damage.
Ljtank: what
Illaria: Arcane is not viable before you have two pieces of tier 5. They should just go back to fire. Speaking of which, tailored crafted (Spellstrike and spellfire) gear > tier 4. Go dig that stuff out of the bank and get it enchanted properly
Lazzarus: Same goes for him. He's fire, but his build is slightly off; icy veins is an amazing talent. 2/48/11 is the build of choice for fire mages.
We're finally starting to do some serious attempts on the bear cavalry and was 1.5m late last reset.
This attempt, we got a prot pala to make the aoe trash a lot simpler but due to a few hiccups on our way to Jan A'lai, ended up 3m short. =(
Was curious if anyone could help us with where we can improve as a raid, any advice/criticism would be greatly appreciated!
Just a note about group makeup, the melee didn't get windfury and the prot pala wasn't in the shammy-spriest group(which I think was a mistake in hindsight, since we had to constantly wait for him to drink).
Good stuff . I see your raid dps went up with about 4k on naj'entus, 5k on supremus and 5k on gorefiend as well compared to your last reset!
Yes, many thanks for all your tipps here at EJ! We still have quite a way to go, but seeing such great improvements with the short time to work on, motivates to try even harder next time.
we're finally starting to do some serious attempts on the bear cavalry and was 1.5m late last reset
this attempt, we got a prot pala to make the aoe trash a lot simpler but due to a few hiccups on our way to jan alai, ended up 3m short =(
was curious if anyone could help us with where we can improve as a raid, any advice/criticism would be greatly appreciated
just a note about grp makeup, the melee didn't get wf and the prot pala wasnt in the shammy-spriest grp (which i think was a mistake in hindsight, since we had to constantly wait for him to drink)
The 3rd boss took you over 6minutes to kill with a prot pala. I don't know how you did it, but just let one full side open, kill them, make the other side and kill the boss. Shouldn't take longer than 3-4minutes to kill the boss.
It just occured to me that I asked you guys to read through 3 hours of WWS and coment on everything- Rather uninteresting - I'll try to be a bit more specific next time.
The 3rd boss took you over 6minutes to kill with a prot pala. I don't know how you did it, but just let one full side open, kill them, make the other side and kill the boss. Shouldn't take longer than 3-4minutes to kill the boss.
On a sidenote, try to get a slow offhand.
Yep, the 3rd boss did take longer than normal as we had 1 person die a couple seconds into the fight, so we had to reset it, then had 2 people die on our killshot attempt, which didn't help much either heh.. as for the hatchers, we do let one whole side hatch, then move on to the next side.
As for the slower offhand, I used to run with dragonstrike+badge OH 2.6, but trying out dual s3 weapons to see if there's any noticable difference (I'd normally go for the slower s3 OH but I still dont have enough points for another one, and also there was a warrior on these boards (perkynose) who had some amazing numbers using a slow/fast setup.
Is a Tidewalker fight. My DPS was 1106 and I finished #7 on DPS. The only difference in the armory was I was wearing S1 pants instead of the T5 ones I have on now.
#1 I used Explosive trap to help with the adds. Is this a waste of time? Should I have just stuck with Multi-shot?
#2. Swing and Arcane shot was used running in/back from setting traps.
#3. Should I turn Bite back on my pet?
I am looking for ways I could personally improve. Was I simply outgeared?
Our guild is currently working on Bloodboil and we seem to struggle in the healing department. I have some questions about our raid performance and just the fight in general.
1) Is is normal for most new guilds just starting attempts on Bloodboil, to go with 9+ healers? We had 9 healers for our attempts tonight and just didn't seem to have enough healing all around to keep people up.
2) Can someone take a look at our healers, more specifically our druid healers (Troia and Namirath) and our paladin (Thonor) and see if they are vastly underperforming. WWS seem to suggest that they are underperforming but I don't want to jump to conclusions without someone with good knowledge on those respective 2 classes taking a look at their performance. Really would like to know if the 2 druid healers mentioned are following the right rotation. We had a 3rd druid healer who did great on effective heals + low overheals, while the other 2 druid healers (while better geared) seemed to underperform.
3) Also our dps seemed pretty bad on Bloodboil to be honest and I wasn't quite sure if it was the 3rd tank's low threat holding us back or if it was just plain bad raid dps. I did tell the raid to just sleep for phase 1, as people tended to pull aggro otherwise.
4) Lastly can a knowledgable hunter take a look at Nocturnum's shot rotation? He just seems to have used a lot of abilities that he didn't need to, which just ended up hurting his dps.
Any other suggestions/advice would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks in advance.
Any other suggestions/advice would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks in advance.
If you can do anything about the raid composition (and I understand sometimes you can't), take less druids and more resto shaman and shadow priests. VE + chain heal + healing stream totem is a fantastic combination for healing up the bloodboil groups.
However, even with the raid you have you should be fine for healing (your dps is another thing entirely and best addressed by someone more qualified). I'd tweak your healing setup though. Put the paladins + 1 druid on the active tank, have two druids look after the off tanks, and let the remaining 4 healers deal with bloodboil. Assigning a shaman to chain heal the tanks is a complete waste when you have so many great tank healers in your raid.
A crucial thing when looking at healers on bboil is knowing assignments and what they were tasked to. If we have that we can much better analyze their performance.
Subbing a resto druids for a shaman would help, although a CoH priest is just as good if you have flexibility with your groups. I'd disagree with kaytikat though, I usually assign one resto druid with keeping hots on all three tanks and he was able to handle that by himself. Keep your pallies on the MT along with two other healers and have them save their mana for holy light spamming the fel raged target. Make sure all your fel rage healers have the solarian macro.
I'm not sure about the details of your strat, but if you use three groups for bloodboil soaks then I suggest you put Aurorea on Bboil 1, Lrdzenu on BBoil 2, and another resto shaman or CoH priest on Bboil 3. I believe at each point there will be 10 people affected by bloodboil, so have whichever of those healers isn't doing anything assigned to cleanup on bloodboil so each healer gets some regen time. Make sure those three guys have a shadow priest, and try to assing bboil groups to have the least number of healers moving. Resto druids can heal fine on the run, and to some extent so can priests. I'd keep the shaman and pallies planted though. Since you have 9 healers you can have one guy in charge of keeping bboil group 2 up during transition and clean up fel acid aoe damage.
From your wws it would seem like your shaman and the second holy pally are underperforming, although Lrdzenu didn't have an spriest (I know I said this before but make sure he gets one). That's about all I can tell you without knowing everyone's assignements.
2) Can someone take a look at our healers, more specifically our druid healers (Troia and Namirath) and our paladin (Thonor) and see if they are vastly underperforming. WWS seem to suggest that they are underperforming but I don't want to jump to conclusions without someone with good knowledge on those respective 2 classes taking a look at their performance. Really would like to know if the 2 druid healers mentioned are following the right rotation. We had a 3rd druid healer who did great on effective heals + low overheals, while the other 2 druid healers (while better geared) seemed to underperform.
Namirath used Regrowth and Healing Touch as his primary heals all night. That's the "wrong rotation." His overhealing, esp. with Healing Touch, is absurd (90% on your Teron kill casting it 6 times). This might be an isolated incident (I doubt it) or a result of having 3 healing druids in the raid, but he should know better. Healing touch is almost useless except when paired with Nature's Swiftness. His overhealing in general is ridiculous (50+% on all major abilities) and his use of lifebloom (a tree's primary healing spell, even in the presence of other trees) is negligible.
Troia is even worse. His two primary abilities used on the Teron fight were Healing Touch and Tranquility. That's mindboggling. You have great cause for concern. He cast 172 HTs all night. I haven't cast HT 172 times since I hit 70 (not that I'm somebody, but you get the point). When these two weren't casting HT, they were throwing out Regrowths which are highly mana inefficient. You simply won't get far with this tactic. HT takes 3 seconds to cast. There's no way that heal lands in time. HT doesn't have any synergy with the rest of the druid healing spells. You have to come out of Tree Form to cast it.
Wallo's heals, on the other hand are right on spot (75% from Lifebloom, Rejuv next with Swiftmend and RG thrown in).
With 3 resto druids you're going to have to be smart with your healing assignments. Let them comfortably Lifebloom w/o worrying about getting their heals sniped. While I haven't tried it on Bloodboil (we let the CoH priests and resto shaman keep em up), lifebloom+RJ (+Regrowth?) is supposed to be very effective for healing your Bloodboil groups. Spamming Regrowth is just going to have your healers OOM all too soon. For Gurtogg, I would imagine your druids should be each assigned to a group and start their HoTs early and keep them up and just spot heal the 5th guy. Trees having to move with their group could be bad, but not impossible. They'd be fighting to keep each member alive but could easily do it. Alternatively, 3 trees for 2-3 BB tanks would be ideal. 9+ healers is right for just starting BB. Raid comp is an issue but, given badge gear, it shouldn't be a limiting factor.
If you can do anything about the raid composition (and I understand sometimes you can't), take less druids and more resto shaman and shadow priests. VE + chain heal + healing stream totem is a fantastic combination for healing up the bloodboil groups.
However, even with the raid you have you should be fine for healing (your dps is another thing entirely and best addressed by someone more qualified). I'd tweak your healing setup though. Put the paladins + 1 druid on the active tank, have two druids look after the off tanks, and let the remaining 4 healers deal with bloodboil. Assigning a shaman to chain heal the tanks is a complete waste when you have so many great tank healers in your raid.
Heh, we normally take 2 resto druids at most, but sometimes you can't be picky when you barely have enough for a raid. As for the shadow priests, we're like many other guilds wishing we had more. Currently have only 2 shadow priests on the raiding roster and one of them is sort of busy with real life. Shinnigami is a shadow priest but we had him respec holy, since we were short on healers and I didn't want to try Bloodboil with only 8 healers.
Originally Posted by thesmoosh
A crucial thing when looking at healers on bboil is knowing assignments and what they were tasked to. If we have that we can much better analyze their performance.
Subbing a resto druids for a shaman would help, although a CoH priest is just as good if you have flexibility with your groups. I'd disagree with kaytikat though, I usually assign one resto druid with keeping hots on all three tanks and he was able to handle that by himself. Keep your pallies on the MT along with two other healers and have them save their mana for holy light spamming the fel raged target. Make sure all your fel rage healers have the solarian macro.
I'm not sure about the details of your strat, but if you use three groups for bloodboil soaks then I suggest you put Aurorea on Bboil 1, Lrdzenu on BBoil 2, and another resto shaman or CoH priest on Bboil 3. I believe at each point there will be 10 people affected by bloodboil, so have whichever of those healers isn't doing anything assigned to cleanup on bloodboil so each healer gets some regen time. Make sure those three guys have a shadow priest, and try to assing bboil groups to have the least number of healers moving. Resto druids can heal fine on the run, and to some extent so can priests. I'd keep the shaman and pallies planted though. Since you have 9 healers you can have one guy in charge of keeping bboil group 2 up during transition and clean up fel acid aoe damage.
From your wws it would seem like your shaman and the second holy pally are underperforming, although Lrdzenu didn't have an spriest (I know I said this before but make sure he gets one). That's about all I can tell you without knowing everyone's assignements.
The healing assignments were:
Aurorea/Shinnigami on bloodboil/raid healing with the rest of the healers on tanks/fel-rage healing duty. The 2 healers on bloodboil/raid healing duty did a fine job (although Aurorea did go a bit high on the threat list with all the healing she was doing), but even with 7 healers supposedly on tank/fel-rage duty, we still had tanks go down in phase 1 and most of our fel-rage targets as well. I did tell the raid to come back with solarian macros for our next attempt, as I felt the healers were a bit too slow when it came to switching to the fel-rage target.
I will definantly try out your healing strategy with 3 healers healing up the bloodboil groups as that will probably help Aurorea stay lower on the threat meter. Definantly will try and give a shadow priest next time to the bloodboil healers. Shinnigami is our shadow priest but we needed him to respec to get 9 healers in for Bloodboil attempts.
Originally Posted by Daedalix
Namirath used Regrowth and Healing Touch as his primary heals all night. That's the "wrong rotation." His overhealing, esp. with Healing Touch, is absurd (90% on your Teron kill casting it 6 times). This might be an isolated incident (I doubt it) or a result of having 3 healing druids in the raid, but he should know better. Healing touch is almost useless except when paired with Nature's Swiftness. His overhealing in general is ridiculous (50+% on all major abilities) and his use of lifebloom (a tree's primary healing spell, even in the presence of other trees) is negligible.
Troia is even worse. His two primary abilities used on the Teron fight were Healing Touch and Tranquility. That's mindboggling. You have great cause for concern. He cast 172 HTs all night. I haven't cast HT 172 times since I hit 70 (not that I'm somebody, but you get the point). When these two weren't casting HT, they were throwing out Regrowths which are highly mana inefficient. You simply won't get far with this tactic. HT takes 3 seconds to cast. There's no way that heal lands in time. HT doesn't have any synergy with the rest of the druid healing spells. You have to come out of Tree Form to cast it.
Wallo's heals, on the other hand are right on spot (75% from Lifebloom, Rejuv next with Swiftmend and RG thrown in).
With 3 resto druids you're going to have to be smart with your healing assignments. Let them comfortably Lifebloom w/o worrying about getting their heals sniped. While I haven't tried it on Bloodboil (we let the CoH priests and resto shaman keep em up), lifebloom+RJ (+Regrowth?) is supposed to be very effective for healing your Bloodboil groups. Spamming Regrowth is just going to have your healers OOM all too soon. For Gurtogg, I would imagine your druids should be each assigned to a group and start their HoTs early and keep them up and just spot heal the 5th guy. Trees having to move with their group could be bad, but not impossible. They'd be fighting to keep each member alive but could easily do it. Alternatively, 3 trees for 2-3 BB tanks would be ideal. 9+ healers is right for just starting BB. Raid comp is an issue but, given badge gear, it shouldn't be a limiting factor.
Just exactly what I needed to hear! Hopefully I can get Troia and Namirath to change their rotations. Troia did run out of mana very quickly on those Bloodboil attempts. Now I know why! =D
By the way, Troia and Namirath are both she's, hehe.
My apologies, and feel free to delete this post, if it is considered off topic.
Recently a friends guild started to use WWS. Given the almost overwhelming information contained he is having some trouble navigating the reports. To date I do not feel like I have been able to explain things very well. Is there a guide out there as an introduction to viewing a WWS and how to navigate to get the most out of the reports he does have?
Ignore the terrible healing and the constant MT deaths I think that should be sorted I'm looking for DPS improvements that people could make, note warlocks/SP/shaman group didnt ever get a full heroism in, melee used their heroism early.
Specifically I have a few concerns -
Kypris - Retribution Paladin: undergeared but should he be doing more damage as retri? Any problems with what he's doing?
Titky - Enhancement Shaman: Seen other enhancement shamans higher is anything wrong here?
Kartale/Solidstore - Rogues: Seen rogues alot higher on many WWS reports but I cannot for the life of me find them doing anything wrong any ideas?
Any other help would be greatly appreciated we generally felt he was going down fast enough (71/72% at the 4:00 mark most of the time) but any ideas on how to boost our DPS would be greatly appreciated/any other observations.
Last edited by Frogmite : 05/27/08 at 7:44 PM.
Reason: Helps if I include the report I guess ^_^`.
Solidstar your under-performing rogue is letting SnD drop FAR too often. Also your melee are not receiving any kind of battle shout or BF, thats 4%dmg and a truckload of AP. Your enhancement shaman appears to not be totem twisting, fix this immediately or start recruiting, it isn't that difficult to do.
You won't see top-end numbers from your dps classes until they get proper utility support. Your melee need a dps warrior, your hunters (and their pets) need a feral druid, and your caster group needs an spriest (two spriests if you run two caster groups). All of your dps classes need totem support if you want to see top-end numbers. If you only have two Shaman, then your very best dps toons need to have them.
If your Enhancement Shaman isn't comfortable totem twisting, then give him to the Hunter group so he can just drop GoA and be done with it. Your Survival Hunter will put the extra Agi to good use with Expose Weakness.
Drop a healer for a second SPreist if you can swing it. If you look at effective healing, you'll see that Elyzm is doing about as much as your Paladins. That's pretty typical on this fight.
I hate to look like a dunce but can anyone please help me figure out how to analyze a wws and figure out how many times I let slice and dice drop?
I'm working with improved expose armor, and doing so resulted in me using a somewhat wonky cycle. I'd like to make sure by analyzing my guild WWS reports that I'm not letting slice and dice slip off too much.
Surely there's some other, more accurate means than to just count the number of times S&D was popped and multiplying it by the duration.
You won't see top-end numbers from your dps classes until they get proper utility support. Your melee need a dps warrior, your hunters (and their pets) need a feral druid, and your caster group needs an spriest (two spriests if you run two caster groups). All of your dps classes need totem support if you want to see top-end numbers. If you only have two Shaman, then your very best dps toons need to have them.
If your Enhancement Shaman isn't comfortable totem twisting, then give him to the Hunter group so he can just drop GoA and be done with it. Your Survival Hunter will put the extra Agi to good use with Expose Weakness.
Drop a healer for a second SPreist if you can swing it. If you look at effective healing, you'll see that Elyzm is doing about as much as your Paladins. That's pretty typical on this fight.
Thanks LucidityAxel and Orcsgotbooty - I'll mention it to Titky/Solidstore, other than that are there any other obvious mistakes? I know gear's slightly skew which is a product of a few losses to our ranks but generally I feel we can push it a bit more. Unfortunately we do not have a feral druid at the moment since our previous just got hacked recently although I believe the resto druids were trying to keep faerie fire on the boss at least. Our arms warrior was also away which was a shame but is it really going to give that much difference? I'll push to include him instead of a mage most probably next raid and see how much better they do.
I'm going to try to maybe sub a SP in for a healer although we'd have to recruit one first as our two back-ups fail. Thanks for all the help and for anymore that anyone can give.
Thanks LucidityAxel and Orcsgotbooty - I'll mention it to Titky/Solidstore, other than that are there any other obvious mistakes? I know gear's slightly skew which is a product of a few losses to our ranks but generally I feel we can push it a bit more. Unfortunately we do not have a feral druid at the moment since our previous just got hacked recently although I believe the resto druids were trying to keep faerie fire on the boss at least. Our arms warrior was also away which was a shame but is it really going to give that much difference? I'll push to include him instead of a mage most probably next raid and see how much better they do.
I'm going to try to maybe sub a SP in for a healer although we'd have to recruit one first as our two back-ups fail. Thanks for all the help and for anymore that anyone can give.
A dps warrior of any kind for the almost 500 ap battle shout (382 talented+ 70 from solarions + 10%) will make a huge difference even before 4% more i factored in. If you don't have a feral druid or a moonkin one of your restos will have to keep it up most definitely.
I tried to check your ret paladins gear but he was logged out in pvp then tank gear when I've checked, I'm not really sure why he is so low to be honest. Other small things I noticed was lumiinous being obsessed with flashheal, especially when he has Coh I don't see why he is doing this to burn through his own mana.
I hate to look like a dunce but can anyone please help me figure out how to analyze a wws and figure out how many times I let slice and dice drop?
Go into WWS, go under buffs, and see how many times you gained SND. If you never let SND drop, WWS will say you only gained it once. WWS can't tell the difference between you keeping a buff/debuff on 100% of the time and you using it only once.
I was hoping you guys might find time to look at Wow Web Stats
I'd be curious to hear any feedback on DPS in particular but also healers. That's our second Lurker kill, we took 7 attempts to get our first kill then came back after the reset with a couple new people and got him.
The tidewalker attempts were all suffering from positioning issues, and our first candidate for warlock to be murloc bait was an idiot and thought when we said life tap we meant drain life.
Feel free to ignore Chross, the aforementioned idiot, we only took him because we felt that any dps > 0 was better than an empty raid spot. Thanks in advance!
This is our guild link if it provides more insight with the various attempts from other nights up on there.
My main questions would probably be:
1. Are Calahon, Davellis, Cadderly, Earthertia or myself pulling enough DPS? If not, how can this be improved please. As far as I'm aware their gear hasn't had much of an upgrade in the preceding time since that kill. I'll log out in my DPS gear tonight so hopefully you will catch my gear on armoury (normally prot).
2. Im not hot enough on WWS stats enough to understand Davellis' report and how it arrives at a DPS time of 5mins 3seconds.
3. Any other additional help would be greatly appreciated.
05/22/08, 7:35 PM
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