Tryfle

Yet another request for any advice/tips from a guild working on Brutallus...

I've linked WWS parses from our top 4 attempts from a long night of wipes (our 2nd night there)--the best go was around 7%. We're having the most trouble with tank insta-gibs and keeping all burn victims up for the duration of the fight. Our DPS isn't what I think it should be either.

Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats

Our setup for most attempts was something like:

warrior tank
druid tank
resto shaman
holy paly
affliction lock

shadow priest
holy paly
resto druid
priest
priest

enh shaman
DPS warrior
rogue
rogue
ret paly

hunter
hunter
resto druid
mage
mage

ele shaman
dest lock
dest lock
dest lock
dest lock

Our destro locks tend to hover at the top at around 2K DPS (somewhat higher at times) and are really the only group that collectively bump the the threat ceiling frequently. The mages and hunters lack support as we have been missing a few support/buffing classes (a moonkin and a resto shaman). The locks are with the ele shaman as they seem to make the most use of buffs given their level of gear relative to the mages and they benefit from periodic use of tranquil air since they are the only class that approaches the cap.

We were not using full consumables across the board for these attempts (flasks, oils, food were in use, but not things like demonslaying elixirs and haste pots).

Any tips on what the tanks/healers might change to prolong survival would be very useful as well as tips/advice for our DPS classes. I have the impression that melee should be doing very well in this fight--leading the charts in many cases, but our rogues are without glaives and some of our locks are relatively well geared so I'm not sure how they should stack up against each other. I realize hunters and mages are at a significant disadvantage in their group, but any tips for them would be appreciated as well as any suggestions on tweaking group setup.

 

orcsgotbooty

You really should be giving your mages and locks shadow priests before healers, especially on a dps sensitive fight like this. Some of your healers have enough time to smite/wrath etc so maybe drop another healer, if they have the time and mana to do this they really don't need more than mana pots.

 

Skyhoof

I count 7 healers. I would not recommend using less than 7 healers until you have Brutallus on farm status, especially since you mention that your tank is dying at times.

 

orcsgotbooty

With healers smiting pretty often I figured that either they either don't need a shadow priest, or have too many healers, but I fail at counting.

 

malthrin

I haven't checked out the WWS in question, but if you're a burn healer, you can often go from completely overloaded to nothing to do a minute later if you get several immunes or resists in a row.

 

Strydaris

As I do appreciate the advice on the healers not smiting. Keep in mind that they are doing this when we are wiping. As some of you know sometimes it takes Brut a good 20-30 secs to go around and smash everyone in the face.

Does anyone have a suggested burn healing class? We are trying druid for the most part and a pally helping out near the end.

 

◊ Regen

Quick overview, rogues typically full BT geared + Consumables should be putting out around 2000-2300 dps. Both of your rogues let SND drop multiple times. Your prot warrior's dps looks sort of low, maybe has something to do with threat but your druid seems to be fine MINUS the fact that he only popped 1 out of 3 ironshields (WTF? at least on the attempt I'm looking at). I'm not even sure what to say about your hunters and mages besides they are very low (even for pre 25% bloodlust). Weadmizzle casted Arcane shot 26 times... Paingame 22 times..(am I missing something or...?) are either of them even survival, because they are doing survival-like dps. A second shadow priest would be good for either your mages or locks to use, and your elemental shaman is doign pretty freaking terrible damage too. Honestly your entire raid just needs to step it up and some people need to learn how to play their class more effectively (maybe have them read their thread under Class mechanics?)

Optimally you want 1 resto druid in the raid for burn healing + a Paladin to help out during that last 10-15 seconds.

EDIT: Your ret pally seems to be pulling his weight, Elemental shaman should be pulling 1800 no problem. DPS Warrior, Im sure he might be able to do 1600, but the spec alone requires alot more effort than fury (which should pull 2k), All locks besides the affliction lock should hover around 2k as well if not more.

As for ironshield, the amount of mitigation you avoid during stomps is too much to pass up, not to mention more or less the entire reason of using a druid tank.

 

Erosenin

I believe our rogues aren't far off from having every piece from BT they want, mostly our biggest problem for any dps is simply lack of weapons. We've had 2 caster swords drop from Archi, 2 2h swords from archi, and thats about it. They are at the point that they might farm S3 weapons cause even Mother isn't putting out, either way that doesn't mean they don't have room for improvement like anyone else.

What levels should we be expecting from the elemental sham and the hunters?

I'm a little confused, are you suggesting I should be spamming them? after playing around with my gear I'm pretty confident on my survival even during stomp so i've been trying to squeeze more TPS? I would also like to ask if you had the problem of buffs being knocked out. Last nights attempts had several instances where I would not receive Commanding shout and even fort after the first 15secs (buff was there just didnt receive the increase), so I hovered around with only 20-21k HP (never died to the lack of it, but really makes you feel somewhat gimped as I should be at 23-24k HP).

Also are our Ret pallies, dps warrior, and locks at appropriate dps level?

 

Ele'

My guild is (finally ) working on Brutallus, so I'd like some advice about my dps.
First, here's yesterday's parse.

I know, I'm the one on the top and shouldn't be asking for advices. But still... I'm not happy about those results. Here's the context:

My guild is relying heavily on casters dps, using usually 2 groups of magical dps. Due to a lack of shadow priests yesterday, we only used two of them and one was for the paladins group. So, the two "magical dps" groups where the following:

group 2:
- Resto shaman (Hopee - lw)
- Shadow Priest (Isobel - lw)
- Mage (Watergood - lw)
- Warlock (myself - lw)
- Mage (Minata)

group 3:
- Resto shaman (Kloe - lw using Drums of Restoration because she had mana problems)
- Balance Druid (Meilliana)
- Warlock (Styxia)
- Warlock (Mehrunes)
- Warlock (Dyee)

I think that all the locks where most likely chain-potting mana potions (excepted a destruction potion at 0:00), Styxia and myself where chain-potting Runes and Breaths. As I was already mana-starved (oom at about 30% with all cooldowns used) I think it was worse for the other warlocks (as a proof, they life-tapped about three time as much a me).
Finally I was the one using CoD, as my class leader decided that "because I was the one in the optimized group, I should take the damage curse".

So, with a setup as favorable as that, I can't help but wonder why my dps was so similar to those of Styxia and Mehrunes. We are all 4pT6, we all have crappy weapons and some best-in-slot items, we are all hit-capped... I just cant admit that a Moonkin itself would be enough to compensate the loss of a SP+4 drums of battle...

On a side note, I had some spikes of lag but not a lot, so I don't think it's the problem. Also, when I say "so similar", I'm not talking on the span of the full raid night, but on a "per-try" basis. For example here, here or here.

 

◊ Regen

Ele': Everyone appears to be pulling their weight except for the following

Bisou: If you are running caster heavy it makes zero sense to run him as MS, he is doing jack shit for dps and really is not providing much benefit. If he can pull 2k as fury, then hes set.

Maly: Let SnD drop 5 times in your best attempt (#15)
Sherin: While slightly higher than Maly, let SnD drop 2 times in your best attempt
Are they both using elixir of Demonslaying? They both look decent enough, small room for improvement

Kayros: I highly recommend Mongoose over Executioner.
Bronnar: He is not ironshielding or using barkskin before he taunts to ease transitions.

Meilliana: Is only doing 1300 dps, depending on gear he/she could probably do at least 1600 (Are they even keeping IFF up?)

Guismo: Ret knowledge is lacking but there is no doubt in my mind he should be doing more than 1350.

Final suggestion especially if you are running an affliction lock, cut the fat and run with 7 healers. Ideally drop a priest and maybe switch 1 of the paladins to a resto druid.

 

madman

Forgive me for asking, but where do you see SnD uptime? I can only find the number of times it has been cast, which has been a problem for me when analyzing my own guild's performance as well.

 

BeeLz

You can't see the number of times it has been cast since it only shows up when you lost it and recast it. You won't see a cast when it's renewed. So basically the amount of snd buffs -1 is the amount of times it dropped.

 

Ele'

Thanks! Some points though (as I don't know other classes very well):

- When you say that Kayros should use Mongoose over Executioner, I assume it's because of the avoidance it provides ?

- For Bisou and Guismo, it should be said that they are usually Protection and Holy. However, we didn't need a third tank, and we assumed that the extra mana provided by JoW would compensate Guismo's dps (we don't use a Ret. in our roster). Keeping in mind that they are offspecs with "salvaged" stuff, do you think they could improve ?

- About Meilliana, I don't realize what kind of dps a Boomkin should do in a non-optimized group, but 1600 seems a bit high. But I can be wrong, as I never really liked this spec.

 

BeeLz

- A ret paladin is certainly useful for brutallus, our prot paladin specs ret as well and although he's lacking quite some ret gear he does around 1600 dps so I guess there's certainly a lot of improvement possible for your paladin.

- Our moonkin did 1650 dps on our first kill with exactly the same group setup. Armory is down for me so I can't really compare but I'm pretty sure meilliana can do a lot better.

 

Tel

One Major concern here... Shouldnt that be battle? unfortunatly I'm unable to view your WWS to see if its a typo, but I was under the impression Battle were vastly superior.

 

Ele'

It's a typo indeed, it was drum of battle obviously. Sorry .

 

◊ Regen

Avoidance and still provides minor haste for threat. The ret pally seems to be doing fine (slight room for improvement -- but given he doesn't normally fill that roll hes doing well). Again Bisou should really consider going fury/picking up fury gear -- especially in a raid setup like yours. With a shadowpriest and full BT moonkin gear (legs off kalec / gloves off trash) should be able to do 1600 np.

EDIT: Cutting your 8th healer for another high-dps slot will be your biggest change. I think if you prepare to go all out one night (flasks / elixirs + food + oils), some mentioned tweaks and mages lusted at 25% (Have your feral innervate if any of them are low) and I think you can pull out a kill.

 

suane

Hi there,

my guild has been working on RoS and we finally killed him last Sunday. Some of us think, that we were just lucky and I’m not sure, if we will be able to repeat the kill easily. At the end 5 men were standing. It seems to me, there is a lack of damage and the fight takes too long in phase3.

Here are the webstats of that raid; the last try shown was the kill-try.
RoS

Do you have any suggestions or advice for us, how to improve the raid?
Thanks for your help

 

Gelanin

Been reading this thread for a while with much interrest, trying to estimate who's doing well, who's doing okey, and who's not pulling their weight in our raid. But figured i might aswell ask you guys & girls who have played for longer than me and knows more about where the different professions "should' be.

I'm primarily interrested in the DPS side of things (because i'm a DPS'er myself), but any tips, hints, i can give to anyone in the raid from this post/thread will be most welcome. I do think i'm doing fairly well in the raid, but i'm also sure i could improve things somehow. And from what i've been told by some others, Elemental Shamans shouldnt be in the top 3 in the Damage Department, so i am wondering what the others do "wrong" for me to be fairly consistantly in the top 3.

I (ele sham) am usually grouped with 1 SP and 3 mages, though for some bosses (like Naj'entus) i'm moved to a non SP group.
I've included some of the logs from various bosses done the last week or so. Some of them are from different days and with some different people in the raid, but most of the people are the same for all the logs.


Al'ar: http://wowwebstats.com/w6mpzuob634d1?s=2457-3277
Rage Winterchill: http://wowwebstats.com/w6mpzuob634d1?s=5336-5658
Anetheron: http://wowwebstats.com/w6mpzuob634d1?s=7216-7574
Kaz'rogal: http://wowwebstats.com/w6mpzuob634d1?s=10088-10395
Azgalor: http://wowwebstats.com/w6mpzuob634d1?s=12095-12537

Naj'Entus: http://wowwebstats.com/rwcfza13k3l3k?s=3905-4342

Doomwalker: http://wowwebstats.com/xe6sj1a1hmsga?s=319-706
Supremus: http://wowwebstats.com/xe6sj1a1hmsga?s=3530-4291
Shade of Akama: http://wowwebstats.com/xe6sj1a1hmsga?s=8588-8640
Teron Gorefiend: http://wowwebstats.com/xe6sj1a1hmsga?s=13766-14131



Thanks in advance for any help on improving!

 

Unseen

Your rogues are all putting out very low dps. Looking at the gorefiend fight, wolfe seems to be in the tank group, with no group synergy whatsoever. He should also get a sword offhand, and enchant it with mongoose. Sword MH/Fist OH simply is not good, and as his using a pvp offhand anyway he should get the proper one. Scobydan seems to have his gear pretty well rounded, and atleast has some group synergy, but is still pulling very low numbers. Lanche should really consider getting a decent pair of swords or the badge fists, especially with as bad a mainhand as the malchazeen there's really no reason to use daggers, which is a subpar spec to begin with.


All of your rogues need to focus on having SnD up as much as possible (100% should be the goal), its the biggest dps increase they can get. Also, consider making your melee group something like dpswar,rogue,rogue,rogue,shaman; even a restoration shaman dropping windfury gives a lot to melee dps.
Gems should be a combination of hit and agi, with 2 purples to satisfy metagem requirements. Using crit and ap gems isn't viable.

 

Gelanin

Thanks

We've usually had a Enhancement shaman in our melee group, but he's been away the last 3 weeks or so :/. Usually the melee group is: Enh sha, dps warr, 2 rogues and the 5'th spot being either a druid, hunter or a 3'rd rogue.

 

Yaelle

Gelanin,

Melee-DPS is also what caught my eye in the first place.
You have 3 Warriors who put out low DPS as well, so low I must assume they are all protection specced, also none of them had "Shadow of Death" as an explanation.

Your Druid is good, but he could do better.
- Pounce is better as opener
- Rake is a waste of energy
- He power shifted only twice
The group had one drummer, but only using them once in a 6 minute fight, also [Drums of Battle] are better than [Drums of War].

 

Gelanin

Beldaran and Sirel are both protection spec'ed yes. Mangudai and Sorell are i believe Fury spec'ed, though both of them have recently changed from Prot spec to being DPS spec, and are probably still working heavily on getting better gear, and getting used to being DPS'ers instead of tanks.

By druid, are you talking about Ayumi or Katura ? (both of them are in some logs, 1 or the other in other logs).


Thanks alot for the comments though, really appreciate them, and keep them coming

 

Theistica

This is a WWS from Mount Hyjal taken last night: Wow Web Stats

You can see where the paladin Veriana spanked me, Theistica, in healing. I'm trying to figure out how and why. You're welcome to give any feedback you think is relevant. It's worth noting that I used several different sets of gear throughout the night, but that my gear is mostly a mix of T5/arena/ZA/T4. I logged out in my Archimonde gear if you check my Armory http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/ch...on&n=Theistica

As far as I can tell, we had the exact same healing presence, yet he did 1100 HPS compared to my 800! Oddly, his overhealing wasn't really more than mine. You can tell from how hard his heals land that his +healing is a great deal bigger than mine. One clear adjustment I'm making next time is to use more +healing. Also, you can see where holy light was his primary spell, though it doesn't really look like he downranked it any. He must have been blowing through mana, because his crit rate is worse than mine.

I am increasingly frustrated with my Vengeful Gladiator's Ornamented Gloves. I'm starting to think the 2% FoL crit boost is a farce. Has anyone tested to see if it actually works? I critted 39% of my HL compared to Veriana's 33%. However, when it came to FoL, the difference was my 26% to 24%. Not only do I have a higher crit rate in general, but also the glove bonus (granted I only wore the Vengeful gloves for 2/3 of the night, but Veriana never wore them that I saw). I do not understand how there is a 13% discrepancy between my crit rates when there should only be a 4% difference. I guess I didn't cast HL enough to make its statistics reliable.

Back to the point, the who heals whom shows that we distributed our heals almost exactly the same across the board. It seems the only real difference are that Veriana 1) has higher +healing (though lower crit) and 2) used HL way more often (and yet had similar overhealing). Maybe I just had a bad time predicting incoming damage since it was my first night with this raid, but I was very disappointed with my performance. I wound up using my haste set all night on trash to try and catch up (ignored mana efficiency I thought, though clearly I could have casted more HLs) and I think I played it too safely on the bosses.

Help is appreciated. Thanks.

 

Yaelle

Sorry, I was also referring to "Teron Gorefiend - Death" & Katura in the report, which is considered a good melee benchmark, if you do not have to do the Ghost-Game.