Group composition could be worked on a bit. Your tanks are dieing - put them in a group which helps them live.


Enh
MS
Ret
Rog
Rog

Feral
Feral
Resto Sham (GoA)
Aff Lock (respec 40/0/21 w/ Shadow Embrace and Malediction, spam Sbolt and keep corruption up)
Resto Druid

Destro Lock
Boomkin
Ele Sham (Keep Shamble in and your best 2 locks, or drop the mage in g5 for 3rd lock)
Spriest
Mage

Spriest
Holy Pally
Holy Pally
Holy Pally / Resto Sham (Sqwee / Bifrost)
Resto Sham


BM
BM
Mage
CoH Priest
Holy Priest


Have the 3 paladins spam the tanks, they'll be able to push out large heals for a long time (Bifrost can do that too if he's in for Sqwee). Holy priest in g5 and the resto druid on burns. They can put out a few heals on tanks when ppl aren't burned much. Make sure that those 2 healers know that NO ONE dies to burn, unless they are morons and take slashes more than ~10 sec after burn. Resto Shaman in G5 and G2 can put out a lot of Chain heal on the tank to bounce to slashed people. Make sure they have more than one heal bound though - direct heals will be needed too, especially during stomps. The CoH priest in G5 can spam CoH and keep up the slashes, feed him inervates from the ferals as required.

You'll probably need to drop a healer eventually, unless your dps are fantastic for a first kill. If you drop a healer, probably take out a paladin and have the resto shaman in g4 focus more on tank healing, or have the priest in g5 focus more on tank healing if your shaman are able to heal up slashes by themselves with chain heal.


This setup will give your tanks a lot more survivability. Shadow Embrace, and Imp and GoA are all great. The 2nd tank will also now get tree aura (not especially great, but its not like a tree needs spriest and they don't fit well anywhere). Your tanks will lose some TPS however. Being druids, they *should* be ok. My guild runs a very similar setup (2 druids in a survival-focused group) and have several 2500+ dps'ers. Your casters in G3 may feel a bit limited. If so, switch the hunters into G2, put the tree and the aff-lock in g5. 6% more dmg to your tanks, GoA and LotP for your ferals - more dmg *and* threat. You'll lose some tank health, but not a ton more.

Have a rogue use imp EA. Its a negligable dps downgrade for that specific rogue (like.. 5-10 dps), the warrior (who already has to do a LOT of debuffs) will go up 50-100 dps, and all of your physical dps will go up ~3-4% due to having 475 more armor pen. The rogue should just move 2 points from poison talents (imp or vile) into imp EA. Run 5s/5ea. Burn Adren Rush right at the start of the fight to get it up quick and into a good cycle, then vanish and he should be fine all fight.

Make sure CoR and CoE stay up, if the moonkin isn't already, have him spec imp FF (and make sure physical dps know to use 3% less hit..). If one of your hunters specs Survival, thats a nice boost too. Both your rogues drop Slice and Dice too much, especially Pankakes.

As for lusts, swap a resto shaman into the caster group for the spriest at a higher percent (match it up with other CD's, as the group decides). Then swap the mage in G5 in for the spriest at 20% and lust w/ the ele sham. Again, swap your other resto shaman into the melee group for the arms warrior at a higher percent, then have the enhance sham lust sub-20 with the arms warrior still in.

Hello all,

My guild has been progressing through Sunwell at a somewhat decent pace and we're currently working on Brutallus. With quite a few hours of attempts on him, we seem to be running into one common problem; Tank deaths.

We've managed to reach enrage twice but I feel with the time we have already put into him we should be hitting enrage much more consistently or at the very least able to last until our healers are struggling for mana. As it is now our tank deaths are directly correlated with stomps and at this point our tanks know the importance of Ironshield potions and CDs, and to my knowledge they're using them appropriately.

I'm not sure of the cause(s) of the tanks' deaths (besides the obvious) but I believe it may be a number of issues that I can't recognize that are holding our raid back. Here's a WWS of our latest night of attempts:

(DPS was assumed to be going all out on consumables as well, so if you see any problems with our DPS please feel free to point those out, too)

Wow Web Stats

I appreciate all of you taking the time to read through these and help out.

Well first off TC fell off 6 times, and demo 4 times (im mainly looking at your best attempt here try nr 11. If tc/demo falls off during a stomp the chance that a tank dies becomes huge, never let it fall off, its quite easy for a fury war to keep it up (demo that is). Warrior and paladin tanks tend to take higher burst damage than a druid does, so they are harder to heal. We usually have 2 shamans who mainly focus on keeping the raid alive, both throws chainheals through the tank and during stomp one of them spams healingwave on the mt. Assign 1 healer to start precasting before a tank switch, so that the new tank gets a heal asap.

Tell your surv hunter to get a owl for brut and your fury war to specc imp demo and keep it up. If you have both imp demoshout+owl you can use CoR on the boss which will increase your dps quite alot.

Your feral is doing way to low damage to justify a spot on brut, you would be alot better off using another rogue or a arms warrior. And using your feral as a tank instead.

Your fury war is doing too low dps, partly because he was getting some parries+isnt using shard of contempt from heroic mgt, tell him to use the shard+dst for brut. And tell him to refresh demo+bs alot better. He also let rampage drop (this isnt the end of the world though, not if he got ul with crits and needed to buff bs/ds at the same time, he should practise his timing though) Berserker rage is also quite useless on this fight and so is sweeping strikes (im quite sure that was a accident though) He should also be using haste potions and adamantite sharpening stones instead of insane str pots and righteous weapon coating. I didnt see any demonslaying being used by him either, if he used one before the pull it wouldnt show though but even after a 6 min fight he didnt refresh it (duration is 5 min) which is a really big dps loss. All in all having a feral+retri+enh shaman in the group + surv hunter + bf and doing 1.8k dps with dual glaives is really low.

How were your healers assigned?

Looking at try 11 you don't seem to have any healers who are only healing the tanks.
Your priests are all using a mix of greater heal / circle of healing, which seems odd if they were assigned for tankhealing only.
Seeing a lot of deaths with no heals for 3-4 seconds, as well as flash of light on a tank with stomp. Make sure your healers are casting their biggest heals on stomps.

You will need to drop a healer for one more dps, maybe a second SP.
We always ran 2-3 SP's for brutallus, giving one to MT healers to make sure they can spam big heals for 6 minutes.
Some might say it's not needed, but if your dps can manage without it does give the healers a lot more freedom when it comes to spamming big heals and not having to worry as much about mana.
And when your paladins are using flash of light on tanks that's something I would seriously consider changing, with SP they can spam various ranks of Holy Light, I used HL9 for general spamming and HL11 on stomps.

A lot of it comes down to healing more I would say, none of your healers used 3 mana pots for a 6 minute try, some not even 1.
Your warrior tank seems to have run out of Ironshields around try 10, using a total of one for tries 11-15, which also doesn't help.

I am a level 70 druid, have normal gear for starting Sunwell, I am just curious about my performance as a healer. What can I do to improve, what should I change. Here is a WWS from our last outing in BT.

Wow Web Stats

Thanks
Belgar

My guild's been trying Brutallus for a while now, and we're getting close to a kill.
Our best is a 3% wipe (boss was at 6 or 7% when enrage hit) on our last try yesterday.

WWS Parse for the night's tries

Group makeup varied a little during the evening, but for the last several tries it was like this:

Feral tank
Prot Warrior
BM Hunter
Resto Shaman
Resto Druid

Mage
Mage
Shadow Priest
Moonkin
Resto Shaman

Warlock
Warlock
Warlock
Ele Shaman
Mage

Rogue
Rogue
Rogue
MS Warrior
Enh Shaman

Holy Priest (spirit spec)
Holy Priest
Holy Paladin
Holy Paladin
Shadow Priest

Tank healers were the 2 holy priests and one of the paladins (Deathreaper)
Burn healers were the other paladin and the druid
The shamans were on meteor slash, chaining off tanks where possible

I'm aware the group makeups aren't ideal, especially for the caster groups. We don't have enough shadow priests to be able to bring 3 to most raids, however, and our tank healers all report that they can't last through the fight without one.

Any comments on what we could improve would be greatly appreciated.

Last night we had a learning night on Teron Gorefiend and I was wondering if there is any way in WWS to find out how people perform when in ghost form? Some people just seem to be naturals whilst others just don't get it. Our best try was 14% when, you know, one of them got the debuff. *sigh*

We hover between 20k and 23k raid dps on this boss, which I think should be enough.

Here's the WWS if it helps: Wow Web Stats

Any comments are more than welcome.

If the constructs get to the raid, you've found your resident guild spacko (tm). It really is as simple as that.

If you're struggling to see who the 10 foot tall bright blue ghost is at that point, then ask a DPS to keep an eye on who the last two that got ghosts were.

As far as I'm aware WWS doesn't support anything that would help you more than that.

Well, thanks to Recount and observation we have managed to single out 3 "of those people". Recount shows the damage done in ghost form as pet damage. That's why I was wondering if there's any way to get that in WWS as well. Oh well, I guess it's back to "pray the right people get the debuff".

Thanks for the response.

With 3 rogues, a dps warrior, a hance shammy, and both tanks in the raid, your lone hunter should be specced survival for expose weakness and should definitely get improved hunter's mark. This will boost physical dps and tank threat by a decent amount. All he needs to do is switch out some hit pieces and maximize his agility as much as possible. The heroism the hunter/tank/healer group received is a waste compared to the dps it could provide if given to the melee or either caster group (I'm looking at your final attempt, i don't know if you did that every time). Switch out of the group, pop it, switch back. These two changes alone should provide substantially more dps for your raid.

Also, you don't really have enough dps yet to bring 3 spriests to brutallus. Give them to your tank healers for sure, then mages after that since you don't have a ret pally for JoW.

Few random points (a lot of other good posts so far):
Locklocklock was bad and let himself die, wasting a lot of the tree's heals.

23:12'36.974 Brutallus's Meteor Slash hits Locklocklock for 2500 Fire <-- 8 Soakers, good
23:12'37.318 Locklocklock is afflicted by Meteor Slash
23:12'49.053 Brutallus's Meteor Slash hits Locklocklock for 4375 Fire <-- Still 8 soakers
23:12'49.349 Locklocklock is afflicted by Meteor Slash (2)
23:12'55.833 Locklocklock is afflicted by Burn <-- Got Burned with 6 seconds until the 3rd slash - bad timing.
23:13'00.276 Brutallus's Meteor Slash hits Locklocklock for 6250 Fire
23:13'00.630 Locklocklock is afflicted by Meteor Slash (3) <-- Didn't move fast enough to avoid the 3rd slash.. not the end of the world but it makes things tight. Depending on his position, quite possibly not his fault.
He stops casting for about 4 seconds at this point, running to safe spot.
23:13'39.802 Ability : Burn's Burn dots Locklocklock for 5200 Fire <-- Last nasty tick of Burn and the only one for 5200, ~40 seconds after last slash, 14 seconds left on Burn
23:13'50.102 Brutallus's Meteor Slash hits Locklocklock for 2500 Fire <-- Still 8 soakers
23:13'50.426 Locklocklock is afflicted by Meteor Slash <-- Ouch.
23:13'52.863 Locklocklock dies
23:14'27.441 Locklocklock gains aura K'iru's Song of Victory <-- 35 seconds to res him (at 2k dps, thats 70k dmg, nearly 1% on Brut).

All could have been avoided if he didn't run back in for a slash. Given that he ate the 3rd slash, didn't take a slash for 50 seconds and then promptly died *just* before Burn was about to wear off.. he either didn't move at all or moved back too early. Since he knew it was getting taunted off anyways, he could of safely just stood there for a bit, moved at his leasure to a safe spot (tapping on the way), then moved back right *after* the 1st slash went out on his side.

Daroth had a similarily bad death to Burn.

23:11'33.501 Daroth is afflicted by Burn
23:12'00.032 Brutallus's Meteor Slash hits Daroth for 2223 Fire
23:12'11.990 Brutallus's Meteor Slash hits Daroth for 3889 Fire
23:12'21.240 Daroth dies

He's a damn tree with instant cast heals. He didn't move in the first 27 seconds of burn and got slashed - fail. Perhaps he thought he was out of the way.. at least move before the SECOND slash. He was the first guy to get Burnt and the second guy was a mage who ice blocked it. Yes he would of been taking 75% more damage than normal for the last 33 seconds of burn, but he would have been the ONLY person getting burnt aside from a priest in their first 20 seconds (3k dmg over 20 seconds isn't exactly life threatening). Completely 100% avoidable.


Mckinley obviously had a bad group - add on top of that getting burnt 3 times (had to run once since block was on CD). Needing a full Evoc and still being 10k mana regen behind the other mages.. its obvious to see why his dps was so low.

Consider having groups like:

Mage
Mage
Mage
Spriest
Ele Sham

Resto Sham
Moonkin
Warlock
Warlock
Warlock

Partway through the fight, swap the moonkin and spriest. Make sure you lust the warlocks earlier in the fight (about 2:15 in, so they get in timed with 2nd usage of trinkets). After lust fades (about halfway), swap the Spriest and Moonkin. Lust the mages at 15-20%. This way both groups get Moonkin during lust, mages get a 20% lust and both groups get some mana. The big loser in this situation is the Moonkin - however he used 3x Destro pots last fight and could switch to mana pots. Make sure the Resto shaman mana tides just before the moonkin leaves the group. Hell, give him an innervate if he's desperate - he wouldn't be a bad choice.

Also note, your healers aren't exactly chugging mana pots. They should be. Depending on how your tanks are and how skilled your healers are with their mana consumption, spriests aren't always necessary. This assumes your healers aren't being cheap though. If the only reason they *need* spriests is because they don't wanna go through mana pots, give them a shake. You could always swap things around such that you use my groups above, and then swap the healer's spriest with the moonkin at 50%. This would up the dps and just means healers need to pot a bit.

You guys have 3 druids, but only 2 innervates. Whats worse.. they went to a resto druid and HOLY PALADIN. Resto druids should be fine without their own innervate (note the single mana pot and missing mana spring the entire fight despite being in a resto shaman group). Holy paladins.... just no. Give it to a holy priest instead. Hell, you coulda given it to that mage and got better use out of it. That said, at least that druid *used* their innervate.

Hunter should be Surv - drop GoA in that group (helps the tanks too). If your warrior is REALLY struggling for threat, see if the Resto Shaman can "twist" once per tank-taunt (it means 1 totem per 36 seconds instead of every 2 minutes). WF the warrior, GoA the druid. Also have the druid start tanking. This of course assumes you are a guild with roughly normal tanks (ie the druid puts out more TPS).

Rogues:
Daxxii is probably your worst rogue. He should stop using Eviscerate - fast. Daxxii did 35k dmg in 20 Eviscerates. Thats 1750 dmg per Evis (average after crits). Feanaro did 2280 dmg per Rupture. Eviscerate costs 40% MORE energy (25 vs 35). Use rupture. Daxxii also was using too tight of a cycle, likely 3s/5r or something. He should switch to 5s/5r or 4s/5r so he stops letting SnD drop so much. 11 times in a single fight is laughable, he shouldn't really be letting it drop, therefore you should see SnD gains - 1. The other 2 rogues weren't great, but better than Daxxii.

Why the hell did Feanaro Shiv 26 times? Thats retarded never Shiv. Sinister Strike only for combo points. Fix that fast - he has ZERO excuses. Any reason he gives you is wrong. Period.

A very minor nitpick, but Ravatus shouldn't Garrote after vanishing.. just sinister Strike again. Its cheaper and does the same ore more dmg on a debuffed mob. Starting off with Garrote is a good call, but don't bother doing it after vanish.

Daxxii should get a Shard of Contempt - its a lot better than Madness (which really isn't good to begin with). He'll be just over expertise cap with his belt, but it should still come out on top. Optionally, WSC or AToL are both viable alternatives. If he gives you shit, remind him he lost (on dps) to a rogue with a 1.5spd 95.7 dps OH on a demon boss.

All 3 of them should buy the Badge ring, replacing Akama Ring (Daxxii), Hyjal Rep ring (Feanaro), and SSC ring (Ravatus). You only need 2 blue gems, not 3 to meet the Meta Req (Daxxii and Feanaro). Ravatus should get the socket bonus on Gloves of the Immortal Dusk via Pyrestones. Surefooted is not a great PvE enchant, Cat's Swiftness or Dexterity will be more dps (pending if its a movement fight or not).

There are other random things to nitpick about on your rogues, but nothing more than 5 dps here and there that's a quick fix.

Your enhancement shaman is failure. He should be pulling about 80% of the dps rogues are doing. The Arms warrior is right about where he should be at ~67% of the rogues while doing Demo Shout but not T-Clap. Your melee in general are being REALLY cheap. The rogues only used about 3 demonslaying pots the entire night - at least they were on your best attempt. Looks like the arms warrior stopped using them after 12 demonslaying exlirs - none were used on the best attempt. Your enhancement shaman didn't use a single one all night. He didn't use a single Haste pot all night, ate a flask and a BLOODBERRY?! elixir. I doubt he's twisting based on your groups crit rate and his very limited usage of Shamanistic Rage. Basically, this guy is a deadbeat who won't pay for anything more than repairs and a single flask all night, while other guys are chugging through likely 40+ pots and exlirs/flasks. Oh, and he has 4 blue gems despite needing only 2. Tell him to NOT earthshock. He's eating up Stormstrike charges that your Elemental shaman can use. As a side note, it hurts your rogues deadly poison dmg as well (nature dots such as poison benefit from the 20% increased nature damage without consuming charges). Have him rotate Flameshock (which is more dmg anyways) and Earthshock (well after Stormstrike charges are gone anyways). His dps and the elemental shaman's dps will go up.

Boss Debuffs:
Faerie Fire fell off too much, moonkin needs to get a bit better at keeping it on. Its worth very roughly about 1500 raid dps when its up, so any time its not up he's effectively doing 0 dps (considering he puts out ~1500 himself).

Scorch stack appears to have fallen once (and then not get fully re-applied). Perhaps the mage who was supposed to refresh it died first and the other two didn't notice and only got it back to 4 by time they died? If it fell off in the middle.. not good. I don't see any full resists so someone just didn't refresh it in time.

Simple question, that I hope you can help out. There probably is an obvious answer that I overlooked - but "why do I still get *miss* in boss fights on yellow attacks?"

WWS Loading...

As yo ucan see I am enhance, resto subspec and have around 200 Hit rating from gear on top of that.

/thanks

Parries and dodges show as misses on wws

So it does..

I can click on the attack and get the breakdown in parry, dodge and miss.

Thanks

I just sorta took his word for it - didn't actually check :S
Double-checking.. ya, he was Fury and should be arms for rDPS (although, if he has bad Arms gear and is significantly better at Fury, with only a modest number of physical dps'ers it is debatable which is better). Given that he was fury, his dps was low, it should be about ~85-90% of what a rogue can push out in equivalent gear.

Oh, and yea.. should definitely use Solarian for rDPS purposes.

He's got a fast sword OH, should have a slow one and then switch to the faster one for execute range. Slower OH means more dmg from WW. Given that he's using S3 stuff, they have equal stats/dps otherwise so the slower one will be better. It has the unlikely potential of rage starvation.. but at this gear lvl it shouldn't really be a concern.

Could anyone that has killed M'uru take a look at this:
WWS Loading...

And provide some advice for improving our DPS? We are missing about 4-5k raid dps to be at a point where I'd be comfortable.

Points I've already identified:
1) Wassp's dps sucks. We won't be using him, but sadly that means we can't get a 2nd enhancement shaman in the raid. Resto shaman should be plenty in a hunter group, no? We're planning to do a hunter side in P1 next go around to see if we can't get some more ranged DPS to improve P2.

2) Crueltist died very early from hitting the boss before the tank did. Shit. Battle rezzed him, and we moved on.

3) Spots 13-20 are doing sub 1500 DPS.. I had hoped only the tanks would be this low.

4) The DPS time numbers on our warlocks seem extraordinarily low. Are we giving up too much having them run to enslave, then move into position, then start? They are doing massive DPS when they are hitting the boss (WWS is showing their DPS + Void spawn).

Assuming we drop Wassp, drop Crueltist, add another very good hunter and mage.. will this be enough of a change to not require 80 seconds to get him dead? We'd like to kill him comfortably around 65 seconds.

I would be extremely grateful just for some WWS links of recent kills along with your raid positioning.

Since, as you pointed out, you took more fire damage in your lower total damage kill the extra damage had to come from physical attacks. You took 383 more damage per hit (either thanks to the RNG or CoW/Demo Shout falling off), which accounts for a little over 22k damage from the first 58 hits.

The real killer, though, is that you took 19 more hits in the second report, which comes out to just under 110k damage, in a fight that lasted just 6.4% longer. You avoided 3% fewer attacks in the high damage log, but the big problem was allowing Azgalor to take 21.4% more swings in a fight that lasted only 6.4% longer. Looking at Azgalor's debuffs it appears that he wasn't getting consistently Thunderclapped in the second log. The first log shows him getting hit with TC 3 times (and I believe all applications of TC show up in WWS, correct?), whereas the second log shows 0 TC's. Parry-hastes may also have come into play, with attackers other than you getting parried 9 times in the first log and 28 times in the second log.

I didn't think to look at the amount of parries. The three tclaps vs. zero before are typical; we usually have melee on the doomguards while ranged takes care of the boss until fairly late in the game, so that's not that surprising and not something I can particularly fix. But the parry hastes could easily account for that many hits.

Thanks!

Just wanted to post this WWS(Gorefiend) to get some opinions on how well we are advancing and if we are ready for some of the later BT fights.

Just kind of a your on track or your not type thing.

Wow Web Stats

There are also some Bloodboil attempts in there. It was our first time seeing him and we were trying to use a paladin as an offtank. He either put out too much threat as the MT or not enough as the OT. I think we will try and use a warrior instead next time.

Edit: I meant to add this is tier 5 gear and badge gear. I think one of our dps has his tier 6 gloves.

I don't see why you would have any issues with the rest of BT. At the time of our first Illidan kill we were averaging 21k rDPS on Teron.

removed

Hey all.

We have had a decent run through BT thus far, and have kind of hit a stumbling block on Bloodboil. I don't think it's anything healing/dps-wise, but people bad decisions that are costing us.

I just wanted to run it through a few other sets of eyes before I jumped to talk to our raid leader.

Thanks!

WWS report for Bloodboil