Where it says "Browse", mouse over to the right of that, you'll see a drop down box that has "Browse log file" at the bottom.

Chat mods don't affect the recording of the combat log in any way. What you have is someone with a clock that runs either fast or slow and ends up skewed from everybody else.

All I can think of is that we're an English guild with a few European players so they're an hour ahead but I wouldn't of thought we were the only guild who would be having this problem if this was the case. The way I'm tracking it down now is eliminating people who could be upping bad logs by checking which logs are right/wrong per parse.

I don't think the log picks up Grull gaining the grow buff very well.

Also, the above analysis of why their tank died is wrong. I think it would be wrong even if he was dieing to reverb on every attempt, but that's not the case anyway. There's no reverb on most of those.

This really belongs in the Gruul thread, but I think HoTs (other than earth shield, no excuse for no earth shield if there's a resto shaman present) tend to be overrated for reverb. It's nice to have them, but I've seen a number of parses where the problem is clearly that someone's said "reverb in 5!" and everyone's scrambled to cast renew/rejuv on the MT and OT and kind of missed the idea of making sure the tank is actually topped off at the start of the reverb. Asking healers to try to keep HoTs up approaching reverb is good, but making healers focus on it TOO much is a step in the wrong direction for mine.

If the tank doesn't go into a reverb at full HP (and that's not due to the hit landing a millisecond before reverb), that's the problem there, not HoTs.

Also, your MT did a couple of bonehead things.

For example: try 1. The MT here gets a crushing blow right after shatter (shield block, where are you? That one's the tank's fault). He does not receive a direct heal for *6 seconds*- it's not a reverb, a druid starts a lifebloom (ticking at 232, so it's not making a huge dent on a 6600 crushing) and then a rejuv during those 6 seconds, same druid- what are all the other healers actually doing during that time? Someone lands a flash heal, then the tank is hit again, two more HoTs start, another crushing- yell at your tank, he's hitting heroic strike but forgetting to shield block at all-

Oh wait. Your MT switched to berserker to beserker rage during ground slam, and forgot to switch back. NOW he switches back. It doesn't actually matter, since he takes another melee hit and all that's happened is the druid refreshed his lifebloom, a priest cast renew and a priest cast PoM, but he's taking 6k hits and no direct heals, so those little HoT ticks aren't even close to getting the job done.

Oh, and did I mention that even after your MT switched back to defensive, he found time for another heroic strike but no shield block? Oh dear.

There are 2 direct heals in a 15 second period there, one greater, one flash, it's a disgrace. But because Gruul is at low grows there anyway, your MT still would have survived it if not for his own screwups. He had plenty of time to try a potion or last stand, too.



Try 2: There's definitely no reverb because your MT is taking new heals right to the end. they just aren't big enough. 8475, gets a couple of flashes and a couple of lifebloom ticks. 7k, HoTs and a healing potion. 11k crushing is goodnight gracie. THat last hit was fast, and tells me that someone got in front of Gruul and got parried. However, there also need to be greater heals landing after that 8475 hit, and there wasn't. Lots of DPS dead at this point already, so I assume this was quite high growth numbers. Your OT was also either dead or missing, since your MT parries a Hurtful a little bit before the end.

Try 3: Reverb hits 1 second before he dies. He doesn't have shield block up and takes a 8544 and a crushing for 13k less than 1 second later. First: SHIELD BLOCK. Second: someone got parried again! Make them go behind Gruul FFS! I don't think two extra renews would have saved him from that kind of hitting!

Try 4: No reverb. Your MT gets hit for 7k by a shatter from someone but gets healed back quickly (a holy light and a swiftmend) and then takes 9k, 7k and 7.5k hits within 1.7 seconds. PARRIES!


Try 5: This is the only one where he got slowly killed during a reverb. Many lower grows than the others, and just took consistent 5-6k shots with one renew ticking. There might have just been time before the last hit for someone to have got a NS off if they were quicker. This is where you miss stuff like Earth Shield, which would have saved him, but it's also the kind of moment he should have Last Stand available for.


Overall your biggest problem is really your early death problems for DPS, since you aren't within coo-ee of a kill by the point your tank and healers are clearly struggling to keep the MT alive.

Forgive me if this has been covered, but from looking at some recent WWS reports it seems that Prayer of Mending does not count towards a priests healing on the meters, is this true?

It counts as a heal by the person it procs on. The threat accrues to that person, as well.

I run the logs for our raid and am the MT, and every grow is there in my logs and is reflected on the WWS reports. It may be that this particular log entry isn't affected by any of the known settings to increase log range, but that I catch them all because I am close.

Topping off is important (and it's obvious the tank wasn't topped going into the reverb on some of those), but our ability to consistently kill Gruul went up when we started emphasizing HoT's for reverbs. Admittedly if everybody is panicing at the 5 second warning that's not good, but with enough warning, everybody has time to get one up at staggered intervals. Many of the healers have gone to keeping HoTs up full time which also helps tremendously when they end up out of range following a ground slam. We went through a lot of heartbreaking single digit% wipes before this, because topping off is not enough to consistently get a tank through a reverb at high growth counts.

I was under the assumption that the program automatically sorted out trash. Maybe I'm wrong, sorry . Should I be using some spell as a tracker (such as gaining Track Elementals or something) and then manually cutting logs and uploading 1 log for each attempt? Or maybe just splicing out all the trash mob stuff manually? We also had 4 people sync'd for this log, so I'm not all too sure why we'd be missing Growths.. My combat log range is set to 200 in config.wtf, not sure about the others, though.

I really want to thank all the people who have helped analyze this log. We'll be going back in Saturday to try to implement some of the suggestions made here.

It does. I was able to get to all the individual attempts just fine, I'm not sure what problem Malan had.

The MT dying issue is separate from the "people in the raid" dying though. You're going to have a tough time until you lick that, and unfortunately, there's little that a WWS report can help with figuring that out.

Edit: I looked at who was taking the most damage on try 1 and it was the druid, so I assumed the druid was the MT. Tries 2-4 have the warrior Groo taking the most damage, try 5 the druid again. Were you swapping things up, or was one of them the designated MT for all tries and the other ended up in that spot due to early tank death?

My fault, I'm used to dealing with the local hosted ones not the fancy ones.

Lysander, tell your enhance shaman to stop using a 1.6 speed OH. Get him into some of the heroics and get him a 2.6 drop or get him a Runic Hammer crafted until he can get an Arena 2.6 speed. He's severely gimping his DPS by using a fast OH. It may help if you can point him to the Enhance Shaman theorycraft threads over in the class/mechanics subforum.
Enhance Shaman: The Collected Works of Theorycraft, Vol I

His talent build is bad. He's missing out 3% hit from the resto tree and increased totem radius in that tree as well. 2handed weapons are not helping him raid. Have him run heroic mana tombs for the totem off the first boss. Get him a bloodlust brooch from heroic badges and get him to farm Black Morass for the Hourglass trinket.

He's missing an enchant on that nice epic chest AND on his epic cloak - for shame. I'd be all up in his butt for that.

And as noted before - always always ALWAYS put the enhance shaman in the Fury/MS warrior group and ALWAYS have him drop Windfury for said warrior, no matter what the rest of the group is.

Finally - you guys had an ass ton of Paladins on those attempts but the JoW and JoL procs are very low. I'd suggest you get them to establish a rotation on keeping it up, or just yell at them more.

Warrior (Groo) was MT, Druid (Kuroneko) was OT. Early tank death caused some switching around, though.

Thanks for the advice Malan, I'll pass that onto our Shaman.

That's my feeling on the fight as well, our own raid DPS averages at about 3k lower on Void Reaver than on pretty much anything else out there, both our Void Reaver kills were also barely scraped through, while we're always easily on target on Hydross when it comes to DPS.

It's a better comparison with Gruul, your first few Gruul kills your raid's DPS will usually be lower than it is on your later Gruul kills; all because people need to comfortable with dealing with the encounter's abilities. It picks up as you do it more.

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...ohlmcfiw&ab=43
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=cyiajohlmcfiw&a=15
There's your DPS problem right there. Smack your shaman upside the head for dropping Grace of Air instead of Windfury for that warrior. If he gives you any guff about it, drop him for being a stupid enhancement shaman.

I'm not going to hunt this down in the armory to figure out why, but your Enhance shaman has 62% of his dmg from white hits and only 23% from Windfury. Something is terribly wrong with that, the ratio is usually around 40% white dmg and 30% Windfury. I'm guessing he's doing something stupid like putting Rockbiter on his Offhand.

Edit - ok I gave in to my curiosity. Sweet jeebuz please tell me that your enhance shaman isn't trying to DPS in a raid using a Gorehowl.

Getting that MS warrior to respec Fury wouldn't hurt either. MS is "ok", but if you've got low raid DPS that spec just isn't bring all the power of the class to the table.

Malan, funny thing is the ROGUES are insisting on having GoA over WF, something about backstab not critting giving them less combo points, Nurmjo said he'd drop what his group wanted a few weeks ago...

edit : oh, and Tarquin was with hunters, so that GoA is okay

edit#2 : Nah, he just like showing off with his Gorehowl .. He has S1 Axe with Mongoose and Emerald Ripper with 20 str I believe

They're stupid. Your group should be Warrior, Enhance Shaman, some assortment of rogues. Tell the shaman to drop windfury, and tell the rogues to shut the hell up. You can point them over to the class mechanics subforum where its pretty much universal agreement that WF Totem will outperform GoA for nearly every rogue spec - and comes *damn* close on like the one spec where GoA is slightly better.

Also look into whether your shaman had the 2H equipped during the fight, if he intends to put out real DPS he needs to be DW.

what about the feral druid? with hunters, or with the melee (warrior/shaman/rogue) group? When we bring 2 DPS warr, both with the enhancement shammy, or one in each group?

Imagine we bring 2 DPS warr, 3 rogues, 2 ferals and 2 hunters, how would you spread that out, assuming we have as much shamans as we want to? (I'm the 2nd feral, usually tanking)

Yea, we investigated it on this, and it turns out one of the Druids was running an irregular clock causing these double-up issues. Sorry, was too eager to show off

Our WWS guy has recompiled the log and it's now as it should be, as far as I can tell. Still amazing DPS by the hunter I mentioned earlier, we love our tank/spanks and if you don't get a Shadow of Death debuff for the entire fight you're golden for the overall damage.

I should probably include the link again as well:
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...&s=15619-15914

Alright, thanks a lot Malen

Well one of your issues is that two of your rogues are not a raiding spec. 17/0/44 is not even remotely close to being a decent raid spec. And Hidro should try 41/20/0 if he really wants to raid as mutilate (he's going to run into issues with this spec on hydross and void reaver). 600-700 dps is pretty low for rogues. But regardless, WF is still better for the group if you have a warrior and at least two rogues. Also talk to the rogues about their combat cycle and see if they even use one. If they need help on that I'd suggest sending them to the rogue thread in the class forums. Pending them being willing to learn.

You need to take Wrexsoul and Raizel and put them through some sort of mage bootcamp. Arcane spec is just not as good as deep fire until you have the 2 piece Tier 5 bonus. They are wasting tons of mana and losing DPS by spamming scorch (without even having the Imp Scorch talent) and Arcane Missiles of all things. Get them to respec to a standard 10/48/3 build, spam fireball and scorch enough to keep the debuff up. They both need to heavily invest in +hit gear and gems, their miss rates on some of those fights are embarrassingly high. Finally, Raizel has 375 tailoring but only one piece of tailored gear? It's some of the best caster stuff outside of the Black Temple, get him to craft the rest of his spellfire set.

Zildaren is doing pretty well, following what I listed above. And except when he died early, he was your top mage every time. Once or twice, he even died before your other mages and still beat them. Coincidence?

My guild is starting to work on Vashj, but I think at this point we simply do not have the dps to take her down. I'm not sure what the issue is, so I thought I would ask you all if you can notice something that we're doing wrong. This (link) is our most recent Lurker kill - it seems like one of the more straightforward dps fights in SSC, yet we only manage 8200 raid dps. Here's Karathress (link), another decent dps benchmark. We have been taking 8 healers, mostly for the Morogrim & Karathress fights, because it seems like they are needed. If we can cut down to 7 healers that would be one obvious DPS boost. I'm not sure if our rogues are doing something wrong, but they never seem to be very prominent on the meters.

Quick question about warlocks, dots and the "DPS time" statistic.

Last night my guild had our first attempts / kill at void reaver. By the time we got around to the kill, we'd had people orbing eachother all night, so our focus was on "don't be a retard, err on the side of caution" - as a result, my DPS time dropped to something dumb like 85%. In relation to the other casters, that's one of the worst DPS times, but I still had good overall damage.

I guess my question is does that 85% DPS time mean that 15% of the time I didn't have any kind of damage going on the boss? If so, I suck - as the only time I can remember not having something up there was when I got (what seemed to be) targeted for the orbs 3x in a row - which had me running all over creation, then trying to get back to my spriest afterwords b/c I'd eaten one or something.

EDIT: http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...&s=13219-13792

There lies a drawback of WWS - its statistics aren't very well documented in some cases, we kind of have to guess at what the author is implying.