I see a lot of warlocks in these logs aren't using either Curse of Shadow or Curse of the Elements. My rule of thumb is that if there's two or more classes that will benefit, it's worth having it up since it'll contribute more DPS to the raid than Curse of Doom will.
Am I mistaken? Am I missing something? Also, there seems to be no consensus (reading these combat logs, anyway) about whether it's worth using all your dots in a full Affliction build. Some people use Siphon Life, some people don't bother. Same with Immolate. Is there any definitive best practise as to which will get higher DPS?
Often, CoS/CoE doesn't show up on the logs for whatever reason. You can just sorta guess who's using utility curses by who doesn't have a damage curse in their log.
As for SL/Immo, Blunted had it right. Do keep in mind that if you're looking at Void Reaver, he's immune to Siphon Life.
Your mages all have weird specs, and a very wide range of gear. Kech in particular is in almost full blues, is he a relatively new recruit? Unless your mages have the 2 piece Tier 5 bonus and/or you are seriously learning Al'ar, there is no reason for them to do anything but spec 10/48/3 and spam fireball. It's been theorycrafted to death in the class discussion forum. Speccing deep arcane, or a weird fire/arcane hybrid that misses the best talents of both trees, is just hurting DPS. If they insist on staying arcane, at least have them build a more standard spec and learn a spell rotation that doesn't involve so many arcane missiles. There's a thread on "how to make arcane work" right now with some good tips. They need to invest heavily +hit gear, too.
I'd also question why your healers got the shadow priest over the mages (with the caveat that I don't know the VR fight well). Is the "melee stay in" strat taxing their mana? If you can afford to do it, mages and hunters get the biggest boost from the SP by far.
Edit: Also, get them to drop the shitty gems. +8 intellect, and the mana restoring meta gem are not the best choices. In general you want the +9 damage gem (and +12 damage or spell haste meta gem) unless there is a really compelling set bonus.
Last edited by Docjowles : 07/05/07 at 10:45 AM.
Reason: Gems
Your enhancement shaman's damage is just pathetic. Even running in/out like you said you did... that's just terrible. What the heck was he doing casting Lightning bolts? He used Stormstrike once and only hit Void Reaver eleven times? So out of 4 minutes of presence in the fight he spent around 3 1/2 minutes minimum healing and throwing lightning bolts.
That guy was a waste of your raid slot on that attempt, plain and simple.
Edit - removed commentary on the wrong armory entry
Edit - http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/ch...spine&n=Nilahr
Wow.. just... wow. The guy hasn't even spent all of his talent points. That is seriously inexcusable. But he took 2 Handed weapons, so its ok! He can still PvP!
And his gear is at pre-KZ levels. I would not take him in that level of gear to anything above Maulgar.
Ahh ok, his earlier response had said they only had one shaman so I just assumed that the WWS had been anonymous names. In which case I really have no idea what he was doing since his gear is perfectly fine, although he does have some silly enchant/gem choices - +AP instead of +Str on bracers, and +Resilience gem in his shoulders. And his healing totem is not the best choice for enhance. Still hard to understand why he was casting lightning bolts at Void Reaver, surely he would know how patheticly bad his DPS would be using that?
Less early deaths, and a little more DPS from some of the bottom few and you'd have been there.
1050 more DPS would have done it. That enhancement shaman acutally doing decent would be 400 more. The 2 that died half way through would account for another 500 dps, and the MS warrior that died in the first third of the fight (likely 75% or so) should have output at least 400 more....you would have killed him with around 30 seconds to spare.
Even 2-3 people can make the difference on enrage timers.
For giggles, here's a Gruul parse from last week for us
11 growths...and only happened after 2 wipes due to the main tank dying at 30%....first time we haven't one shot him in 2 months.
And our third VR kill...best yet by a wide margin. Killed with over a minute to spare, where as our last 2 kills were right at, or after the timer ran out.
I would have been higher...but my bloody paladins keep giving me light instead of salvation, so i spent the 75%-40% stretch pretty much auto attacking until i yelled at them on vent.
Your enhancement shaman's damage is just pathetic. Even running in/out like you said you did... that's just terrible. What the heck was he doing casting Lightning bolts? He used Stormstrike once and only hit Void Reaver eleven times? So out of 4 minutes of presence in the fight he spent around 3 1/2 minutes minimum healing and throwing lightning bolts.
That guy was a waste of your raid slot on that attempt, plain and simple.
Edit - removed commentary on the wrong armory entry
11 times? Am I reading the parse wrong? He hit voidreaver 2 times from auto attack and once from stormstrike, never procced Unleashed Rage and was in the MT group while the rogues were limping along without him.
My guild has recently been encountering some problems tanking Gruul and Magtheridon, and since I have a good example of the issue in a WWS parse, I figured I'd drop this question here.
We've been encountering MT death on these fights for what seems to be inexplicable reasons, but maybe I am missing something in the parse that someone else can catch. If you take a look, you will see that our tank (Malex) gets hit with a 10k cleave at 04:53'55.843, followed by a 7k crushing at 04:53'57.484, followed by an 8k crushing at 04:53'58.640. So basically, he got hit for 25k in 3 seconds.
Several questions come to mind. One, are my healers supposed to heal through 25k in 3 sec? Two, why is he getting crushed? Malex gains Shield Block at 04:53'48.265, 4 and 5 seconds respectively before the two crushing blows. Furthermore, it is my understanding that if a gain such as shield block (or Slice and Dice in my case as a rogue) is refreshed before it wears off, it doesn't register as a gain in the combat log and consequently, the WWS parse—therefore Shield Block is still up at this point. Third, Can I stop this from happening? This problem has even cropped up in Gruul the past two weeks, like on growth 7, which is really pathetic, because we can usually hold it together and get the kill anyways with our Hurtful Stike tank taking over, and another warrior/druid taking over the hurtful strikes, although it is messy. This problem has really only started happening within the past two weeks.
I'm quite surprised how poorly your mages did on Gruul. Sinnerz needs more hit but other than that there gear and spec is fine and there is nothing obviously wrong with the spells they're casting. They don't have shadow priest but the fight was short enough that I'd be surprised if they were that limited. On Void Reaver, Hazrd would have been comfortably ahead of the other 2 mages if he hadn't died early despite having a build that many would consider to be slightly inferior.
Not actually a member of Refusion on Burning Blade.
11 times? Am I reading the parse wrong? He hit voidreaver 2 times from auto attack and once from stormstrike, never procced Unleashed Rage and was in the MT group while the rogues were limping along without him.
Sigh. Smack talking in the morning leads to errors sorry =\ You're totally right, he only hit Void Reaver twice. Didn't die in the fight and output next to no damage and only some pretty crappy healing. Wonder what he was doing the other 4 min or so of the fight.
Yeah, he's deep frost and is wrecking the fire mages. I'm of the opinion it's a skill and knowledge thing, he's a much better player then our other mages. Oh, and the water elemental's damage doesn't seem to be attributed to him either.
My guild has recently been encountering some problems tanking Gruul and Magtheridon, and since I have a good example of the issue in a WWS parse, I figured I'd drop this question here.
We've been encountering MT death on these fights for what seems to be inexplicable reasons, but maybe I am missing something in the parse that someone else can catch. If you take a look, you will see that our tank (Malex) gets hit with a 10k cleave at 04:53'55.843, followed by a 7k crushing at 04:53'57.484, followed by an 8k crushing at 04:53'58.640. So basically, he got hit for 25k in 3 seconds.
Several questions come to mind. One, are my healers supposed to heal through 25k in 3 sec? Two, why is he getting crushed? Malex gains Shield Block at 04:53'48.265, 4 and 5 seconds respectively before the two crushing blows. Furthermore, it is my understanding that if a gain such as shield block (or Slice and Dice in my case as a rogue) is refreshed before it wears off, it doesn't register as a gain in the combat log and consequently, the WWS parse—therefore Shield Block is still up at this point. Third, Can I stop this from happening? This problem has even cropped up in Gruul the past two weeks, like on growth 7, which is really pathetic, because we can usually hold it together and get the kill anyways with our Hurtful Stike tank taking over, and another warrior/druid taking over the hurtful strikes, although it is messy. This problem has really only started happening within the past two weeks.
Am I missing something in the logs? Help!
In that parse it looks like your tank just didn't refresh shield block, because if you look he doesn't block a single hit in the last 6-7 seconds that he lived. I also see no ironshield potions, so your tank is being pretty cheap there if Mag is still giving you trouble. On top of that, in the last 3 seconds the only heals that landed on your tank were two flash of lights and a couple of HoT ticks. The first Paladin could have flashed again before the last hit landed with plenty of time to spare, your druid could have swiftmended, your priest could have shielded him or flash healed, your long-cast heals were nowhere to be seen. This could be fixed in many ways.
My guild has recently been encountering some problems tanking Gruul and Magtheridon, and since I have a good example of the issue in a WWS parse, I figured I'd drop this question here.
We've been encountering MT death on these fights for what seems to be inexplicable reasons, but maybe I am missing something in the parse that someone else can catch. If you take a look, you will see that our tank (Malex) gets hit with a 10k cleave at 04:53'55.843, followed by a 7k crushing at 04:53'57.484, followed by an 8k crushing at 04:53'58.640. So basically, he got hit for 25k in 3 seconds.
Several questions come to mind. One, are my healers supposed to heal through 25k in 3 sec? Two, why is he getting crushed? Malex gains Shield Block at 04:53'48.265, 4 and 5 seconds respectively before the two crushing blows. Furthermore, it is my understanding that if a gain such as shield block (or Slice and Dice in my case as a rogue) is refreshed before it wears off, it doesn't register as a gain in the combat log and consequently, the WWS parse—therefore Shield Block is still up at this point. Third, Can I stop this from happening? This problem has even cropped up in Gruul the past two weeks, like on growth 7, which is really pathetic, because we can usually hold it together and get the kill anyways with our Hurtful Stike tank taking over, and another warrior/druid taking over the hurtful strikes, although it is messy. This problem has really only started happening within the past two weeks.
Am I missing something in the logs? Help!
Looking back in the log most of your healers are using small heals on the MT. Reene seems to be the only one using a large heal. When the tank is taking 10k cleaves and 8k crushes flash of light for 1700 just isn't going to be enough. I think you would do better if some of your healers switched to using larger heals.
Is this the shaman you're talking about? Diomedes?
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Khaz'goroth&n=Diomedes
Have him replace that Off Hand with a 2.6 speed - he can read a summary of why in this thread http://elitistjerks.com/showthread.p...505#post392505
He's got some horrible gem choices on his gear. Spell Crit for an Enhance Shaman on his bracers is a no-go. The rest of his gems are +AP and +Agility - both bad choices. He needs to replace every single one of those with +Str or +Str/Crt (a good mix of the 2 is best), and those are pretty much the only 2 gems he should be using.
I'm quite surprised how poorly your mages did on Gruul. Sinnerz needs more hit but other than that there gear and spec is fine and there is nothing obviously wrong with the spells they're casting. They don't have shadow priest but the fight was short enough that I'd be surprised if they were that limited. On Void Reaver, Hazrd would have been comfortably ahead of the other 2 mages if he hadn't died early despite having a build that many would consider to be slightly inferior.
I think their low avg fireball number is the key. 2.4k is really low, it should be several hundred more. Are they having trouble keeping up imp scorch? Perhaps have a shaman go into their group, and pickup a shadow priest
In that parse it looks like your tank just didn't refresh shield block, because if you look he doesn't block a single hit in the last 6-7 seconds that he lived. I also see no ironshield potions, so your tank is being pretty cheap there if Mag is still giving you trouble. On top of that, in the last 3 seconds the only heals that landed on your tank were two flash of lights and a couple of HoT ticks. The first Paladin could have flashed again before the last hit landed with plenty of time to spare, your druid could have swiftmended, your priest could have shielded him or flash healed, your long-cast heals were nowhere to be seen. This could be fixed in many ways.
With regards to shield block, does WWS record Shield Block leaving Malex, or is the evidence for Shield Block being down simply the fact that the tank was crushed? If he had refreshed it while it was still active, I know it wouldn't have shown in the logs because there would be nothing to gain...
Also, I had two healers, Catinne (druid) and Reene (paladin) complain to me that they had heals finish casting but fail to land on that particular attempt, presumably due to lag. Either way, I am very appreciative of the suggestions regarding having someone assigned to bigger heals, which doesn't seem to be the case for that log. Admittedly we are a little short on healing leadership in the guild atm, having only one healer officer right now. Anything else we can do, beyond ironshield potions, shield block, changing up our healing strategy to allow for more big heals?
With regards to shield block, does WWS record Shield Block leaving Malex, or is the evidence for Shield Block being down simply the fact that the tank was crushed? If he had refreshed it, I know it wouldn't have shown in the logs...
It's not showing fades, the evidence is that about 7 seconds after the last shield block gain, he is HIT by a cleave, then CRUSHED a second later. There were no attacks blocked in between, so I can only assume that he didn't have it up, since he couldn't have been hit or crushed if he had. Other than that, your druid especially shouldn't have complained about having a heal casting. There is no swiftmend in the last 15 seconds of that log, and a rejuv on the tank. Also, it looks like Catinne casted a new Lifebloom AFTER the first two hits on your tank, which wuold have left him at very low health. As I mentioned before, your priests should be shielding reactively as well. Just pretty bad judgement all around.
Edit: Looking at it the rejuv just ticked off, and he/she should have swiftmended it before it ticked off since that was after the tank took the 10k cleave.
My guild has recently been encountering some problems tanking Gruul and Magtheridon, and since I have a good example of the issue in a WWS parse, I figured I'd drop this question here.
.....
We've been encountering MT death on these fights for what seems to be inexplicable reasons, but maybe I am missing something in the parse that someone else can catch.
I can't really help w/ the time stamping stuff, but have you tried amp magic on both the MT and hurtful tanks? Seemed to help our healers a bit.
Anything else we can do, beyond ironshield potions, shield block, changing up our healing strategy to allow for more big heals?
This should be plenty. You can also try a Tree Druid in the MT group, and a Shaman for defensive totems (although this is generally considered overkill because Stoneskin isn't that powerful, although Grace of Air definitely is).
Edit: You did give him a Tree Druid. Include the Shaman to go to the extreme.
I was wondering if people wouldn't mind taking a look at our guilds first Gruul kill. There are a couple things that have been bothering me on attempts, and on the kill.
First, I've noticed our tank/OT going down on a fairly consistent basis when we make it up into 12+ grows. I'm assuming this usually corresponds to a silence after a shatter, or bad spacing once the shatter occurs/MT being out of range. On our kill log, I believe Garm (our MT) went down at roughly 15% and we managed to just beast him down. I'm not sure if shield wall was up or not, but I'm going to assume not, since he's pretty good at reacting to situations, and using his abilities the best he can.
EDIT: Combing the log, it seems we had a few healers go down due to not moving out of a cave in, or due to shatter damage. This is likely what killed our tank.
Second, our caster DPS is way, way behind. Our top 2 warlocks (Megz and Noffy) do very well, and Skyland (generally our top mage, we have a new recruit who does pretty damn well, too) got caught in a bad shatter spot (along with Hawkaye) and they died. Our other casters, while not geared, I feel should really be putting out better DPS than they are, especially considering they're both fire. We've been working on getting a consistent shadow priest in the raid, but if mana is an issue then they're either holding back to retain mana, or not using everything available to them to restore mana. I know they're all generally low on hit, and Rag/Qwer are a bit undergeared, but if they could up their DPS we wouldn't be having such a struggle to down him at 12-13 growths.
Never had a problem with just a single tank on him. Just watch OMEN if you're melee and don't engage when he emerges until your tank has him. We just setup WWS, here's our kill on him yesterday:
Another question. Looking at people's lurker kills I've noticed several at 4.5m total dmg and some at 4.9m as ours was last night. Any particular reasoning behind this? Are we possibly getting duplicate entries due to time stamping, or are we just blowing up adds that well?
I know that we managed to kill him in only two dives this week, compared to the three dive kills in prior weeks. The absence of the add kills from a dive phase would explain the lack of total damage done for the kill.
Higher DPS = less dive phases = less total damage to be dealt.
Re: Qwerpoiu - his average fireball damage is dismal. Make that abyssmal. On inspecting him, I see that it looks like you guys are requiring Mages to wear big stam gear? While that's all well and good, Gruul just doesn't require this anymore. Furthermore, it's gimped his +dmg to unacceptable levels....+220 bonus damage? That's really REALLY too low. A Mage that is simply questing in Outlands to 70 would be hard-pressed to not end up with over +500 damage with decent stamina.
His spec also provides a few clues: I don't know if he's having mana issues or not, but whether or not he is, he should spec out of Magic Absorption and put 3 points into Arcane Meditation for longevity. Furthermore, why does he have 2/3 Imp Fire Blast if he only cast it once in the fight? Incidentally, seeing as how its range is so short, he really shouldn't be doing this at all. Put those points in Incinerate or [IMO] Master of Elements.
Enchants is another issue, he only has 3 enchants...and 2 of them are +3 weapon damage and +5 agility. The other is 50 health on chest. It's almost like he doesn't even care about his own performance.
But the overwhelming reason his damage is so bad is the stamina gear. It's overkill. Like...serious overkill.
Re: Ragnoras
There's a lot of little things that probably add up to poor performance. First, his gem choices are bad (he only has 2 gems, but he patently does not need spell penetration in PvE ever, and his gem on his headpiece isn't even of Blue quality).
Second, his spec is Deep Frost in Armory, but he was throwing Fireballs (and actually 5 Pyroblasts?) in the WWS Parse. I assume he respecced, but I'm just asking for confirmation.
I assume he's also suffering from Stamina syndrome a la Qwerpoiu, but he switched out that gear before he logged evidently, because he's not wearing a shred of it.
He also could upgrade several pieces of his gear with simple questing - he needs to get Spaulders of the Torn-Heart and the Evoker's Helm of Second Sight from SMV questing. He'll gain at least 30 damage and some crit, and none of his stats will suffer from these changes. He also is missing enchants on Head, Shoulders, Legs (these are all +dmg), as well as Chest, Bracers, Cloak, Gloves, and Boots. Incidentally, Nesingwary Safari Stick is a better wand for out damage than Wand of the Netherwing, at the cost of some stamina (which I'm sure he can afford on the Gruul fight).
As for spell rotation, he needs to stop casting Pyroblast. It shouldn't even be on his bar most likely, especially with PoM (which he didn't use once in the fight as well as AP so I'm pretty sure he was Deep Fire in the WWS Parse). The only time it's really acceptable for DPS purposes to cast Pyroblast is as your very first spell as the tank is building threat, otherwise it's just too long of a cast time.
I was wondering if people wouldn't mind taking a look at our guilds first Gruul kill. There are a couple things that have been bothering me on attempts, and on the kill.
Second, our caster DPS is way, way behind. Our top 2 warlocks (Megz and Noffy) do very well, and Skyland (generally our top mage, we have a new recruit who does pretty damn well, too) got caught in a bad shatter spot (along with Hawkaye) and they died. Our other casters, while not geared, I feel should really be putting out better DPS than they are, especially considering they're both fire.
No offense, but "a bit undergeared" is the understatement of the millenium. Qwerpoiu has a grand total of 220 +damage and less than 20% chance to crit. You could do much better than that in level 60 blues. There is just no excuse to have gear that terrible in this day and age. Have him go complete a few level 62 quests, the rewards will be better than half his items. "of the Eagle" is absolutely not what he should be wearing. Doubly so because he is a tailor, with access to the best caster gear pre-T5. He also suffers from "weird hybrid build" syndrome, where he is halfway into two trees, missing the best talents from both.
Did Ragnoras respec for PvP since you posted this parse? Because if he is frost spec but casting fireballs, that is just as bad as Qwer's gear. Fire is the best when you spec for it; speccing frost but casting fireballs is braindead.
Sorry if this seems harsh, but those two really, really need some serious retraining.
Edit: In hindsight, snape is probably right about why he is wearing that junk. But with a decent strategy, there's no reason to be running around with 11k hp for Gruul. Have them put their damage gear back on.
07/05/07, 10:27 AM
Similar Threads
