The WWS Thread - Page 49

• Relwin · 07/06/07, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Mieheg

stuff

Agreeing the the above, your hunters fucking blow. I get that amount of sustained DPS with auto shot and my pet attacking. Really no excuse for sub 650 DPS on VR barring extremely terrible luck with orbs (unfathomable luck at that).

Dominus · 07/06/07, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Thelyna

Garm - first thing that jumps out at me is wtf are your mages doing? You have one decent frost mage, one utterly horribly-geared fire mage who also died early (Qwerp), and two fire mages with okay-ish gear that died rather quickly. Also, was Quabraj assigned to dps early and heal later, or was he just freelancing? Generally if you have 8+ healers, tell one or two of them to DPS full time - you can do the start phase with 4-5 healers, but when it comes to crunch time you really want your healers to have mana in the tank (so in other words if they're not fulltime dps, they should be economy healing until grow 5 or so, ramp it up a little, and post grow 12 or so full-on spamming).

Also .. six crushes for an average of 8k each? Shield Block is your way to live (granted, there are times when being crushed is bad (i.e. during reverb) - and times when it's not so bad (i.e. with nothing else going on and at a low growth number) - I haven't actually looked at many other gruul logs to compare, but taking 8k crushings is a fast way to either die or give your healers heart attacks.

PS: Tell Callabous to put a poison on his offhand. Also tell your rogues if they want melee group spots they have to not suck with them. =/ Is Fallengor undergeared or underskilled? He appears to be combat swords, but he fell way behind Dominus. Looking at your rogues white miss rating tells quite a big story - Dominus (top, 4.8% white miss) then Callabous (15% white miss), then Gnarnok (26% .. !!!), then Fallengor (21% white miss)

Fallengor is combat daggers. He is a previous mut/sub rogue that I've been trying to hammer into someone who'll keep up with me. That will be fixed next run, rest assured, but the fact that he's not understanding the basic tenets of a combat daggers build is slightly disheartening. He's also slightly undergeared (I just helped him get his hit rating to ~215), but he's got some decent pieces from Kara (including Malch/S1 OH as weaps).

Kaacee · 07/06/07, 12:39 PM

How in the world did a Prot warrior average 800+ dps on Aran? Did he respec that week?

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...cc&s=7528-7670

◊ Praetorian · 07/06/07, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Kaacee

How in the world did a Prot warrior average 800+ dps on Aran? Did he respec that week?

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...cc&s=7528-7670

Devastate DPS on a zero-armor mob. Check out this DM from our last Teron kill:

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...&s=12472-12761

Tehax is full prot for this. (Of course when you compare his DPS on the same mob to that of the top rogue....)

Farstrider · 07/06/07, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Kaacee

How in the world did a Prot warrior average 800+ dps on Aran? Did he respec that week?

Originally Posted by Praetorian

Tehax.

Hax. Oh haha etc.

To add some content, yes Aran gives some pretty amazing results at times, he is just so melee friendly, both by virtue of the melee being able to keep on dps-ing during flame wreath & blizzard, plus the exceptionally low (zero?) armour that he has. I've seen even moderately geared feral druids put out over 700dps on him. I had to be reminded of this before I very nearly chewed out a couple of new recruit caster dps-ers for being shown up by a bad feral.

Myonax · 07/06/07, 1:25 PM

Originally Posted by probiscus

617 DPS when allowed to Doom isn't "very good". Because I'm lazy, call her average doom 9k (lowball) that means you can knock 150 DPS off whatever WWS is showing her (which is typically inflated anyway. Add that to the fact that she is deep affliction...

After looking at her armory, it appears she logged off in pvp gear (at least I'd hope she doesn't PvE with her pvp trinket)

. Given the frozen shadoweave, 2pc void heart and girdle of ruination stuff, you should really be expecting at least 750+ non-Doom, no drain life, no heals needed DPS out of a warlock in that kind of gear on that fight.

Judging by dot uptime and "normalized" (for doom), Noffy appears to be the better warlock. Add to that the fact that he's wearing Oblivion whereas Megz has crafted tailoring epics galore, it solidifies my assertion that he performed better than Megz on your kill.

Megz other issue was the shadowburns. Other then using 15 shards a fight, it is not very good DPS and really bad DPM. A shadow bolt for the extra 1 second casting time there would have been better DPS and saved alot of GCDs. The shadowburns were probably contributing factors into megz low dot uptime compared to Noffy. Megz and Noffy were also not using fel armor? Did you make them cast demon armor or something? This is obvious by the fact that the healthstones used only healed for 2496 which is the base value of a 2 point hs instead of the 3200 with Fel Armor. Why would you want them to give up +100 damage...

Soladoras · 07/06/07, 1:36 PM

Originally Posted by Soladoras

My guild has recently been encountering some problems tanking Gruul and Magtheridon, and since I have a good example of the issue in a WWS parse, I figured I'd drop this question here.

The parse:
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...=1&fih=2&fih=4

The Tank's gear:
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/ch...furion&n=Malex

We've been encountering MT death on these fights for what seems to be inexplicable reasons, but maybe I am missing something in the parse that someone else can catch. If you take a look, you will see that our tank (Malex) gets hit with a 10k cleave at 04:53'55.843, followed by a 7k crushing at 04:53'57.484, followed by an 8k crushing at 04:53'58.640. So basically, he got hit for 25k in 3 seconds.

Several questions come to mind. One, are my healers supposed to heal through 25k in 3 sec? Two, why is he getting crushed? Malex gains Shield Block at 04:53'48.265, 4 and 5 seconds respectively before the two crushing blows. Furthermore, it is my understanding that if a gain such as shield block (or Slice and Dice in my case as a rogue) is refreshed before it wears off, it doesn't register as a gain in the combat log and consequently, the WWS parse—therefore Shield Block is still up at this point. Third, Can I stop this from happening? This problem has even cropped up in Gruul the past two weeks, like on growth 7, which is really pathetic, because we can usually hold it together and get the kill anyways with our Hurtful Stike tank taking over, and another warrior/druid taking over the hurtful strikes, although it is messy. This problem has really only started happening within the past two weeks.

Am I missing something in the logs? Help!

Just quoting my OP and I wanted to comment again since we 1-shot magtheridon last night, and I have the parse.

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...w&m&s=976-1668

On this parse, I don't see one crushing blow landing on Malex, and I did assign a paladin to have a big heal mid-cast at all times in-case Malex did take a monster cleave, so something worked, lol. I did speak with our tank about making sure he wasn't slacking on shield block, and he told me he has it macroed to his revenge so its always up. This of course still doesn't explain those two crushing blows I linked in my OP. I'm assuming that shield block was down, despite his insistence it was up. Either way, it was a much better attempt all around.

Malan · 07/06/07, 1:46 PM

Originally Posted by Soladoras

we 1-shot magtheridon last night, and I have the parse.

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...w&m&s=976-1668

Take a look at your enhance shaman's outgoing damage-
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...s=976-1668&a=3

Frostbrand? That's a big "what the fuck". Frostbrand is not an acceptable offhand weapon imbue for anyone who actually wants to do decent damage. Windfury Weapon is the only imbue that an enhance shaman should be using unless there's some strange wacky boss that is immune to melee - and Mag is not that.

He's still using a 1.50 speed off hand, which I'm pretty certain I directed your attention to previously. Not kidding here at all, if he's waiting for a drop or an arena weapon, he needs to bank that 1.50 right now and go get himself a Green 2.60 one-hand to use instead. He'll look silly and feel stupid, but the important thing is that by using that slower off hand he'll get more WF procs on his MH and his DPS will increase despite using an inferior weapon.

You need to direct him to this thread Enhance Shaman: The Collected Works of Theorycraft, Vol I and have him read the first page at least for the summary.

He's "gaining" Flurry a lot instead of just refreshing it, which would indicate his crit rate isn't very high - have him use an Agility pot to boost his crit rate up.

He also did pretty bad at keeping Searing totem down near Mag.

Soladoras · 07/06/07, 1:53 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

Take a look at your enhance shaman's outgoing damage-
Wow Web Stats

Frostbrand? That's a big "what the fuck". Frostbrand is not an acceptable offhand weapon imbue for anyone who actually wants to do decent damage. Windfury Weapon is the only imbue that an enhance shaman should be using unless there's some strange wacky boss that is immune to melee - and Mag is not that.

You need to direct him to this thread Enhance Shaman: The Collected Works of Theorycraft, Vol I and have him read the first page at least for the summary.

He's "gaining" Flurry a lot instead of just refreshing it, which would indicate his crit rate isn't very high. If he's got more than around 100-120 Hit Rating he needs to start shedding it and pick up more crit.

He also did pretty bad at keeping Searing totem down near Mag.

Thank you for the feedback, Malan. We do have a lot of bad DPSers—I did 1079 dps while clicking cubes and somehow made #2 on total dmg. Here is our enchancement shaman's armory:

The Armory

/vomit at his OH

EDIT: do I need to add "Searing Totem" to my actors as his pet for the dmg to show up?

Edit2: grammar.

Malan · 07/06/07, 1:55 PM

Yes just checked it out and already edited my post above to reflect the weapon issue.

Calgar · 07/06/07, 1:57 PM

Yeah, he wasted his arena points on that off-hand. He needs the one-handed, 2600+ point arena weapon in his off-hand instead.

From what i understand, he'd see a dps improvement from getting a 68dps green off-hand with 2.7+ speed.

• Relwin · 07/06/07, 2:02 PM

I still don't get why Enhance shaman have this grat urge to dump points into Ele instead of Resto. The hit, while not optimal, should be a larger increase in overall DPS than a meager 15 points in shock talents. Not to mention he can pick up Imp Reinc so that when he dies, because at some point every enhancement shaman will, he can get back up in the fight with enough to suck up generally a single environmental damage effect without keeling over again. Plus, totem range sucks without mastery and the mechanic is still dumb.

Malan · 07/06/07, 2:02 PM

Originally Posted by Soladoras

EDIT: do I need to add "Searing Totem" to my actors as his pet for the dmg to show up?

If you only take one shaman you could attribute it to them, but if you have more than one dropping searing totem there is no way in the log to distinguish whose totem is doing what damage, much like a water elemental for a mage.

You can just check his Abilities area though to see how often he's dropping it - 3 times compared to 7 or so drops of Windfury, and Windfury is a 120 second totem while Searing Totem is only 60 seconds, so it should be dropped more often than the other totems.

You should however make sure that your Resto shaman are dropping Searing Totem as well, its incredibly mana efficient for the DPS it does, and resto shaman get bonus spell dmg, so it will hit a little harder.

Fellwraith · 07/06/07, 2:31 PM

Originally Posted by Kaacee

How in the world did a Prot warrior average 800+ dps on Aran? Did he respec that week?

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...cc&s=7528-7670

Prot can do plenty of dps in the right situations. This is from a semi-PUG where he was running all over the room chasing the shadowpriest. I lost a good 20 seconds of dps time on him during a flamewreath as he ran away (that's where the decapitator throw came in). I also died at 5% so I missed several executes at the end. This was a kill, but I screwed up my log and missed the last bit.

My dps gear at the time consisted of 2 Kara items, the belt off mag, 2 heroic epics, and a number of blues. If I had an enhancement shaman in the group I would have been considerably higher.

Mieheg · 07/06/07, 2:53 PM

thx to Fugazor, trey and Relwin. Really appreciate your response. So i will talk to our hunters, some of them wanted to try out BM anyway.

• Relwin · 07/06/07, 3:01 PM

Originally Posted by Mieheg

thx to Fugazor, trey and Relwin. Really appreciate your response. So i will talk to our hunters, some of them wanted to try out BM anyway.

To be a little more constructive than my last post here's the WWS from our latest VR kill for reference of what they could be doing.

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...io&s=4605-4934

We had a shadow priest missing that night so my rotation was a gimped one and when I died I was bone dry on mana anyway.

Gurg linked that Teron kill as well with the hunters not having the spriest again which lead to another slightly subpar performance on my part. But given one of our normal ranged group compositions as of late I have no issue pushing well over 1000 DPS and our other hunters are usually in the same boat.

If they're going BM just start them off with a basic Auto>Steady>Auto rotation so they can get comfortable with the mana usage and not clipping their shots. With mostly karazhan gear and some SSC stuff this should cap them out at around 850-900 DPS if done decently.

Rinced · 07/06/07, 9:25 PM

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...=3621-4052&a=2

That warlock got 182 CoA ticks in 6 min althout (182*3)/60 = 9.1 so CoA seems to be ticking every 2 seconds ?
Same thing for other warlocks.

Myul · 07/06/07, 10:19 PM

http://www.thottbot.com/s27218 -> Apply Aura: Periodic Damage (Value: 113 every 2 seconds)

182*2= 364
364/60= 6.067 -> excellent dot uptime

But i can't find wether a curse of elements nor a curse of shadows, bringing 6 warlocks and a shadow priest to a raid that - really hurts my heart ( http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...3621-4052&a=48 ).

Clandestine · 07/06/07, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

Devastate DPS on a zero-armor mob. Check out this DM from our last Teron kill:

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...&s=12472-12761

Tehax is full prot for this. (Of course when you compare his DPS on the same mob to that of the top rogue....)

I wondered why he was with an enhancement shaman, and then I saw you only brought two Rogues. Which leads me to my new question: why would you bring only two rogues to Gorefiend? Our rogues dominate on Gorefiend.

RikkiP · 07/06/07, 11:39 PM

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...5osy3&s=48-456

Here's my first WWS, wanted to see what kind of DPS I could do on Morogrim. Expected it to be a bit lower due to his armour but not too bad in the end - just over 1.8k DPS.

Was a bit of a spur of the moment SSC run though so had a few people with odd specs and even a couple of non guildies.

• Shabadu · 07/07/07, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by Clandestine

I wondered why he was with an enhancement shaman, and then I saw you only brought two Rogues. Which leads me to my new question: why would you bring only two rogues to Gorefiend? Our rogues dominate on Gorefiend.

Simple. We only had 2 rogues around and/or wanted to be in for the fight. We don't stack specific classes unless there's an absolutely necessary reason.

◊ Praetorian · 07/07/07, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by Shabadu

Simple. We only had 2 rogues around and/or wanted to be in for the fight. We don't stack specific classes unless there's an absolutely necessary reason.

That's not really true, I definitely shuffle people around based on the fights. Tehax is an orc on a netherdrake-winning 5v5 team, and very much wanted a Soul Cleaver. He was in, in place of a third rogue, in case the axe dropped. Simple as that.

And damn, that's some insane Morogrim DPS -- you logged out in PvP gear, alas, because I was curious to check out your setup. Obviously the drums and two Bloodlusts helped a lot.

Northerner · 07/07/07, 12:12 AM

All I took home from the Teron WWS was that Garrote > Ambush.

It is quite interesting though to see a fight merely from the statistical data and it's actually becoming a little addictive.

• QControl · 07/07/07, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by Shabadu

Simple. We only had 2 rogues around and/or wanted to be in for the fight. We don't stack specific classes unless there's an absolutely necessary reason.

Haha, you're a funny man, Shabadu.

• Shabadu · 07/07/07, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by QControl

Haha, you're a funny man, Shabadu.

I am a colossal asshole.