I am by no means any sort of expert on tanking and how it works, but our MT plays with very high ping, so he may not be getting shield block up as fast as others normally would to prevent a crushing hit going through. Or maybe it is just bad luck, I dont know.

I'd really like some hardcore critiquing if possible, do your worst please. (Not necessarily just me, but overall, please).

Teron:
http://www.keepersofthefaith.org/wws...y_7/index.html

I know personally I could rotate in more fireblasts for sure. I ended died at 1% because I chose to finish a fireball and then healthstone rather than cancel and healthstone. Died at 50% mana, which means I could roate in more fireblasts or arcane blasts. And before you ask, yes, zero shadow priest and 1 shaman (enh only).

Hello


If someone had the time to help a casual raid group that has a problem with Prince Malchezar, I'd be more than happy to hear advice. As we wiped eleven times this sunday we had 1%, 3% and 4% wipes. Bad luck and all, but I am sure that with some advice we could've turned things into kill.

Here's the best attempt we had: http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...&m&s=8249-8723

We had a bit too much melee on all our attempts, I think, but is there something else you could tell us? I'd really appreciate some help, even though most of you are occupied with different instances and this Prince fight has been covered many times.

Your rogue and DPS warrior did not get windfury, tell your shaman even if only 1 warrior is in his grp to always drop wf over grave of air.
The rogue is not using slice and dice in the whole fight which is massive dps boost. if he is doing alot pve he should spec combat not hemo. also hes missing alot hit items with 22% missed hits.
Your Hunter is not using a shot rotation .. tell him to read the various hunter related threads in this forum.

Thank you for quick advice. I have to wonder about the WF totem, since it shows I put it down and the tank is getting extra attacks from the totem. All melee was in the same group, so it shouldn't be the case. Yet I don't see any extra attacks for them. The log might be a bit uncomplete, as I was the only person who logged it.

Sounds like they may have put sharpening stones on, tell them not to, windfury is much better.

Yes, rogues should put poison only on the off hand (not affected by windfury). I'm not a rogue expert though, I've heard mutilate builds squawk about that, perhaps someone else can speak to that.

Tonight we killed Gruul after being stuck on him for about 6 weeks. The input I have received from this thread helped us greatly in overcoming this obstacle. Thanks to everyone who contributed. Here's our kill:

WWS Link.

I know we still have a long way to go in learning to play, but it feels great to finally kill him. Here's the thing that stands out the most to me:

Two of our DPS warriors, Kristovi and Felixi, had windfury but were unable to crack 600 DPS. What are they doing wrong?

Even with 5/5 Vile and 5/5 Imp poisons, Windfury is still more DPS than Instant.

15 procs of Windfury in a 4-6 minute fight is nothing, they should have triple that. Looks to me like the shaman was not keeping the totem down close enough during the majority of the fight.

Flexil needs a lot more +hit for DPS, even as a 2h war (which isn't very good anyway), and seemed to have been rage dumping with Cleave. I may be wrong on this, but even unimproved Slam is better than eating a white swing for almost no bonus damage.

Kristovi needs more hit as well (which is hard to find pre-T5 on plate I'm told), and it looks like he was using Heroic Strike as his secondary special. This is not ideal! I'm not a fury warrior, but I'm fairly certain one should avoid dropping a white swing whenever possible. Whirlwind is ideal for this, and he never used it.

I concur with Malan that everyone in your Windfury group has a way low proc rate on it. Generally on a sword-specced rogue you want to see roughly two Windfury procs for every Sword Spec proc. Remind your resto shaman to stay in range, tough as it is, 'cause beating the Growths is important.

It seems they don't use execute optimally. Kristovi seems to favor HS above everything else. As of now there's nothing that can remotely compare to execute DPS. Preferably, switch to DW with two fast weapons (especially from 2H). This should give a huge boost as well. They should also use Death Wish twice in a 6 minute fight. Combine DW, Recklessness and Execute at 20% if threat is not a problem.

Also, tell Kristovi to use 8str gems instead of 16ap.

Pardon the really stupid question (not a warrior here, looking for some tips for our DPS warriors), but does "fast weapons" include daggers? One of ours swears by them, and it just seems so counterintuitive to have a warrior in plate plinking at the boss with two toothpicks. Surely because of the weapon factor in normalised damage, he should be looking at fast swords?

Edit: As I understand, the rationale for fast weapons is to allow more HS spam, since it's a flat increase per hit. Doesn't that also mean more threat per point of damage dealt though? Since warriors have no threat reduction tools, surely that would lead to a reduction in sustained damage (due to threat capping) even if it allows for more burst damage?

I should have clarified that i meant switching from 2H (or slow weapons) to DW with fast weapons for execute spamming. And aside from other issues, daggers aren't that bad as it's only WW that's normalized. Using faster weapons gives "smoother" rage generation, the main reason why they are preferable when executing.

Never use a dagger in your MH (only exception being in execute range). Offhand is ok but using a dagger in your mainhand will lower your whirlwind/cleave damage by loads. The mainhand should be as slow as possible for the 100-20% stretch and as fast as possible (while still having good dps) for 19-0%.

Well I took a look at some other WWS parses, and here is one from EJ on the 7th - http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...rk&s=2703-3090
If you sort by DPS, you guys are outputting almost the same DPS - you just had a few deaths it looks like. Does not seem all that unreasonable, especially given that they're farming parts of BT and Hyjal. Leo is just one of those fights where Blizzard really tuned it to the limit - there's only so hard you can push the DPS on it. I believe I've seen Gurg state that its perfectly acceptable to kill Leo right on the dot of the enrage timer.

Besides cleave/ww, a slow MH will be more damage from WF procs. I find offhand speed doesn't really matter, but there are 2 exceptions.

1) Having a MH and OH with the same speed gets you one extra swing from flurry and
2) Having a fast OH gives you better rage generation for executes, since executing every global with the minimum rage is the most DPS.

Also, I've had quite a few fights where my heroic strike was my #2 ability, with bloodthirst slightly behind. However, that was simply because of massive extra rage. In this case, your fury warrior clearly had low DPS and probably should have had much much fewer heroic strikes. The best thing you can do as fury when starting out is simply mash your bloodthirst button and learn to get a feel for always having rage for it when the cooldown is up. Then work in WW when you know using it won't interfere with your BT usage, and then add in heroic strike (or cleave for multi mob) when you have even more extra rage.

Kristovi has the right idea with gear. You can get away with mediocre hit as fury...don't let anyone tell you more than 8.6% hit is needed. Hit is always good, but never at the expense of AP or crit. With those stats/weapons he should *easily* be able to reach 900 dps with proper totems and might/kings.

He should shoot for some more crit, and as someone else mentioned, always favor STR over AP due to kings. Looking at some other gem things...I'll never understand why people skip over DPS socket bonuses. For example, gladiator's shoulders have 3str bonus. With the red/yellow sockets, An 8str + 4str 4crit gem would give 15str + 4crit total when you add the 3str bonus. This would be a total of 30ap, 33 with imp zerk stance, and 36 with kings (i think that's how it adds, anyway). Currently 2x 16ap = 32ap = 35 in zerk with no extra bonus from kings.

Someone correct my math if I'm wrong about how things stack, but even if it's slightly different, the concept is the same, and you're basically missing out on 4 crit rating for no reason.

Finally, sword spec smithing is pretty lame. Any of the gladiator's offhands would be better than the sword for a warrior because of the increased AP. Personally, I used to be axe spec, but switched to mace for PvP and found the 1h mace is amazingly good in PvE.

Congratulations on the kill! Since it sounds like you're open to some more constructive criticism, here goes. From the mage perspective, Shyyanne spammed Scorch the entire fight. Since she had a shadow priest, mana shouldn't really be an issue, and full-bore Fireball spam is considerably higher DPS. If all of your mages do a cycle something like 7 fireballs : 1 scorch, their DPS will stay high and the Imp Scorch debuff will stay up. She also cast a lot of Fire Blasts. FB has pretty poor DPM, the only time it's worth casting is if you're moving out of a Cave In or running to your safe spot since it's an instant cast.

Finally, Shyyanne still has a problem with not casting as many spells as her fellow mages. That's especially conspicuous since she was spamming Scorch (1.5 second cast) vs Fireball (3 second cast).

Outside of that, they performed very impressively.

This is something the mages worked out on their own to keep up the debuff (I'm not exactly sure why). Is it significantly better for raid DPS to divide the scorching responsibility?

Even if she was the only person keeping up Improved Scorch there should at least be some fireball usage in there, the Improved Scorch debuff lasts for 30 seconds after each time it's refreshed, which is ample time to get a number of Fireballs in even if you were playing it safe.

You should also get the Scorch timer mod - if you have a single Mage on the duty, it should work perfectly for you (just like a DoT timer - except Scorch isn't a DoT). It will count down from 30 seconds, and you should hit Scorch again with plenty of time in case you get unlucky with a resist or two.

Leo is tough for a caster to excel at, but just make sure they trust their threat meters and boss mods. You'll always be able to start casting before the raid leader calls in vent to start dps, and you'll know whether you can let your cast finish or not when he calls stop.

Bah, I was going to link one of our Leo parses but the WWS server ate it... time to buy an account.

Wouldn't there just be more WFs with a slower weapon, making WF weapon speed independent?

It does make it easier, but the reason you give away this responsibility to one person so only one person has to scorch rather than everyone tossing scorches once and awhile. The reason you make it so only one person is scorching is because scorch is bad DPS, and you want to use as few of them as possible raid wide and still keep up the debuff. Get him to use fireballs to scorches in a 5 or 8 to 1 ratio and he'll keep it up just fine without gimping himself too much.