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Old 07/10/07, 3:37 PM   #1326
Mulva
Von Kaiser
 
Human Warrior
 
Arthas
Originally Posted by skrewler
Our guild started trying the prot pally / lock life tapping strategy on Tidewalker last night and had some great success, but our main problem was the tank dying. Was wondering if I could get some input from some WWS parses:

1st (and best attempt)
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...zw&s=6157-6780
2nd
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...zw&s=7807-8373
3rd
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...zw&s=8999-9209
4th
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...zw&s=9741-9941
5th (Bear tank, healers said he was easier to heal..)
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...&s=10572-10997

It's my idea to stick with a bear tank on this fight, as the burst DPS tidewalker puts out is just insane. Any other thoughts on where we can improve?
I'll touch on your resto druid a bit, since it's what I'm most knowledgeable about.

TLDR Version:
Stack lifebloom to 3, dont let it drop
Keep Rejuv up more

It looks like Crib isn't using lifebloom effectively. His average tick is around 200 (about 1/4 what it should be for a resto druid). The tank had 66 heals from lifebloom, meaning it fell off the tank 66 times. This is just not an effective use of lifebloom at all. Since the patch that changed the stacking of +healing with lifebloom it is FAR more efficient to stack it to 3 and keep it stacked. The only time he might think of letting it drop is as an earthquake is about to hit if he's concerned of pulling aggro (although the paly tank should generate significantly more threat). Also the number of ticks he's getting is a bit on the low side considering he only got graved 1 time, his rejuv ticks are also a bit low if he's intending to keep rejuv up the entire time. Some of the low tick counts for rejuv may be due to clipping the end of the HOT (not letting it run the full duration) or swiftmending as it's about to tick and then refreshing. The former is a problem, the latter is fine as long as the swiftmend was needed at that very second. Renewing a HOT before it expires is a reduction in HPS and a waste of mana.

As far as gear/spec:
He's PVP resto spec, which is decent for healing in that you dont miss out on much that really will increase performance, but can limit you a bit in your options for healing. For instance his spec basically rules out any viability for Healing Touch on a fight where you might be more inclined to use it.
Gear:
I'm guessing he's still working on getting geared, but a few things stand out:
Enchant on his weapon: definitely, 100%, without a doubt, get +81 healing on it, with the mechanics of lifebloom +healing is by far the biggest and best stat for a tree.
Idol selection: he should look into getting the lifebloom idol from shadow labs
Really beyond that it's just finding upgrades for Chest, Bracers, Belt, and Essence of the Martyr to replace Ohu'gun Relic.

I could go into more depth on lifebloom, but it's covered on these boards (and the WOW boards as shocking as it may be) well already:
Druid - Tree Concerns and Issues
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...10537225&sid=1

Edit: one other note: it seems like your melee dps was not getting windfury, it looks instead like the shaman was dropping GoA and flametongue. While the hunter must have been loving it, I'm sure the rogues and arms warriors would have seen a BIG increase from windfury.

Last edited by Mulva : 07/10/07 at 3:48 PM.

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Old 07/10/07, 5:20 PM   #1327
Wut
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Priest
 
Ysondre
Who's ready for another Gruul parse?!?
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...qa&s=6610-7022 (this is the kill, attempts are available too)

This is our second kill, note that a lot of people are spec'd(can someone please tell me how to spell this I can't stand it) primarily for PVP.

I can glean some information from DoT classes, and it's pretty interesting how much the number of dot ticks corresponds with position on the damage charts. That said, I don't know how to look much farther into caster DPS, and I'm pretty clueless about how melee/hunters work.
Healing seemed fine to me, I dunno; we took a lot of raid damage due to suck.

Feel free to pick at any area/class you're comfortable with.

Interesting to note is my 4% crit rate with mind blast (1/24) with shadow power. Can that be right?

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Old 07/10/07, 5:34 PM   #1328
snape
Great Tiger
 
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Human Mage
 
Destromath
Originally Posted by skrewler View Post
Our guild started trying the prot pally / lock life tapping strategy on Tidewalker last night and had some great success, but our main problem was the tank dying. Was wondering if I could get some input from some WWS parses:

1st (and best attempt)
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...zw&s=6157-6780
2nd
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...zw&s=7807-8373
3rd
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...zw&s=8999-9209
4th
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...zw&s=9741-9941
5th (Bear tank, healers said he was easier to heal..)
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...&s=10572-10997

It's my idea to stick with a bear tank on this fight, as the burst DPS tidewalker puts out is just insane. Any other thoughts on where we can improve?
Your Mages make no sense. You have 2 Mages with Slow in this raid? That's about 2 too many. Also, Asheara needs to make better talent choices - there is no point in him/her having Flame Throwing, considering how fond s/he is of Arcane Blast - he won't ever be in range of Arcane Blast and out of range of Fireball without those points...they are better spent elsewhere. I also can't fathom why he has Arcane Power, and didn't ONCE use it in the fight. He's also using Arcane Blast very inefficiently - he must think that only the first cast is efficient, but the truth is that the first TWO are. If he really wants to use Arcane Missiles, he should be going Blast -> Blast -> Missiles -> repeat (assuming the Blast debuff is gone).

As for Garlas, he's specced well. His gear is good - although I would replace the +10 crit gem on his chest with a +8 hit - and similarly change his combo +5 dmg, +4 crit gems to +5 dmg, +4 HIT gems (he's lacking hit - which is affecting his Fireball miss rate subtantially...missing 8.8% of Fireballs is unacceptable). Other than that, rotation seems good, I like that he did a lot of damage with Flamestrike - that is very good for this fight. He seems to have a good understanding of his role on the fight, he just needs to tighten up his gear a little bit.

Same thing for Chanteux - every crit gem you see there with a combination of +dmg should be replaced with +dmg, +hit until he's at the hit cap for the school of magic he's using (which in his case is Fire). His main nuke is Fireball but his damage with it is just horrible. 1919 is in no way acceptable. His talents are kinda screwy too - he managed to make some key mistakes - move the 2 points in Imp Fire Blast to Master of Elements - and unless he's really attached to slow, move that point to MoE as well (you already have another Slow Mage in the raid, which is still 1 too many). Get rid of Wand Spec (come on), get rid of Magic Absorption, get Arcane Impact, 1 point (or better yet, 2) in Magic Attunement and he can Amplify the tank up right. Put the rest of the points in Arcane Potency.

I'd rather see all your Mages with the cookie-cutter build - the ones that are Arcane right now just can't support the spec with their gear, and neither of them is even using the spec appropriately. Sorry for the long post.

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Old 07/10/07, 5:50 PM   #1329
Erongg
Great Tiger
 
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Lorentz
Troll Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Wut
Interesting to note is my 4% crit rate with mind blast (1/24) with shadow power. Can that be right?
Assuming a 25% chance to crit, there's a .8% chance to get 1/24 crits. So sure, you got unlucky.


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Old 07/10/07, 5:55 PM   #1330
Malan
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Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Wut View Post
Who's ready for another Gruul parse?!?
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...qa&s=6610-7022 (this is the kill, attempts are available too)
Your top rogue was getting Windfury the whole fight but doesn't show a gain from Bloodlust, and neither does your one shaman. You may need to remind him to use it during the fight.

Edit - ok I figured I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and maybe he used it on a previous attempt and you guys just rezzed really fast. But no, he didn't use Bloodlust in the entire time you guys were working Maulgar through Gruul
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=yda3bocjxwuqa&a=22
Notice the distinct lack of Bloodlust under his buffs for the full combat log report.

I'd suggest making sure he's trained it.

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Old 07/10/07, 6:21 PM   #1331
skrewler
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Bonechewer
Originally Posted by snape View Post
I'd rather see all your Mages with the cookie-cutter build - the ones that are Arcane right now just can't support the spec with their gear, and neither of them is even using the spec appropriately. Sorry for the long post.
Thanks for your comments. I think a lot of our mages would benefit from the cookie-cutter build. The Arcane spec vs. cookie-cutter is a very contentious topic in our guild:P

Last edited by skrewler : 07/10/07 at 8:07 PM.

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Old 07/10/07, 7:27 PM   #1332
dukes
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Dukes
Tauren Druid
 
No WoW Account (EU)
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=ajffcn35xfuzm

Illidan kill. It was fun, but that fight takes way too long.

Critiques welcome!

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Old 07/10/07, 7:31 PM   #1333
Malan
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Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
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I've seen much higher DPS output from your guild before - not knowing much about the Illidan fight is there a threat component to the fight that forced you guys to slow down?

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Old 07/10/07, 7:36 PM   #1334
Hamilburg
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Argent Dawn
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Your top rogue was getting Windfury the whole fight but doesn't show a gain from Bloodlust, and neither does your one shaman. You may need to remind him to use it during the fight.

Edit - ok I figured I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and maybe he used it on a previous attempt and you guys just rezzed really fast. But no, he didn't use Bloodlust in the entire time you guys were working Maulgar through Gruul
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=yda3bocjxwuqa&a=22
Notice the distinct lack of Bloodlust under his buffs for the full combat log report.

I'd suggest making sure he's trained it.
He did actually use it once (on the Maulgar kill shot). Its called Heroism for Alliance Shamans.

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Old 07/10/07, 7:49 PM   #1335
Malan
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Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
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Hah. That'll teach me to actually check if its Alliance next time.

Still though, only once on that many gruul attempts? Its usually back off Cooldown for every attempt.

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Old 07/10/07, 7:50 PM   #1336
RikkiP
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Rogue
 
Balnazzar (EU)
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
I've seen much higher DPS output from your guild before - not knowing much about the Illidan fight is there a threat component to the fight that forced you guys to slow down?
There is lots of things stopping you from being able to dps! There is a lot of idling time, having to switch targets a lot combined with the fact you are trying to minimise your raid damage taken by making certain movements.

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Old 07/10/07, 8:45 PM   #1337
beaubird
Glass Joe
 
Human Mage
 
Stormrage
Thanks for the advice. I'm also going to throw in some more +hit gear to see if that could help solve my DPS problem. I saw a 10% miss rate on my spells for the Gruul kill and that's just not good...-.-

I can go in with 891 Fire damage, 31% crit, and 12.92% hit if I tweak my gear, which should be able to solve my DPS problems I think...

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Old 07/11/07, 12:26 AM   #1338
Sunchips
Bald Bull
 
Sunchips
Human Priest
 
No WoW Account
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=mflcifwoxld4e


This is from an al'ar farming this week. It was my and our guilds first WWS. Seemed very accurate by myself with simple combat log increase macros.

Big inaccuracy though...frost mages.

What do you do when you have more than one frost mage? It only lists one water elemental and I can't find a way to assign it to the mages.


This was the only inaccuracy otherwise.

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Old 07/11/07, 12:28 AM   #1339
Malan
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Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account
What do you do when you have more than one frost mage?
Hehe my first response when I only half read that was "tell them to respec?"

There is no way possible to assign water elementals or shaman totems to individuals. Your local client will tell you how much damage your pet is doing through the scrolling text report, but none of that is actually recorded in the combat log. Water Elementals and Totems do not have unique names like hunter pets.

Your parse shows that the fight took over 10 minutes, you could consider having your shaman use it much earlier in the fight and then having it up again at the end.

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Old 07/11/07, 12:33 AM   #1340
Sunchips
Bald Bull
 
Sunchips
Human Priest
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Hehe my first response when I only half read that was "tell them to respec?"

There is no way possible to assign water elementals or shaman totems to individuals. Your local client will tell you how much damage your pet is doing through the scrolling text report, but none of that is actually recorded in the combat log. Water Elementals and Totems do not have unique names like hunter pets.

Your parse shows that the fight took over 10 minutes, you could consider having your shaman use it much earlier in the fight and then having it up again at the end.
We usually have 3-4 shaman. Just had a lot of new people in on farm day; and all those poor holy priests that don't get raid time.

But ya, that's the only fight where there'd be more than one frost so its not really an issue otherwise.

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Old 07/11/07, 4:28 AM   #1341
cheebamonkey
Piston Honda
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Bonechewer
Originally Posted by Wut View Post
Who's ready for another Gruul parse?!?
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...qa&s=6610-7022 (this is the kill, attempts are available too)

This is our second kill, note that a lot of people are spec'd(can someone please tell me how to spell this I can't stand it) primarily for PVP.

I can glean some information from DoT classes, and it's pretty interesting how much the number of dot ticks corresponds with position on the damage charts. That said, I don't know how to look much farther into caster DPS, and I'm pretty clueless about how melee/hunters work.
Healing seemed fine to me, I dunno; we took a lot of raid damage due to suck.

Feel free to pick at any area/class you're comfortable with.

Interesting to note is my 4% crit rate with mind blast (1/24) with shadow power. Can that be right?
It's hard to say exactly where you can improve since your report doesn't link armories and whatnot but from a general standpoint you should be able to get by with 6 or 7 healers as your raid gets better at not dying to shatter. Also you casters should be putting out better numbers just in general if they have the crafted sets, which really aren't hard to obtain. The only specific point I can say is to have you hunter Cybersuicide check out one of the hunter dps threads in the mechanics forum. He is dps'ing like TBC never happened and were all still in vanilla wow. If he gets some steady shot rotations in there he'll see his dps jump by a considerable margin.

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Old 07/11/07, 4:38 AM   #1342
Yessia
Don Flamenco
 
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Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
Looking for some comments on the performance of the DPS on my guilds attempts at Hydross last night, I'd guess a lot of people under performing and I'd like some critiquing. We have this fight down we're just not getting enough DPS. Last night we had 3 1% wipes, which were all kills if our DPS is where it should of been.

http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report=xwpee4hfj4yqu

4, 6, and 12 were the 1% wipes.

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Old 07/11/07, 4:44 AM   #1343
Klorak
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Arathor (EU)
Originally Posted by Wut View Post
Who's ready for another Gruul parse?!?
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...qa&s=6610-7022 (this is the kill, attempts are available too)
At first glance the hunters appear not to be using their pet. However the pets are in the logs but are not added to the damage of the hunters. What you need to is go to the "Actors" tab and define who the pet belongs to.

Other than that, as said before, the hunters should read up on theorycrafting and never use aimed shot or serpent sting.

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Old 07/11/07, 8:40 AM   #1344
Malan
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Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
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Originally Posted by Yessia View Post
Looking for some comments on the performance of the DPS on my guilds attempts at Hydross last night, I'd guess a lot of people under performing and I'd like some critiquing. We have this fight down we're just not getting enough DPS. Last night we had 3 1% wipes, which were all kills if our DPS is where it should of been.

Wow Web Stats

4, 6, and 12 were the 1% wipes.
Attempt #12 shows 4 rogues getting Windfury attacks and also a Warrior, but that warrior has significantly fewer windfury hits than the rogues did. It looks to me like you had swapped in the warrior into the group at the end? Perhaps for executes with totems? I see that its an MS Warrior, you should have left him in in the shaman group the entire time, MS warriors gain a tremendous amount of DPS from shaman totems.

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Old 07/11/07, 9:36 AM   #1345
Marieth
Piston Honda
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Agamaggan (EU)
Originally Posted by Yessia View Post
Looking for some comments on the performance of the DPS on my guilds attempts at Hydross last night, I'd guess a lot of people under performing and I'd like some critiquing. We have this fight down we're just not getting enough DPS. Last night we had 3 1% wipes, which were all kills if our DPS is where it should of been.

Wow Web Stats

4, 6, and 12 were the 1% wipes.

What is up with Darmi?

In all the "good" trys he has way too much parries. Tell him to get behind the mob and not hit him the face, he is also killing your tanks.

Also his equipment could use some improvments. Hit gems in shoulders, enchant the chest piece. Enchant weapons, get rid of Emerald ripper and get a faster offhand, 1.8 is not an option for sword combat, either a dirge or much better an S2 gladiator offhand. Agi instead of AP on hands, nethercobra lether patch on the legs. 12 agi on boots.

And his bladefury dmg seems a little low. I don't know what tactik you guys use, but if you AoE (what I assume) the nature adds, then he should use it on every nature phase, as soon as the first seeds go up. That will help killing adds and of course improve his dps. He has used BF 8 times over all that trys, that is just terrible. Cardboardcup could use bladefury more too.

"...gone missing."

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Old 07/11/07, 9:54 AM   #1346
Lazare
Piston Honda
 
Human Priest
 
Lightbringer
I'd really appreciate any comments on this Gruul kill:
Wow Web Stats

Background: We're a fairly casual guild who have been stuck on Gruul for a while. We downed him last week for the first time but it was obviously a fluke - lost the OT fairly early, then had a massive string of dodges which let us somehow pull off a kill with most of the raid dead. It was...ugly.

This week we managed to kill him without relying on evasion rotations, although the OT still died before the end. So, seems like we can definetly kill him, but it's still a bit ugly and I'd like to improve, but I'm not sure where we're weakest. Stuff I've noted:

1) Our class balance is pretty screwy. No resto shamans, for example, and only one shaman in total.
2) Choda, Kathas, Triksie, and Miaku aren't regular raiders, as their gear shows.
3) Lazare (me) just respeced shadow last week, and is still gearing up/learning how to play.

So...what else? Comments about skill usage would be especially appreciated.

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Old 07/11/07, 10:18 AM   #1347
Malan
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Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Lazare View Post
I'd really appreciate any comments on this Gruul kill:
Wow Web Stats

So...what else? Comments about skill usage would be especially appreciated.
As usual, your shaman needs to change his offhand to match the speed of his main hand (2.6). (This is getting repetitive. I need a macro for this) Have him read this thread Enhance Shaman: The Collected Works of Theorycraft, Vol I

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Old 07/11/07, 10:22 AM   #1348
Branar
Don Flamenco
 
Human Warrior
 
Vek'nilash
Originally Posted by Lazare View Post
I'd really appreciate any comments on this Gruul kill:
Wow Web Stats
Your MT took 5 crushes; that's kind of a lot. Neither your MT or your OT are using stoneshield/ironshield potions, and when you're looking at a 7+ minute kill that's not a bad idea.

Here's what's happened to your OT:

Ground Slam + Shatter
Cave-in (2769)
Reverberation
Cave-in (2796)
Hurtful Strike (miss)
Reverberation fades
Cave-in (2796)
Flash of Light (1309)
Hurtful Strike (12793)

You need to assign him healers. Or at least A healer. Looking at the "who heals whom" area, no one in the raid has more than 40% of their healing going to him. That's exactly the sort of situation where not having someone assigned to him will kill him - shatter, followed closely by a late-fight reverb, probably the main tank dips a bit low, everyone scrambles to top him off, and the OT dies in the ensuing confusion.

From the first time he took cave-in damage, it was 10 seconds before he died. Now, some of that time was reverberation, but still...That's a long time to go with only a single flash of light for healing.

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Old 07/11/07, 10:27 AM   #1349
Mearis
Mr. Sandman
 
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Dwarf Priest
 
Defias Brotherhood (EU)
Originally Posted by Branar View Post
Your MT took 5 crushes; that's kind of a lot. Neither your MT or your OT are using stoneshield/ironshield potions, and when you're looking at a 7+ minute kill that's not a bad idea.

Here's what's happened to your OT:

Ground Slam + Shatter
Cave-in (2769)
Reverberation
Cave-in (2796)
Hurtful Strike (miss)
Reverberation fades
Cave-in (2796)
Flash of Light (1309)
Hurtful Strike (12793)

You need to assign him healers. Or at least A healer. Looking at the "who heals whom" area, no one in the raid has more than 40% of their healing going to him. That's exactly the sort of situation where not having someone assigned to him will kill him - shatter, followed closely by a late-fight reverb, probably the main tank dips a bit low, everyone scrambles to top him off, and the OT dies in the ensuing confusion.

From the first time he took cave-in damage, it was 10 seconds before he died. Now, some of that time was reverberation, but still...That's a long time to go with only a single flash of light for healing.
What is he doing standing under cave in for 3 ticks?

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Old 07/11/07, 10:55 AM   #1350
Branar
Don Flamenco
 
Human Warrior
 
Vek'nilash
Another reasonable point.

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