◊ manly

Sure thing. Just keep in mind I never wanted to get into the fire vs arcane debate in the first place, but I like when numbers aren't overly exagerated. Keep in mind that you can't get those numbers without doing stopcasting as fire, and that sometimes the pushback times badly with your stopcasting. Results vary depending on how much you're willing to gamble it for the most part.

Here is a parse of teron, a bit dated because I sadly did not have COE this week (in addition to early sacrifice regardless)
Loading...
Stion - 1353 dps, oil + food (maybe 1xflamecap too -- those won't show up in logs)

Wow Web Stats
I was unpotted, no oil on that one.

Log on with different model:
1- Create a character of the desired model. Log on/off.
2- At character selection screen, select your actual character; mouseover the new, desired model character, and hold down left click; hit enter and release left click at the same time.
bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.

 

• Vykromond

The way you put this in is actually still a little off, sorry. If you have 35-45 energy a 5-point Ferocious Bite is a better idea. It's at higher energy totals that you should keep Shredding.

 

Illuminate

Jesus, 3371 average fireball hit is just disgusting

 

Sathik

Manly: yeah, according to those parses the dmg is comparable, altho the fight is quite favourising fire mages due to the pushbacks.
Still, fire cant give you the control over your dps, which you can have when being arcane
Mostly it will still depend on mages playstyle, and we could argue for hours, well, whatever who likes

 

tedv

I don't think fire versus arcane is an opinion thing that people debate. In the end, all that matters is your total damage done on the kill attempt. Either fire will deal more or arcane will. The data seems to say that fire still wins 80% of the fights, even when you have access to the T5 set bonus for arcane. All mages like the same thing: dealing lots of damage.

 

◊ manly

Well, see, here is the thing. We can argue that the fight favors fire over arcane. It doesn't really matter in the end. What irks me is when I see bland statements like "Deep Arcane beats it by far, its just a thing that you cannot compare." you can be sure I will be quick to point out its a far wide-reaching over generalisation, to be polite. Like any build, it has highs and lows. I would prefer that in the spirit of fairness numbers like 2000 dps be abolished in a corner since we all know it does not represent what is to be expected out of arcane on a regular basis. I welcome any claims that arcane can do good damage, but unless there is an actual proof being shown I would prefer not to see anything on the matter. It just isn't informative in the end.
I like to think its pretty much equal in the end. If only we would get more than WWS parses of mages receiving 2 innervates per fights maybe I could come to a conclusion. I know what to expect out of fire. I have a good idea what to expect out of arcane. There is no debate whether arcane can beat fire dps (with 2pc t5); it surely can. But don't expect a huge difference in the damage barring some ridiculous stacking like a very short fight, or innervates, or double shadow priest (and quite possibly JOW up). I think in the end its a matter of personal preference. I have listed many times my complains about arcane spec in the mage forums, most of them are not dps related, but rather, that non-dpsing tasks stops you from completing your cast cycle. Arcane build was built* to maintain and sustain its cast cycle. As I said, some people take it as a challenge to work around it, some other people, like me, rather view it as being counter-productive to the build.

As I said, I think it's a matter of personal preference.

Log on with different model:
1- Create a character of the desired model. Log on/off.
2- At character selection screen, select your actual character; mouseover the new, desired model character, and hold down left click; hit enter and release left click at the same time.
bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.

 

Myrx

WWS History
11 logs in there now. Hope some of this information helps. All different bosses.

EDIT: Looks like I need to fix Rage and Anetheron. They appear corrupted.

 

• Shifft

I don't know what it is but there's something weird about your Naj'entus log. Your rogues are only doing something like 830-850 DPS when that's an incredibly melee-friendly fight in that you can just stand in and DPS the entire time. Enlighten me if there's something different about your strategy but our rogues generally do 1200+ DPS on that fight, and I know for a fact that you guys are great players.

 

Illuminate

Lack of an enhancement shaman and windfury totems kind of hurts

 

• Playered

Sorry to pull off another request but anyone know of any WWS of Teza in Curse? the potential of a mutilate spec working is interesting but theres none that I could find being any good.

 

• DeeNogger

Mobs that are stunnable are few and far between. But regardless, 5/5 spirit tap and 5/5 blackout are pretty shitty, which ever you prefer. I guess for the 'bad spec' I should have had points in both :p

I write things The word of DeeNogger -- New Blog Post November Something

 

Spades

Yeah, but not 400 DPS worth of hurt. Sounds like a log error to me.

"Existence has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long."
-Rorschach, Watchmen

 

Elendril

There's tons of stunnable mobs in raid zones nowadays.

 

cheebamonkey

There are certain fights where both one will come in handy, like for us we use spirit tap specced SP on the elementals for lady vashj. I do it with a flask of mighty restoration on and never come close to running out of mana, the damage speaks for itself.

Wow Web Stats

Note the damage done to elementals

Enchanted Elemental - WWS


Also note that the deaths in the fight aren't registered correctly since i didn't have deaths range set to 200 yards. All the other data is accurate though.

 

Caerdwynn

Pardon me. I'm new to these forums and have not read this entire thread. I am, however, looking for some help and am apparently too lazy to spend an hour searching through the replies here.

I'm looking specifically for a WWS from a guilds' first or one of its first kills on Magtheridon. Our guild has just progressed to this point, and I would love to have something to compare our current numbers with. Most of what I've been able to find here comes from guilds who's progression far exceeds ours, and it's not overly helpful to get an idea of where we stand compared to them.

Thanks for the help.

For any curious, here's the last 20 of our guild's raids. They include full Kz clears, Void Reaver kills, and Gruul kills.

Wow Web Stats

 

◊ Kaubel

It took me all of 10 seconds using the 'search this thread' feature.

 

Caerdwynn

You're right, and I missed the option. Sorry for being a noob and a pain.

 

cheebamonkey

Your dps is just super low. Your guild is putting out 8k dps on gruul and VR and only 5k on Mag. They need to be goign all out from the get go on that fight, you should have 3 adds down by the time mag breaks free. Also you have 4 shaman with a total of 4 bloodlusts so why aren't you using any? Cycle them through your groups and blow the pants off those add. Use all your cooldowns early.

 

Lavode

Our hunter class leader is survival - 879 dps on our last grull kill, using t4-level loot
Parse: Wow Web Stats
yes, thats a lot of rogues, its what we had on.

First Magtheridon kill
Wow Web Stats
(goddess does my damage ever suck here - being panically overcautious about cubes will do that)

 

Cos-

On that gruul parse. 30 backstabs and 62(?!?) sinister strikes from your best rogue Tagan? That's a conservative 60 dps lost. Tagan didn't feel like poisoning his weapons at all? Your second highest rogue Barbarian never resorted to sinister strikes and was never parried. Tagan should really pay better attention to where they stand.
Barbarian appears to have used deadly poison on both his weapons? He was grouped with a shaman, has no wf gain and only 1 type of poison damage. Your sword rogue appears to only use instant poison and didnt make it into the shaman group as well as proving that both of your top rogues could have used adrenaline rush a second time.

 

Juli

Using this macro may be easier because you can spam the flay key, but results in slightly lower damage, as it is the inverse of a stopcasting macro. For someone who is picky enough to use mageblood/shadow power over flasks, I would think you would look into using stopcasting macros for MB/VT or at least avoid using the nochanneling macro, as it is quite easy to get a 'feel' for when the last tick of flay lands.

Also to expand on the suggestion of limiting the use of MB/SW:D so that you do not run dry: on most encounters you are able to sustain close to a maximum MB/SW:D rotation most of the fight as long as you are optimizing the use of shadowfiend and potion timers in full damage gear. I recommend switching into the 'mana efficiency mode' with just maintaining dots and flaying at around 3k mana with both cooldowns running, which should last you until your next potion or shadowfiend. Obviously you'd want to track your cooldowns closely so you run out right as they come up. That way you don't end a fight with 75% mana because your fiend and pot both came up 45 seconds before the mob died and you couldn't spend the mana you had saved up fast enough. If you ever get into a situation where you can't refresh your dots from lack of mana however, unless the mob has less than 10 seconds or so before it dies, you've lost a lot of damage. Another thing to note that I'm sure many shadow priests fall prey to is that PW:S costs a LOT of mana. Try to keep yourself up with timed MB VE heals, healthstones, charged crystal focus, and intelligent use of SW:D so you don't need shield. As an example, shielding yourself on every gruul shatter is not a good idea unless you're at severe risk of dying.

Additionally, a few other basic tactics can be employed that I haven't seen mentioned in the last few pages of the thread (apologies if they were mentioned earlier, admittedly didn't read all 61 pages). Shadow priests are capable of increasing DPS (and DPM) in much the same way as affliction warlocks by running dot cycles on multiple targets. This definitely runs out your mana much more quickly than anything else you can do, but also does higher dps AND dpm if performed correctly. If you can get 2-3 shadow priests running a multiple target dot cycle, you can get (and maintain) 4-5 stacks of shadow weaving on all the targets, and also provide misery for warlocks doing the same or any AoE your raid is doing. If 2 shadow priests stagger their dot refreshes, weaving will stay up on its own. Alternatively, you can watch the shadow weaving timer and refresh it while dots are running by occasionally MB or SW:D'ing the secondary dot target instead of the focus fired assist target when weaving is going to expire before a dot refresh (resulting in more 'split dps' so the main target dies slightly later, but no net damage loss in the end). It is a more complicated cycle to run and can prove difficult to maintain the shadow weaving and dots on all targets correctly, espeically when dealing with environmental damage/AoE/repositioning, but the damage increase of a cycle that replaces all flay casts with more casts of VT/SW:P is pretty significant. You also provide a full 5-stack of weaving to other casters when they finish the first assist target and switch to the 2nd target immediately upon the switch. It is important to note that when running such a cycle you must be very careful to keep VT running on all targets and that the targets you are dotting are going to live long enough for the dots to run their course; if you don't, your DPM and mana returned to group falls through the floor.

The other basic tactic that can be used to increase DPS as a shadow priest is on highly mobile fights; Al'ar is a great example. Make sure you are ONLY moving when GCD is refreshing from casting SW:D, VE, and SW:P. You can run a fully uninterrupted optimal DPS cycle on Al'ar with pauses only when he flies up to fire quill by doing this. Using SW:D more frequently also obviously increases movement time without dps loss. This strategy can be used to great effect on other encounters as well, such as chasing thaladred around, dpsing striders on vashj, or even something as small as casting SW:D/SW:P/VE when jumping into/out of the water on lurker's spouts.

 

Vaccine

Not bad advice but as your AP gets higher and higher Swipe becomes better TPS than Lacerate around 1900ish ap, of particular note when offtanking in DPS gear pushing 3.5-4kap.



You don't really want to mangle just because it isn't on the targets. Mangles should be timed for maximum uptime vs energy, so the best time to renew a mangle is the tick before you would get energy overflow (where you'd gain more energy than you can hold). Drop a 5p Rip then a mangle and they should stick together for the duration. When you have your next 5cp again, wait for energy to get back up before reapplying mangle (and rip).

As for bleed immune mobs, a good way to greatly incresae your dps is when you have less than 42 energy and more than 34 and 5cp going, drop a FB before instantly switching to caster and back to cat. You get tons of extra energy this way and don't miss an energy tick if you do it quick enough (macros can help here).

You should also get a macro similar to the above that facilitates the use of potions, generally varying ranks of healing potion for aoe fights. Can be a life saver.

 

cheebamonkey

responding to the post two above this.

My take on SWD has always been to use it as a filler in my 7.5 second cycle. So while a given cycle is ideally MB, MF, MF sometimes you have to put up new dots and whatnot and they don't always happen at the same time, so if i have to change my cycle to MB, MF, SWP i'll toss in a SWD to fill that 1.5 second gap.

 

• DeeNogger

The stop casting macros dont allow the flexibility of cast cycles that I can pull without them. For example, on Gruul tonight I was weaving in mindblast as much as possible, and between silences and untimely shatters, a completely smooth spell rotation wasn't possible. Thus situations where my mind blast was on cool down, and VT had about 4 seconds before it was going to fall off I cast a mind flay, get two ticks, then purposefully clip it with a VT refresh. With stopcast macros on my VT and Mindblast, its my understanding that such things aren't possible.

I write things The word of DeeNogger -- New Blog Post November Something

 

Thelyna

Huh? You've got it all wrong. /stopcasting will stop anything you're currently casting and as long as you're not in the GCD you'll be free to start casting anything else you like.

Now if you had /cast [nochanneling] Vampiric Touch (or something similar) then yes you wouldn't be able to clip MF to refresh VT.