The stop casting macros dont allow the flexibility of cast cycles that I can pull without them. For example, on Gruul tonight I was weaving in mindblast as much as possible, and between silences and untimely shatters, a completely smooth spell rotation wasn't possible. Thus situations where my mind blast was on cool down, and VT had about 4 seconds before it was going to fall off I cast a mind flay, get two ticks, then purposefully clip it with a VT refresh. With stopcast macros on my VT and Mindblast, its my understanding that such things aren't possible.
This is exactly what stopcasting allows, no? They cancel your current spell and begin casting another. The trick to them is that if you stop casting after the latest moment at which your client can communicate to the server that the spell should be canceled, the server will still cast the spell, but the client will think the spell cancelled, and so message the server to cast the next spell. The next spell thus begins faster on the server.
But if you hit a stopcasting macro a little early, your current spell is not cast. This means you can easily chop off the final tick of a mindflay using /stopcasting.
Yeah I think you misunderstood what I was getting at. The idea is that you'd be clipping MB/VT's cast client-side by putting stopcasting into macros for all your abilities (including flay, SW:D and VE, not just MB/VT). I didn't mean to say that you should add [nochanneling] to MB/VT but rather that you should remove it from flay so that it would be naturally clippable (aiming for client-side clips that still tick on the server). Also, clipping off a tick of flay to ensure 100% VT uptime probably isn't worth it. You spend 1.5x as much mana per damage for those 2 ticks of flay as you would with a full channel, and unless you clipped it exactly as the 2nd tick occurred, you lost a little extra dps there at well. The 3rd tick would still land inside of VT in that situation, so even if SW:P ticked after VT's expiration, the mana regen loss would be quite minimal (lose a SW:P tick inside VT, gain a flay tick inside VT).
Not bad advice but as your AP gets higher and higher Swipe becomes better TPS than Lacerate around 1900ish ap, of particular note when offtanking in DPS gear pushing 3.5-4kap.
You don't really want to mangle just because it isn't on the targets. Mangles should be timed for maximum uptime vs energy, so the best time to renew a mangle is the tick before you would get energy overflow (where you'd gain more energy than you can hold). Drop a 5p Rip then a mangle and they should stick together for the duration. When you have your next 5cp again, wait for energy to get back up before reapplying mangle (and rip).
As for bleed immune mobs, a good way to greatly incresae your dps is when you have less than 42 energy and more than 34 and 5cp going, drop a FB before instantly switching to caster and back to cat. You get tons of extra energy this way and don't miss an energy tick if you do it quick enough (macros can help here).
You should also get a macro similar to the above that facilitates the use of potions, generally varying ranks of healing potion for aoe fights. Can be a life saver.
I appreciate the advice and I'm thinking about how to explain this in a few sentences so I can add in to the list.
Would it be fair to assume that in 25 man raids, there is always a deep wounds or rupture up, so you never want Mangle to fall off? At least on non-immune monsters.
The benefit to Deep Wounds/Rupture damage from Mangle is negligible in the extent of how much damage you lose by not using that energy on shred/rip.
- Swipe < Lacerate if doing less than 230 damage per swipe on single targets.
- Rip->Mangle with 80+ energy if possible.
- Make sure (F)Fairie Fire stays up - it's quite a boost to physical DPS.
The benefit to Deep Wounds/Rupture damage from Mangle is negligible in the extent of how much damage you lose by not using that energy on shred/rip.
Really? If your rogues are doing their job you should have 2 Ruptures up constantly. Of course, it'll depends on your rogues' spec - a mutilate spec has lower Rupture uptime. But I'd say that with 3 rogues in the raid, having two active ruptures at any given time (i.e. 66% uptime) is a reasonable estimate.
Each Rupture ticks for 200+ damage (i.e. at least 100 dps).
Mangle adds 30% of that - i.e. at least 30 DPS per active rupture.
30 DPS x 2 active ruptures x 12 seconds = 720 damage.
Do shred/rip really do 720 more damage than mangle? Or have I got my calculation hopelessly confused? And doesn't the Mangle boost your own rip damage by 30% too? I really can't see any reason why the priority isn't to keep Mangle up 100% of the time.
The benefit to Deep Wounds/Rupture damage from Mangle is negligible in the extent of how much damage you lose by not using that energy on shred/rip.
- Swipe < Lacerate if doing less than 230 damage per swipe on single targets.
- Rip->Mangle with 80+ energy if possible.
- Make sure (F)Fairie Fire stays up - it's quite a boost to physical DPS.
Those are the main points imo.
Yer nice summary. I'd also be tempted to put a line in about Shred vs FB on bleed immune.
Vs Bleed Immune@5cp:
- If energy >=42 -> Shred.
- If energy 35-41 -> FB -> Shift Caster -> Shift Cat before next energy tick.
edit:
Originally Posted by songster
Do shred/rip really do 720 more damage than mangle? Or have I got my calculation hopelessly confused? And doesn't the Mangle boost your own rip damage by 30% too? I really can't see any reason why the priority isn't to keep Mangle up 100% of the time.
Basically what we're saying is that to maximise our dps cycles we often need to let mangle drop for a few seconds. This is to let us drop rip then mangle straight away to get the full debuff on all our ticks of rip without applying it twice.
Your rupture is unlikely gonna lose more than 1 tick of +30% dmg and in return we can fit an extra shred into our cycle (well over 1k average dmg).
Yer nice summary. I'd also be tempted to put a line in about Shred vs FB on bleed immune.
Vs Bleed Immune@5cp:
- If energy >=42 -> Shred.
- If energy 35-41 -> FB -> Shift Caster -> Shift Cat before next energy tick.
edit:
Basically what we're saying is that to maximise our dps cycles we often need to let mangle drop for a few seconds. This is to let us drop rip then mangle straight away to get the full debuff on all our ticks of rip without applying it twice.
Your rupture is unlikely gonna lose more than 1 tick of +30% dmg and in return we can fit an extra shred into our cycle (well over 1k average dmg).
Pretty much every other debuff in the game has it's damage determined at cast time - are you sure using mangle *after* the rip is giving you any benefit at all? It sounds too obvious for somebody to have not noticed, but this would be different than all other debuff mechanics.
Pretty much every other debuff in the game has it's damage determined at cast time - are you sure using mangle *after* the rip is giving you any benefit at all? It sounds too obvious for somebody to have not noticed, but this would be different than all other debuff mechanics.
Mangle is a debuff not a buff. Cast corruption and let it tick once, then put CoS on that mob. You'll see a 10% increase. Same happens with mangle.
It's only things that affect you directly (charges on thaddius, trinkets, whatever) that calculate damage done on time of cast, while things that affect your target calculate when the damage is done.
Pretty much every other debuff in the game has it's damage determined at cast time - are you sure using mangle *after* the rip is giving you any benefit at all? It sounds too obvious for somebody to have not noticed, but this would be different than all other debuff mechanics.
I think it works kind of like DoTs and Improved Shadow Bolt. If ISB goes up in the middle of the DoT, the ticks in the next 12 seconds (assuming it's not used up before then) will do 20% more damage.
This was my guild's attempt on Gruul last night, and I was disappointed with my dps. It was very nearly the same as previous weeks, but I've since added the two piece bonus from Malorne which should have provided a significant boost. The only other things I can think of that changed were being in a group with casters plus the main tank, so maybe previously I would get ferocious inspiration.
On the log, my character is Snow, any ideas on how I can improve my dps, other than not making the occasional mistake where I mangle too early? This is my armory page. The other trinket is normally the hourglass, and I know I need to keep working on my enchants/gems. I've got about 30% crit chance and 2300 AP(+7 weapon damage) in cat form.
That should be the link to a gruul kill. We also did VR and maulger that night. The one thing i'm wondering is how I can push my own dps higher. I keep a fairly tight snd->rupture rotation going and hardly ever have snd down. I know I could use a bit more hit, but my hit rating isnt terrible. I see rogues pushing 1100+ dps on gruul and i'm trying to figure out how.
One thing to note, I didn't have windfury last night.. but I doubt that would push me 200dps higher. I have everything pluged into the various spreadsheets and they show 1200+ dps buffed.... i was no where near that last night.. even on a kill like gruul I should be sitting around 1000 I would think. I will parse tidwalker this week as well... but im starting to think I have a glaring weakness in my playstyle.. I use a 5s/4r rotation.
Any thoughts? ideas?
Please ignore the shadowpriest dps.. I have already spoken to them about their rotation and they are trying to work on it.
Improve your DPS by:
1) reading this thread
2) reading the myriad of rogue DPS threads
3) have your raid read any of the plethora of DPS threads contained on this board that pertain to their specific class
Improve your DPS by:
1) reading this thread
2) reading the myriad of rogue DPS threads
3) have your raid read any of the plethora of DPS threads contained on this board that pertain to their specific class
Also
4) don't sign your posts
Ive read this thread, ive read the dps sheet, thx for not helping
That should be the link to a gruul kill. We also did VR and maulger that night. The one thing i'm wondering is how I can push my own dps higher. I keep a fairly tight snd->rupture rotation going and hardly ever have snd down. I know I could use a bit more hit, but my hit rating isnt terrible. I see rogues pushing 1100+ dps on gruul and i'm trying to figure out how.
One thing to note, I didn't have windfury last night.. but I doubt that would push me 200dps higher.
Any thoughts? ideas?
Please ignore the shadowpriest dps.. I have already spoken to them about their rotation and they are trying to work on it.
Look at your buffs gained. You only got commanding shout, not battleshout. You dropped a baby 657 point evis for some reason. 5snd/4rupture is not a combat dagger cycle. You basically didn't read the pertinent rogue threads. Try 3snd/5snd/5rupture.
If someone could offer some advice on my WWS that would be great]
If you know you need +hit, why are you obsessed with +agility reds? Regem those to +4ag/+4hr. Get a Dragonspine Trophy and clean up your cycle. Demand a shaman until you get one.
"Existence has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long."
-Rorschach, Watchmen
One thing to note, I didn't have windfury last night.. but I doubt that would push me 200dps higher.
I believe we currently value an enhance shaman with Unleashed Rage, improved SoE and WF totems to be worth 200 DPS to a rogue/fury warrior, and around 400 DPS to an MS warrior.
Inspired by this thread and the "hybrid group setup" thread, we had a "DPS Review" over the past few weeks to see if we could get our act together. Last night's performance was our best yet and proves that gains can be made fairly easily. Our guild first Leotheras kill and our first one-night "clear" of SSC.
- Not our highest Tidewalker DPS, but we'll take it
- Lurker was at 2% on his last dive, which killed our time/dps
- We noobed up the Gruul attempt with 6 people dying on the first shatter. We lived until 18 grows, though (just to see how far we could take it).
- I forgot heroism more than I would have liked.
Your enhance shaman, PoleDancer, has an ... odd choice for a Main Hand weapon. While I realize that we've said "slower is better", he's now using a pretty gimped weapon for his main hand which is severely limiting his damage output. You need to get that corrected ASAP.
Otherwise I'd say that you should remember to have your shaman Bloodlust/Heroism on trash pulls in SSC as well. Especially on the way to the back 3 bosses in SSC you can bloodlust 2-3 times on trash before hitting the boss.
Your enhance shaman, PoleDancer, has an ... odd choice for a Main Hand weapon. While I realize that we've said "slower is better", he's now using a pretty gimped weapon for his main hand which is severely limiting his damage output. You need to get that corrected ASAP.
Are you looking at his uber Savage Axe of the Wolf? No clue why he logged out in that.
07/18/07, 4:41 AM
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