Here is our first "Lurker" Kill from our time in SSC.
*WWS Stats*
(MT died very early but our Feral Tank managed to get a hold of the second Position in the Threat List.)
Comments about our performance and specs would be very appreciated.
Especially for our Enhancement Shaman, Shadow Priest and Off-Warriors.
Are the 6,8k RaidDPS in an acceptable Range for Lurker and the other Bosses in SSC or do we further need to push our DPS?
(A Tipp on which Boss we should try next? MTs do have the necessary Ressi-Equip and we also have 2 FeralTanks with 150 FR/NR each for Hydros)
Many Thanks and I'm looking forward to you answers.
As stated earlier, your shadowpriest is seriously underperforming, with their gear they should be looking at around about double their dps. That said, her trinket choices are particularly awful considering the ease of getting the badge reward trinket, hfp pvp thingy trinket or quagmirrans eye. She also needs to respec, putting the points from imp fade (worlds most useless talent) into shadow focus - considering the ease of a shadowpriest to reach the hitcap it's really quite silly to be sitting around 10%. I'd also advise dropping improved ve, imp scream, silence and take 2 points from improved mindblast to get meditation+inner focus in the disc tree.
With regards to your raid dps, a wws from gruul would really be a better judge of how your dps will cope with the rest of ssc, lurker is asmuch about control as raw dps but generally i'd see that as ok for a firstkill.
The thing that annoyed me is how easily your tank died:
20:09'10.146 Lizzybizzy gains Shield Block
20:09'22.037 Lizzybizzy's Thorium Shield Spike hits The Lurker Below for 18
037 Lizzybizzy's Earth Shield heals Lizzybizzy for 745
053 Lizzybizzy gains 1 Rage from Shield Specialization
521 Lizzybizzy's Melee hits The Lurker Below for 206
521 Sommerwind's Regrowth dot heals Lizzybizzy for 318
521 The Lurker Below's Melee hits Lizzybizzy for 8283 (crushing)
12 seconds without refreshing shieldblock, as a maintank, really isnt good. That aside in the 6secs that lurker killed your tank in, one direct heal and one regrowth hot landed. I'm not sure of your healing setup for lurker but with 8 healers in the raid that's a serious amount of slacking going on from somewhere (well, everywhere)
Well Lurker below is a fight where a Shadow Priest really can shine. Just bug your WL into giving you unending breath (check to renew if necessary or use the pile of Nagrand berries lying around in your bank). Then when first spout comes, dive down and stay down until add phase.
Check all the stats, damage done, damage got, healing done. VE is king here, you can't pull aggro. Healing stat is cheating of course, due to staying below water and continous VE healing, but I do lessen the burden on the healers by basically healing my group through the time they are in the water too.
Careful mana juggling is required though, meaning careful use of Shadow Fiend on Add and chain chugging mana pots whenever possible.
Thanks for the quick answers Deathra, Issues and Cadafael.
I will directly address the issues with our shadow priest and enhancement shaman.
And I will talk to our 2 MTs about the shield block issue and ask her what happened on the Lurker-Kill, but have to admint that I don't have that much experience about the whole tanking stuff. Time to get myself informed about the theory behind shield block, its CD and things like these.
For the Raid-DPS issue regarding if Hydros is manageable I can post our most recent Gruul Kill *WWS Stats Gruul*.
Raid-DPS was just 5,8k but we had 6,2k DPS the week before.
(There we had also the issue with one warlock using CoD everytime neglecting CoE for the raid. Telling it him everytime again but somehow he just keeps saying "you would need 4-5 Mages fo r CoE to be better then CoD")
If anyone else has a few comments I will glady read them and pass them on to the guild.
Many thanks
I'll like to start by saying thanks to everyone in this thread, thanks to you guys my casual guild manage to get one small step forward.
I've been doing all the parse for my guild myself by folloing the examples in this post for ~3 months but now i would need some more advised comments, specially about my own DPS.
Any comments and suggestions are welcome.
For info:
We kill gruul for about ~2 months every week but have problems going further because of alot of rooster problems.
We only had one chamy (elem) in this figth and he was with the mage/mage/mage/SP group.
I had salvation in the begining of the figth (5 mins one), but still died a ~17% (execute phase on DW is where i always die, no reckleness used)
The thing that annoyed me is how easily your tank died:
20:09'10.146 Lizzybizzy gains Shield Block
20:09'22.037 Lizzybizzy's Thorium Shield Spike hits The Lurker Below for 18
037 Lizzybizzy's Earth Shield heals Lizzybizzy for 745
053 Lizzybizzy gains 1 Rage from Shield Specialization
521 Lizzybizzy's Melee hits The Lurker Below for 206
521 Sommerwind's Regrowth dot heals Lizzybizzy for 318
521 The Lurker Below's Melee hits Lizzybizzy for 8283 (crushing)
12 seconds without refreshing shieldblock, as a maintank, really isnt good. That aside in the 6secs that lurker killed your tank in, one direct heal and one regrowth hot landed. I'm not sure of your healing setup for lurker but with 8 healers in the raid that's a serious amount of slacking going on from somewhere (well, everywhere)
I am pretty sure you're reading this wrong. Unless Shieldblock is different from other buffs, reapplying it before it wears off is not logged.
Look at the following lines:
20:09'10.146 Lizzybizzy gains Shield Block
20:09'16.974 The Lurker Below's Melee hits Lizzybizzy for 4964 (370 blocked)
20:09'19.740 The Lurker Below's Melee hits Lizzybizzy for 4228 (370 blocked)
20:09'21.318 The Lurker Below's Melee hits Lizzybizzy for 5614 (370 blocked)
20:09'22.521 The Lurker Below's Melee hits Lizzybizzy for 8283 (crushing)
Allowing for latency/jitter it is pretty safe to assume that the 20:09'16.974 block arrived much too late in the log and shieldblock got refreshed around 20:09'16 before fading, and it's 2 blocks+1crushing in the 5 seconds thereafter, so I would not blame the tank.
Here is a WWS from our Gruul attempts: Wow Web Stats
Unfortunately there is no data from Try 3 and Try 4...
We know about people should use more potions.
Comments would be very appreciated.
Potions won't help horrible players. Take a look at your hunters shot rotations (there's a thread about it here) and you'll understand that having more steady shots than auto shots is bad, and that Gezielter Schuss (I'm guessing that's Aimed Shot) is a big nein nein for dps.
Here's our first Gruul kill (yesterday) with people in Karazhan eq Wow Web Stats
Our top dps'er is a hunter (963), comparing his shot cycle with the hunters you have at ~350 should give you a few pointers.
Ok then, this will be my first post ever in this forum. Although i never posted here, but just out of the fact that i read all the stuff here as often as time lets me i've come to the conclusion that you are a great bunch of people and do important work for the community and the game itself - thank you for that
Well now the purpose of my post, we're having the first shots at kael'thas lately and i was playing around with my new tool wws a bit.
As an officer in my guild i tried to min/max a bit and teach all the members some tricks or redirect them here to step up our game.
Well to wrap it all up, i could use some tips from you guys now as to what should be done differently to make the last step into endgame raiding because that's were most of us want to get. As a side effect you could help a bit in the specific kael'thas fight as to what specs/skills to use etc.
Here is our first "Lurker" Kill from our time in SSC.
Comments about our performance and specs would be very appreciated.
Especially for our Enhancement Shaman, Shadow Priest and Off-Warriors.
About your enhance shaman Darknef:
This is from his Buffs/Gains table on the parse:
Windfury 5 1
Fire Elemental Totem 1
Windfury 4 1
Big no-no. He seems to think he can still stack Windfury 5/4 to get around the cooldown. This is not the case. Bad enough he's got an insanely fast OH, but he's also gimping the damage of his windfury even further by downranking the imbue.
T4 legs are crap, have him run some heroic slave pens to get the leather legs from the last boss. As mentioned above, he's got sub-par gems going on. He seems to be intent on getting every socket bonus, but a +3 stam bonus is not something he should be dropping DPS gems for. He's got mostly +AP gems so he's losing extra AP from Blessing of Kings.
Thanks for the quick answers Deathra, Issues and Cadafael.
I will directly address the issues with our shadow priest and enhancement shaman.
And I will talk to our 2 MTs about the shield block issue and ask her what happened on the Lurker-Kill, but have to admint that I don't have that much experience about the whole tanking stuff. Time to get myself informed about the theory behind shield block, its CD and things like these.
Your shadowpriest's DPS is so low I think he was disconnected for part of the fight. If that wasn't the case, let him know he has no aggro worries during Lurker. Its a very SW friendly fight as well, so he should have no reason to hold back at all. Mind Flay can reach from the front edge of all the platforms, so make sure he positions well.
There is also no reason for him to be wanding (ever). VT+Flay on the adds if he really is having mana issues. Also, the potion cooldown is the same length as the time between add phases. Have him pop a potion every time adds spawn.
Many Thanks and I'm looking forward to you answers.
Ladylittle needs to sort his spec, he got 43 points in frost without taking water elemental, his gear could be boosted a lot though tailoring items like spellstrike items.
Grath needs to use more fireballs and fire blasts in his rotation
mainly a little gear note to your feral tank
Élfie got 434 defense and on top of that 30 resilience which is way above the cap. He needs to enchant his gear(35 agility on Earthwarden, 12 agility on his cloak, Caverns of time head enchant and 15 agility on his gloves) and get new sockets, to get rid of his parry gem in his head along with reducing his defence gems a lot
also tell him to get max out heart of the wild talent as this talent is an absolute must
Kael is a bad fight to analyze solely via WWS. If you want help on Kael post a description of what your experiences with the fight have been and what's been wiping you, in the Kael thread, and include the WWS there. I'd have to pretty much manually read through the combat log and spend an hour examining all the stats to try to understand exactly what you're doing on Kael from just the WWS.
DPS matters on Kael, but often not in a way that can be measured by WWS except in terms of DPS uptime (which itself is skewed by phase 1 and phase 2). If you want tips on improving DPS, post a parse for something like Void Reaver, Morogrim, etc. If you want tips on Kael, post in the Kael thread.
venustar is using a dagger offhand but combat sword, Should probably pickup latro's?
Ataluta logged out in hopefully pvp gear but even that is badly enchanted/gemmed, AP gems and enchants are NEVER a good thing for warriors.
Usual stuff about warlocks keeping a better eye on dots (They cant pull aggro on lurker)
Sethlah doesn't have the gear for destruction and should probably go affliction. Loster would probably do alot more damage as affliction aswell.
Geldor needs to improve his shot rotation a bit and he might want to swap out the haste trinket for a crit trinket (personal opinion). He has loads of hit aswell and could improve his crit/AP a little.
Depending on your tactic for lurker below (Sheeping 1-2 adds permantly) You dont need 2 protection warriors sat in full tank gear, Have them stick full fury gear on and spam Devastate/Heroic strike/Whirlwind it's actually half decent dps.
How do you tank him Lavode? one of your rogues died to lurker below, When he's doing the spout sit in the water he will knock you out (When he whirls) but not far enough to be out of melee range and you can continue tanking him.
One gets permasheeped because we dont have the dps to kill all three during submerge (definately not with 3 dps absent) and we found that killing it after the emerge just cost too much dps time on the lurker, it will work, but the kill becomes absurdly slow, which increases the chances of things going wrong.
I step into the water when he whirls, which gets me knocked out instantly, and feral charge any geysers I eat - which keeps my positioning very well. Not sure how stella bought it, must have been slow that time. .-/
not sure the warriors have decent fury kit, but will check.
Seth is affiction, again. and loster appears to do roughly the same dps as any spec. I'll point them at the warlock thread here I guess.
Kael is a bad fight to analyze solely via WWS. If you want help on Kael post a description of what your experiences with the fight have been and what's been wiping you, in the Kael thread, and include the WWS there. I'd have to pretty much manually read through the combat log and spend an hour examining all the stats to try to understand exactly what you're doing on Kael from just the WWS.
DPS matters on Kael, but often not in a way that can be measured by WWS except in terms of DPS uptime (which itself is skewed by phase 1 and phase 2). If you want tips on improving DPS, post a parse for something like Void Reaver, Morogrim, etc. If you want tips on Kael, post in the Kael thread.
Ah ok i understand, still there is a parse of Solarian included in there
Well Lurker below is a fight where a Shadow Priest really can shine. Just bug your WL into giving you unending breath (check to renew if necessary or use the pile of Nagrand berries lying around in your bank). Then when first spout comes, dive down and stay down until add phase.
Check all the stats, damage done, damage got, healing done. VE is king here, you can't pull aggro. Healing stat is cheating of course, due to staying below water and continous VE healing, but I do lessen the burden on the healers by basically healing my group through the time they are in the water too.
Careful mana juggling is required though, meaning careful use of Shadow Fiend on Add and chain chugging mana pots whenever possible.
Sorry if this is too obvious but is the point of staying in the water to minimize the downtime and incoming damage from spout and geysers? Of course, the entire time your VE is keeping your group topped off.
Are the 6,8k RaidDPS in an acceptable Range for Lurker and the other Bosses in SSC or do we further need to push our DPS?
We've had kills (even after our first kill) with less DPS, and we barely managed to beat that on the same week that we took Morogrim down. More DPS is always good, but you should be able to do at least a few more bosses with that.
Originally Posted by Jokie
Sorry if this is too obvious but is the point of staying in the water to minimize the downtime and incoming damage from spout and geysers? Of course, the entire time your VE is keeping your group topped off.
No effect on geysers, just saves you from needing to move for Spout.
I was wondering if you can help me with something.
This is our log from our last vashj kill: Wow Web Stats
Im really concerned with the DPS of the people at the bottom (Note; Stony kites in P2 so his DPS is rather lower than in reality)
Logs from other bosses show similar results, is there anything you can suggest to improve the situation at all? or is it as i feel a lost cause with them and time to find people with a better grasp of how to play?
Thank you for all your answers.
I've written a big thread in our own Forum about the suggestions You've made, including Links Gems and all the aspects you have hinted at.
No I've to wait and see, if at least some of the people are thinking about it and try to optimize their part for the Raid.
Sorry if this is too obvious but is the point of staying in the water to minimize the downtime and incoming damage from spout and geysers? Of course, the entire time your VE is keeping your group topped off.
It's basically to minimize the need to move. During movement, you can only have your DoT's ticking. That's quite a loss of DPS (and for a Shadow Priest, that results in a loss of mana restored, life restored and damage done, ie. loss of damage and loss of support).
Besides there certainly isn't anyone near you when you stay below (at least, you have more space) so geysir on you doesn't hit anyone else and you don't get someone else's.
If lurker had no spout, I'd stand in one spot all the time nuking him. Diving down and staying there until add phase is basically the same thing just dodging the spout with minimal effort and movement.
I am certain there is much room for improvement. Specifically, I am posting to get some help on the Warlocks. Our Class Leader left the game and we have been hurting without his expertise ever since. Any advice on the other classes will be very much appreciated as well.
I'm hoping to get Lurker and Hydross WWS's tonight.
Quick notes:
Okragos was MS for the fight.
Mutiny was MT - I had accidentally left him as a Mob.
I'm not a Scorpid fan :X I should use it one last time before patch, but I'll manage.
Edit: I should mention I'm looking for any information on how to tighten up the raid in any particular fight. Usually, the warlocks are much lower on damage with the top 3 being gutran, Okan, and Letters. Anything I could have overlooked to help increase any part of performance would be appreciated.
I was wondering if you can help me with something.
This is our log from our last vashj kill: Wow Web Stats
Im really concerned with the DPS of the people at the bottom (Note; Stony kites in P2 so his DPS is rather lower than in reality)
Logs from other bosses show similar results, is there anything you can suggest to improve the situation at all? or is it as i feel a lost cause with them and time to find people with a better grasp of how to play?
Any help is much appreciated as always =) keep up the good work here, lots of entertaining threads to read ^^
Ok, for Lucenjere, have him drop either jewelcrafting or enchanting to learn tailoring. Id go with Jewelcrafting, its not needed. No, really, have him do it. No, really. FSW boots are the best youll get until /maybe/ Sunwell or ZA, there is nothing better, and FSW robe is hands down better than the t4 chestpiece, really that thing is a joke. Why does he have Xi'ri's Gift equipped and not an Icon of the Silver Crescent? And a Fathonstone equipped and not a Orb of the Soul-Eater? It only takes 67 badges for those 2 pieces, he really needs to farm them asap.
Why is he wearing the t5 gloves if he isnt using them for the 4piece? Put the Handwraps of Flowing Though on, they are better, and you only want to use those gloves if youre using them for the bonus.
Am I missing something on his gems? hes got 17.34% chance to hit atm, and hes got 4 4spell hit/5 spell damage gems on. They need to be replaced by runed living rubies. They arent helping you at all. Take the 5 spell damage/6 stam gem out too and put in runed living rubies as well.
Why not Soulfrost on the Nathrezim Mindblade? Its a great weapon and unless youre omg close to getting merciless gladiators i dont understand why you wouldnt enchant it to full with Soulfrost. And it would be best to put on Subtlety to the Ruby Drape, once you get Curse of Shadows, your that enchant becomes useless.
On talents, take the points out of imp scream and silence and imp vampiric embrace. Put them in improved Mind Blast, youll get much more dps by using mind blast on cooldown, and dont really get anything from those talents in a raid situation.
I was wondering if you can help me with something.
This is our log from our last vashj kill: Wow Web Stats
Im really concerned with the DPS of the people at the bottom (Note; Stony kites in P2 so his DPS is rather lower than in reality)
Logs from other bosses show similar results, is there anything you can suggest to improve the situation at all? or is it as i feel a lost cause with them and time to find people with a better grasp of how to play?
Any help is much appreciated as always =) keep up the good work here, lots of entertaining threads to read ^^
I'm more concerned by your feral who didn't tank, yet almost got beat by the sub-par DPSers you're worried about.
He might want to rethink some of his gear/gem choices, unless he's intentionally DPSing in half cat, half bear gear. His attack rotation seems close to right, he's just not pushing the numbers he could be. I would strongly suggest switching those hit-rating (and GREEN stam! Sorry, pet peeve) gems in favor of some agi/hit, additionally, setting up his T4 shoulders for DPS would be much more of a benefit than keeping them tank-oriented, which I assume is for T4 4pc (which is a needless crutch, but I digress!)
Those kinds of things become very critical later on when you are faced with an encounter that WILL kill people, and your druids need to carry their weight for more than a combat rez is worth.
(Checked back through a few of your parses, and he can't blame it on Vashj being a mobility fight! Similar numbers in more 'melee-friendly' fights as well)
I'm more concerned by your feral who didn't tank, yet almost got beat by the sub-par DPSers you're worried about.
He might want to rethink some of his gear/gem choices, unless he's intentionally DPSing in half cat, half bear gear. His attack rotation seems close to right, he's just not pushing the numbers he could be. I would strongly suggest switching those hit-rating (and GREEN stam! Sorry, pet peeve) gems in favor of some agi/hit, additionally, setting up his T4 shoulders for DPS would be much more of a benefit than keeping them tank-oriented, which I assume is for T4 4pc (which is a needless crutch, but I digress!)
Those kinds of things become very critical later on when you are faced with an encounter that WILL kill people, and your druids need to carry their weight for more than a combat rez is worth.
(Checked back through a few of your parses, and he can't blame it on Vashj being a mobility fight! Similar numbers in more 'melee-friendly' fights as well)
I'm wondering more how he managed to do 88k damage with static charge, as a druid (i.e. roots = shift, rather than getting screwed like other melee classes). Without that damage, he did about 20k less damage than the shadow priest you're so worried about (who has 0 damage attributed to static charge, just for reference).
I'm wondering more how he managed to do 88k damage with static charge, as a druid (i.e. roots = shift, rather than getting screwed like other melee classes). Without that damage, he did about 20k less damage than the shadow priest you're so worried about (who has 0 damage attributed to static charge, just for reference).
Wow, didn't even notice that. 52 hits of Static Charge from a druid is just lazy. Your ferals should have the lowest amount of Static Charge hits attributed to them of all the melee, for the reason dukes mentioned above.
I am certain there is much room for improvement. Specifically, I am posting to get some help on the Warlocks. Our Class Leader left the game and we have been hurting without his expertise ever since. Any advice on the other classes will be very much appreciated as well.
I'm not sure what advice you're looking for. One warlock died 2 minutes into the fight and the other kept up curse of elements for your 6 (!) mages and had reasonable DoT uptime. He should really respec Malediction, since that's the primary raiding reason you'd want an affliction warlock over a destro warlock (or shadow priest). And only having one point in Shadow Embrace creates a wasted debuff slot, so it would be better for him not to spend that talent point at all. But those are the only major issues I see.
Of course other people need work. Your lowest DPS hunter, Runningwater, has more total special abilities than autoshots, so they probably don't understand the concept of a shot rotation. They did 3 minutes of autoshot during the 6 minutes they were alive-- that's just unacceptable. They are using serpent sting.
Your shadow priest should be in a group with 4 mages (ideally the fire mages, not the frost), not a group with 2 mages and 2 hunters. He also needs to work on DoT uptime. He has a little under 5 minutes of shadow word pain and only 3.5 minutes of vampiric touch. I don't know how long he was dead before getting a rebirth, but he could have had at least 90 seconds of extra touch time, both for extra damage and mana regen.
A shaman for windfury would increase your damage immensely.
08/20/07, 5:27 AM
friendly fight as well, so he should have no reason to hold back at all. Mind Flay can reach from the front edge of all the platforms, so make sure he positions well.
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