I think it was either a range or position bug with the warlock. He was at max range and in an odd position.
Yes, I think this is the case. If the warlock are able to attack Leo in demon form but Leo isn't able to attack back (due to his attack range being shorter than the warlock's Searing Pain) you get this behaviour. I think the difference is small (our warlock said something about 2 pixels ...) maybe Leo's attack range is ~35y and Searing Pain is 36y.
Theory was somewhat proved by having the warlock a bit closer and we never saw the same behaviour again.
Yesterday we had our first couple of attempts on Leotheras. There are a bunch of people who have trouble in the inner demon phase, and while there are definitely a couple of things that each of them can improve, I was wondering whether having a priest respec to deep discipline and use reflective shield would provide help. Theoretically, targets can be shielded twice during the demon phase, and dealing an extra 1500 damage would help healers and Def-Tanks immensly.
Does anyone know, whether reflective shield (or thorns, I imagine) work on the inner demons?
Lighting shield works so i think all kind of damage shields works
Yesterday we had our first couple of attempts on Leotheras. There are a bunch of people who have trouble in the inner demon phase, and while there are definitely a couple of things that each of them can improve, I was wondering whether having a priest respec to deep discipline and use reflective shield would provide help. Theoretically, targets can be shielded twice during the demon phase, and dealing an extra 1500 damage would help healers and Def-Tanks immensly.
Does anyone know, whether reflective shield (or thorns, I imagine) work on the inner demons?
Reflective damage does work on the demons, but I'd be careful with it in some cases. There's a number of bugs with killing the Inner Demons, including such things as pets getting killing blows, and I seem to remember hearing the same can happen with reflective damage effects.
Either way, healers just wearing a bit of spell damage (and having spell weapon/shield/off-hand/whatever available to switch to) should be plenty to cover it. Spell damage trinkets and the like are extremely good for the encounter as well.
Our prot warriors still have issues killing the inner demon reporting he only shadowbolts once in the whole demon phase. Is there any other tip than just Sunder + Devastate to kill it (with Shield Bash)?
Here is a very specific and foolproof way for full protection warriors to kill their demons every time.
1) Make sure they equip hybrid dps/tanking gear at the start of the fight (err on the side of dps gear).
2) Dual Wield dps weapons at the start of phase 2 and enter berserker stance BEFORE building a full rage bar (very important).
3) Don't go below 80 rage on the demon. Again, you should ALREADY be in zerker stance.
4) When the inner demon appears, sunder away. If you get close to a full rage bar, heroic strike like crazy. Pop trinkets when two or three sunders are up.
5) Devastate. Heroic strike only as a rage dump after 5 sunders.
Do NOT attempt to kill your inner demon with a shield-although it is entirely 'possible' it is a dangerous, terrible idea.
We keep a resto shaman in the prot tank's group, if it's obvious that he's having problems killing his demon we just have the shaman pop heroism. It's only good once per fight, but it's still helped us in the past. He also provides windfury totem throughout the fight for aggro help, so it's not a waste or anything.
Here is a very specific and foolproof way for full protection warriors to kill their demons every time.
1) Make sure they equip hybrid dps/tanking gear at the start of the fight (err on the side of dps gear).
2) Dual Wield dps weapons at the start of phase 2 and enter berserker stance BEFORE building a full rage bar (very important).
3) Don't go below 80 rage on the demon. Again, you should ALREADY be in zerker stance.
4) When the inner demon appears, sunder away. If you get close to a full rage bar, heroic strike like crazy. Pop trinkets when two or three sunders are up.
5) Devastate. Heroic strike only as a rage dump after 5 sunders.
Do NOT attempt to kill your inner demon with a shield-although it is entirely 'possible' it is a dangerous, terrible idea.
I'm gonna have to disagree, killing demons with a shield is generally preferable IMO. Just equip a Gnomeregan Auto-Blocker and a bunch of block value gear and you can get huge shield slams on them as well as being able to spell reflect shadow bolts.
Since we've given our prot warriors a Windfury for Leo, they've never even came close to failing on their demons. They kill them faster than most casters in the raid if they get a Reflect off.
Here is a very specific and foolproof way for full protection warriors to kill their demons every time.
1) Make sure they equip hybrid dps/tanking gear at the start of the fight (err on the side of dps gear).
2) Dual Wield dps weapons at the start of phase 2 and enter berserker stance BEFORE building a full rage bar (very important).
3) Don't go below 80 rage on the demon. Again, you should ALREADY be in zerker stance.
4) When the inner demon appears, sunder away. If you get close to a full rage bar, heroic strike like crazy. Pop trinkets when two or three sunders are up.
5) Devastate. Heroic strike only as a rage dump after 5 sunders.
Do NOT attempt to kill your inner demon with a shield-although it is entirely 'possible' it is a dangerous, terrible idea.
Completely disagree here. I use a shield every time (keep in mind I didn't start doing Leo till his shade nerf), and have always had at least 7 seconds to spare. It's always just been switch to battle stance at the start of Demon Phase, get to 100 rage, wait for inner demon, shield slam/hs and when it shadowbolts just do a spell reflect. Another shield slam and it's generally in execute range by then.
We had our first night of attempts last night, and our first kill last night at the very end of the evening.
We used 3 tanks. 2 prot wars and 1 warlock in max FR. We had the 2 prot wars fighting for aggro after every WW, and it seems to work very well after people got the hang of stopping dps at call.
Thanks for all the great info in this thread, it really helped.
I'll reinforce the comments about the Searing totems in the middle of the room - they make it hugely easier to pick Leo up after whirlwind.
We have a foolproof way to make sure your Prot Warriors can kill their demons; let the Feral tank Leo in human form and tell the Warriors to all wear dps gear (they offtank the initial adds in full dps gear with a shield).
Any decently equipped Feral will have no issues killing his demon in Catform even with tanking gear. Just make sure you use agi potion or damage flask instead of hp buffs and make sure you are in Catform during demon phase.
I'll reinforce the comments about the Searing totems in the middle of the room - they make it hugely easier to pick Leo up after whirlwind.
We have a foolproof way to make sure your Prot Warriors can kill their demons; let the Feral tank Leo in human form and tell the Warriors to all wear dps gear (they offtank the initial adds in full dps gear with a shield).
Any decently equipped Feral will have no issues killing his demon in Catform even with tanking gear. Just make sure you use agi potion or damage flask instead of hp buffs and make sure you are in Catform during demon phase.
This is what we do as well. Unless we decide to bring two ferals.
Does Nether Protection dump aggro on Leotheras until it expires? I am considering speccing back to Destruction but I want to make sure that Leo will stay on me reliably even if NP procs. I am currently soul-linking a felhunter and tanking him with very little issue, but my dps overall is down as Demo...
On another note we had a mage tank demon phase, and it was our cleanest kill yet. 2x iceblock is without doubt the safest way to offtank sub 15% demon form. Only problem is, who actually has frost mages these days...
Does Nether Protection dump aggro on Leotheras until it expires? I am considering speccing back to Destruction but I want to make sure that Leo will stay on me reliably even if NP procs. I am currently soul-linking a felhunter and tanking him with very little issue, but my dps overall is down as Demo...
Nether Protection doesn't proc from Leotheras at all.
I've noticed many guilds reporting their hunters having trouble with their inner demons. The first few times i had exactly the same and was MCed almost every time (and my gear is quite decent i should say). But i found the solution and havent been MCed ever since with good time to spare on the kills.
Forget about the pets and CC traps. Not worth the micro management in the heated time you have to kill it. Also not worth the risk of a pet getting the killing blow and the hunter getting MCed anyway.
The trick lies within the inner demons spell weaknesses. They are so very weak to nature and arcane that the solution is right below the hunters nose. So when your hunters get inner demons, tell them to do this:
- stand still, pop immolation trap on it (free damage)
- wing clip and get range
- as soon as you have minimum shooting range (8 yards) pop max rank serpent sting. This gimp shot will tick for around 540 as far as i remember on the inner demons
- keep going and pop arcane shot once the GCD is over
- keep going and pop concussive shot once the GCD is over again
- time to pop multi and normal steady-auto rotation
Sometimes with lucky crits the demon will be dead before reaching you (which leaves you with lots of time to spare). Sometimes only near dead. Run through it with wing clip, raptor/mongoose and finish it off on the other side.
The only thing they have to be afraid of while doing this is getting dazed really. Enjoy =)
The pet could be dead, the trap will be armed and go off once you have targetted and wingclipped it. You could lay the trap and have the pet ready before insidious whisper ofcourse, but pet growl currently having issues (and the risk of the pet getting the killing blow) versus the amount of damage you need to do to the demon within a short time results in the demon going for you anyway.
I prefer to have it wing clipped while getting range and doing the initial attacks rather than rely on concussive shot alone. Since i started doing it this way i never encountered any problems.
Our hunters prefer using their pet, they just let it get aggro to start with, do a jump-shot Serpent Sting while getting a good amount of range, put their pet on stay and passive, and then just act as it's any other mob they're DPSing in a raid, with the only difference being that Arcane Shot is the most preferred instant shot to use. And obviously blowing Concussive when they get Demon aggro, one of our hunters I believe even times it so that he starts off with a DPS trap and makes use of a Frost Trap as well by juggling the timing well (That is, he drops Immo at the start of a demon phase, and drops the Frost Trap as part of the moving away after pet gets aggro).
Is it confirmed that the inner demons all spawn with the same life each time (seemingly 10-12k or so)? I have seen conflicting reports. Some people state that the inner demons spawn with your stats. I.e. resilience, HP, etc. I would see this as making it nearly impossible for a prot tank to take down his demon though so I will have to call foul here and say their health is definately "normalised".
What about other stats? I wore my PvP gear once and did not get a single crit special with 30% crit chance. I have a decent chunk of resilience which may have contributed, but I think it was just bad luck.
Lastly, do feral druids find it worth while to use barkskin, and spam Wrath until barkskin wears off to help take down their demons? I saw a post earlier saying ferals should pick up 500 spell damage and kill their demons with wrath but I am REALLY loathe to a)get yet another gear set (Dps, PvP, Heal, Tank, Hydross resists) and b)cut down my stats so badly for the rest of the fight. I can maybe see saving 100 energy in cat for whet he demons are cast, unleash on it until I can FB it, then switch to caster, use barkskin and spam wrath to finish it off as being effective. Currently I save 100 energy and stay cat until it dies. If wrath really is that effective, I could use up my full energy bar, swap to the best +spell damage weapon I can find and then spam wrath till it is dead.
The problem with trying something new (currently I get my demon down every time, it just just a little close sometimes) that it will at least make me look like an idiot and could possible cause a wipe if it happens early =). What is the damage of wrath on the demon if you have 0 spell damage?
There is light at the end of the tunnel.
The only problem is, it's often an incoming train.
Is it confirmed that the inner demons all spawn with the same life each time (seemingly 10-12k or so)? I have seen conflicting reports. Some people state that the inner demons spawn with your stats. I.e. resilience, HP, etc. I would see this as making it nearly impossible for a prot tank to take down his demon though so I will have to call foul here and say their health is definately "normalised".
What about other stats? I wore my PvP gear once and did not get a single crit special with 30% crit chance. I have a decent chunk of resilience which may have contributed, but I think it was just bad luck.
Lastly, do feral druids find it worth while to use barkskin, and spam Wrath until barkskin wears off to help take down their demons? I saw a post earlier saying ferals should pick up 500 spell damage and kill their demons with wrath but I am REALLY loathe to a)get yet another gear set (Dps, PvP, Heal, Tank, Hydross resists) and b)cut down my stats so badly for the rest of the fight. I can maybe see saving 100 energy in cat for whet he demons are cast, unleash on it until I can FB it, then switch to caster, use barkskin and spam wrath to finish it off as being effective. Currently I save 100 energy and stay cat until it dies. If wrath really is that effective, I could use up my full energy bar, swap to the best +spell damage weapon I can find and then spam wrath till it is dead.
The problem with trying something new (currently I get my demon down every time, it just just a little close sometimes) that it will at least make me look like an idiot and could possible cause a wipe if it happens early =). What is the damage of wrath on the demon if you have 0 spell damage?
If you are in DPS gear, you shouldn't even be close to missing your demon kill in cat form. I've never tried it in tanking gear, but that could be rough, depending on your stats. Then again, Leo isn't a heavy-hitter, so if I was going to tank, I'd definatly go with a mix of DPS and tanking stuff.
I've noticed many guilds reporting their hunters having trouble with their inner demons. The first few times i had exactly the same and was MCed almost every time (and my gear is quite decent i should say). But i found the solution and havent been MCed ever since with good time to spare on the kills.
Forget about the pets and CC traps. Not worth the micro management in the heated time you have to kill it. Also not worth the risk of a pet getting the killing blow and the hunter getting MCed anyway.
The trick lies within the inner demons spell weaknesses. They are so very weak to nature and arcane that the solution is right below the hunters nose. So when your hunters get inner demons, tell them to do this:
- stand still, pop immolation trap on it (free damage)
- wing clip and get range
- as soon as you have minimum shooting range (8 yards) pop max rank serpent sting. This gimp shot will tick for around 540 as far as i remember on the inner demons
- keep going and pop arcane shot once the GCD is over
- keep going and pop concussive shot once the GCD is over again
- time to pop multi and normal steady-auto rotation
Sometimes with lucky crits the demon will be dead before reaching you (which leaves you with lots of time to spare). Sometimes only near dead. Run through it with wing clip, raptor/mongoose and finish it off on the other side.
The only thing they have to be afraid of while doing this is getting dazed really. Enjoy =)
I use both arcane shot and serpent sting (max) on my demon, but I also use my pet. When the insidious whisper is casting I lay snake trap. If I do indeed get a demon I immediately call my pet back with intimidation ready and pop BW. When the demon gets to about 20-30% I send my pet back to Leo and kill the demon. I made the mistake on one of our early attempts and let my pet kill the demon. Basically use whatever works for you, but definitely use arcane and serpent sting, you can kill your demon in about 15 seconds no problem.
I am my guilds FR tank for Leo. We learned this pre-2.1 so thats why we use a lock. If your just learning the fight I suggest using a Warrior as many others have said its a lot easier for a warrior to grab aggro where as a Warlock has to time Curse of Doom and Searing Pain and what not.
I am my guilds FR tank for Leo. We learned this pre-2.1 so thats why we use a lock. If your just learning the fight I suggest using a Warrior as many others have said its a lot easier for a warrior to grab aggro where as a Warlock has to time Curse of Doom and Searing Pain and what not.
We recently killed leo for our first time and did it with a warlock tank. It's really all about your guild's preference. Our demon-phase tank is pretty darn good at getting aggro right at the switch. Sometimes he'll toss a random fireball out to a couple people before he locks on the lock, but it's nothing to drastic.
07/16/07, 5:57 AM
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