Hunter possible? Sure.

Threat generation w/o fire resistance gear is pretty good, but why gimp your raid? A Warlock tank is superior in every aspect. They take less damage, they produce probably the best threat in the game, they need less FR if specced that way, and take 20-26% more healing.

Any class is possible for the most part if you have the Fire Resistance gear. Im sure a Rogue could probably do it as well, though a lot of people would be threat capped.

My guild is going to start attempts on Leo soon, so I just skimmed through this thread.

I'm curious, about how much +hit do you need as a healer to ensure you own your Inner Demon? I saw someone mention 5-6% earlier in the thread, but I haven't seen any solid numbers on it. Once 2.3 comes out, I will probably only need to swap in a few +hit items as my +healing will give me all the +dmg I'll need.

I was thinking about wearing the [Belt of Depravity] from Heroic Arc, the [Arcanist's Stone] trinket from Heroic OH (it's only 25 +hit, but I'm Aldor and do not have access to the Scryer Bloodgem) and swapping in my [Tirisfal Wand of Ascendancy] just for killing the Demon. This would be 53 +hit. I'm not sure if it'd be enough, but I'm not entirely sure when I could get some more, easily.

So, TLDR version: How much hit should I have for my Inner Demon?

Its been too long since ive done it to remember - but are they level 70? On wowhead they are listed as level 70 mobs, but this might be wrong. If they are - you would only need a couple % hit (of course, this might be different if they are 73)

I would just wait for 2.3, healing->spell damage gear change is huge in terms of helping healers on Leo. You can basically do this fight wearing your best healing gear and you will still have higher damage output then in mixed gear you were using before 2.3.

+hit can be safely ignored in your calculations. Safe bet for killing the demon is PW:S every cooldown, smithe spam and hopefully staying in paladin group for minimalizing spell pushback (concentration aura). Inner demons take extra damage from holy, nature and arcane spells, so smithing demon to oblivion is the best idea. Especially that under 2.3 you can easily have +600-700 spell damage in your normal healing gear.

I did a search on this thread, but I couldn't find anything relating to what I've experienced.

Currently working on Leo, and I expect him to go down tonight. The issue I'm curious about is the addition of pets.

All the strats i have read, indicate that if an inner demon is killed by a pet, the pet owner gets MC'd, anyway.

Fair enough.

With that said, I looked at My WWS for a previous night, and noticed that my pet had gotten the killing blow on my inner demon twice, but I was never MC'd.

Has it been changed so that pets CAN get the killing blow now? Maybe the strats I've read are simply out of date?

Or is it possible that WWS is just inaccurate?

Has anyone else seen this behaviour?

I run with just short of 16k hp. Also a stack of nightmare seeds (+~1500hp for 30seconds, I can't remember the exact numbers) can help a ton with a bad string of hits to prevent getting 1 shot. If its happening often, then its not bad luck. Does your lock have soul link, is he using it? Does he have max resists? Is he counting on FR aura and not getting it? (this happens to me a lot since we use 1 paladin switching between FR and devotion)

@wanting other classes tanking. Warriors and maybe druids would be the only others I would consider. Warriors will have good hp and good damage reduction, but jack for threat due to lack of rage. Druids will have good hp and threat, but no % damage reduction. Warlocks will have decent hp, good damage reduction, great threat, and a free 70 resists. Other classes could tank, but lack the advantages of warriors, druids, and warlocks.

Hit cap as in 16% or hit cap as in like 5%?

(I assume you mean 5%, which I can totally pull off, and I think the other healers in my guild can, too.)

They are level 70 mobs, which I believe have a 4% miss rate. Since you can only get to 99%, you only need to get +3% hit. So you need 38 spell hit rating. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm obviously not a DPS caster.

We tried him for the first time last night (after a very impressive FLK one-shot ) and I was rocking 53 +hit and varying amounts of +dmg between 250 and 400. 250 was cutting it really close, but with 350 or more, I did just fine.

We only got a couple attempts in before we called it for the night, but it was going great. We lost a lot of people after Whirlwinds though... they don't seem to like waiting for our MT to pick him back up w/ Avenger's Shield. >_<

According to Spell hit - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft , you have 96% chance to hit a level 70 mob. You can mitigate that with spell hit gear up to 99% chance to hit.

According to same page, 12.6 spell hit rating is equivalent to 1% to hit, so casters want 37.8 spell hit rating if they want to max out their chances to hit their Inner Demon.

Here's a thought:

With 2.3 out, would a prot pala in FR gear be viable for tanking Leo down to 15%?

We've done it a few times before 2.3 so it is definitely viable. Past 15% is fine too as the pally can clear his own debuffs easily.

Edit: Unsure if you mean solo-tanking Leo in both forms. I don't really know how much tanking power paladins lose going into FR gear.

Sorry for bump but I think this was most appropriate thread.

Hi everybody, I have some questions. I'm the Leo tank for his Demon form, how much HP, spell hit, spell damage should I aim for raid buffed? I could go max stam but I give up alot of damage/hit, I could go max damage but I give up alot of stam/hit, etc. I know I need enough stam to survive good # of stacks but I'm sure there will be a point where my threat suffers too much.

My armory --> The World of Warcraft Armory

That is my armory, I logged out in my tank gear I have right now (not done yet). Some notes:

1.) Not sure whether to put Nethercleft Leg Armor or Runic Spellthread. NLA is better for stam, RST is better for mix of stam/threat. I imagine this choice hinges on other choices.

2.) Not sure on head enchant - either Glyph of Power for threat or Glyph of Fire Warding for FR.

3.) I don't have Phoenix-fire Band yet. I chose the rings I have right now for stam/hit.

4.) I have Belt of Blasting if I have enough stam/FR in rest of gear I am thinking about using that for threat.

5.) The only nice offhand I have for raiding is Orb of the Soul-Eater and that's complete trash for SP spam, so this is best offhand I have.

6.) I dunno what shoulders to use, Voidheart Mantle is good mix of hit/dmg/stam. I don't pvp (Hate it) so don't have any pvp gear besides the bracers which were worth it for raiding.

7.) I have Scryer's Bloodgem on right now for +hit, but could use Violet Badge instead but I think Bloodgem is better, missing SP's or Curse of Doom will probably suck.

Finally does anybody have any idea how much HP raid buffed I will have with the gear on my armory? Note that my armory already has Fort, Blood Pact, and Kings. In a raid I will most likely have Flask of Fort (500 hp), Demonic Embrace for 15% more stam, Fel Stamina for 3% more Health, Spicy Crawdad (30 stam), maybe Commanding Shout for 1080 hp. Not sure what else.

Maybe there is a website where I can plug gear/spec/buffs into it and I get stats? I checked ctprofiles but for the life of me I cannot figure any of it out.

I'm just nervous I've never done it before, if we wipe I don't want it to be my fault.

Using the 4 Piece Epic FR set from Heroic Badges, Normal Raid Buffs, Pally Aura, Flask of Chromaitic Wonder, and Speccing to Soul Link w/ Felguard. I have 375 FR, Using Mainly tier 4 Gear I am Hit capped w/o Shammie support, and Raid Buffed slightly over 1k spell damage.

I don't gear for stam instead spec Soul Link specifically for the fight and will continue to until I hit 15k HP Raid buffed. I'm at 13K right now + add anoth 9k from Felguard. With 9 or more debuffs healing can get pretty spikey and deadly during Phase 3.

Mitigation > +Hit > Spell damage

Dead tank does no tanking and additional hp is easily gained though spec rather then gear.

Missed spells build no threat.

Apply first CoD immediatly when Leo Breaks free, Later ones at 13 seconds left in demon form.

Flip Leo to Phase 3 when no more then 8 seconds are left on your debuffs.

We do Leo following Lurker and I can easily respec and be back in the instance before the second trash pull on the way to Leo.

I then respecc after Leo. Returning for FLK can be trickier and require a mage for a port because my hearthstone can still be on CD.

I'm sorry for bumping this but I wanted to add something that I was looking for previously and couldn't find, so perhaps other people will find it useful.

I took a SS of a Innner Demon.



As you can see, they are level 70, so classes that want to know how much hit is required have that information. You can also see that they are indeed weak to Nature, Holy and Arcane, but resistant to Shadow and Fire.

If you look up that buff on Wowhead you find that it is this: Demonic Alignment - Spells - World of Warcraft

This is useful information, especially for classes like Shadow Priests who have the option of using Shadow spells or leaving Shadowform and spamming Smite (for example).

I don't know about that question but with this information you should be able to make a decision.

My standard raiding spec is affliction .... it's good for the Lady Vashj fight, but unsure for Leo

Outside of the Demo spec for tanking him, I'm looking for a few spec ideas that would work for Vashj and Leo ... primarily a Afflict Spec

I've heard I could do it spec'd as Afflict if my stamand FR was high enough, but I'd like confirmation

I'm not worried about how to spec, just trying to find out if it can be done without the Demo need

While anything is "possible", it would be silly to put extra stress on a fight where you are essentially a tank. How would you think it would be taken if a fury warrior asked if he could put on his tanking set and try to tank any boss?? Surely it "could" be done.... but are you willing to risk the time of the other 24 people in the raid?

Even with high stam and FR gear, you will be taking large burst damage and having the pet soak 20% of it is a huge help. Furthermore, the ability to generate "snap" aggro from affliction really isn't that good. A well timed Curse of Doom and Searing Pain spam are your best tools. Waiting for a DoT to tick is asking for trouble, and a DoT that stays on Leo into the next phase can cause positioning issues or worse.

My guild has been using the established strategy from the start and we killed him in just 3 attempts.

Bottomline: have everyone in the raid throw you 5 gold for the respec'ing... it's cheaper then repair bills!

A non-soul-linked warlock will need 25% more hp to match the health pool of a soul-linked warlock, and up to 70 additional fire resistance. However, they would be easier to focus healing on (as the pet can now be ignored).

If you can manage a substantially larger than average health pool and can make up for the lost fire resistance from not having a Felhunter with Master Demonlogist, then go ahead. But tanking Leotheras is all about capping Fire Resistance, and then maximizing your health pool, which Demonology helps immensely with MD and SL.

I tend to disagree with your last line in the first paragraph. Just because it's one target doesn't make healing "easier". In fact I would agrue that you will now have to deal with greater spike damage. In the demon phase there is almost no other healing needed so I don't believe this is of much benefit.

On your second paragraph, just think about this for a few seconds... ANY tanking lock is going to be in stacked FR gear. This immediately rules out any sort of dramatic difference in relative HP pools. Not to mention that trying to make up 70 FR is not exactly easy to do without gimping your overall gear. At best you might make it up in 3 pieces of gear... but that's 3 pieces that might even be green "of fire protection". This leaves 2-3 pieces of gear that you can adjust, and the difference between your Stam gear and your best raid gear won't be anywhere near high enough.

The fight is very simple with a Demo lock... for the sake of 100 G i can't see why someone just doesn't spec back and forth.

i too have this dilemma, any input would be appreciated

We do this fight after Lurker. Our lock tank heads to stormwind, respecs and returns while we are doing trash. The guild bank fronts the 100g cost of the weekly switch for this service.

After leo, he respecs again while we are clearing fathoms trash.

He wears the heroic badge FR gear (chest, legs, so forth) with pally buff / felpuppy for 365 resist.

He also wears some "of stamina" items. A wand with 25 stam. A belt. A bracer. Miscellaneous small things that add an extra couple K. He uses a shat flask of fortification as well. You should see how much a level 70 "of stamina" ring has on it. =) Fully raid buffed hes around 14-15K health, more with my commanding shout.

Even if you could do it as affliction, your threat isnt going to be as good. Your own DPS is going to be gimped from FR gear (and stamina, if you choose.) This means DPS waiting long periods for the "DPS go" and holding back during demon form as well. In the right spec our lock puts 5-10k threat on it in seconds and the go ahead is given. Its great.

Demon form is our biggest DPS moment, even the rogues and other melees do well on the WWS because the damage they do in demon phases.

You could misdirect to help with that initially, but that is much better spent helping the MT pick up leo again, especially during the split phase when fire totem doesnt always hit the correct target.

Its no big deal for a healer to keep an eye on the pet. During the split phase when debuffs are stacking dangerously high and the clock is ticking, that pet will (alot of the time but not always) save you.

// Something we recently encountered / learned.... If 15% split is gonna be right after a demon phase, stop dps UNTIL the lock tanks existing debuffs wear off... doh