I have 2 questions about Leotheras. My guild got its first look at him tonight, and were surprised at how easy the fight is, given his pre-patch hype.
First, when Leotheras hits 15% he starts going off on some dialogue for a solid 5-10 seconds before splitting into two. Is his human form building threat during this time, as he's still attackable, or does he not start building threat until he stops running off at the mouth and starts moving again? Our biggest problem last night was people pulling aggro at the various transitions (end of whirlwind, end of demon phase, etc.) and I was very cautious about having people lay into him while he was standing their hunched over.
Second, has anyone else noticed any kind of a memory leak in leo's room? Most of our raid last night, after our second clear of his trash, started complaining about their frame rates dipping way down into the single digits, including myself. At one point, however, I died in an unrezzable spot and needed to release and be summoned back. The second I released, my frame rate went back to normal, and was fine for the rest of the night (only about 30 minutes or so). Has anyone else experienced this? It caused some wipes for us as people were unable to move and react in sufficient time.
I have also had horrible fps in that room, especially on the platform. As for the fight itself, it was tuned down a little. If everyone is doing their jobs properly, it shouldn't be the dps race it was pre 2.1.
But this brings me to the reason that we decided to use a warrior over a warlock: after the second demon transition on one attempt he used the Blast Nova on the melee a few times, first to one Rogue (who vanished) then another rogue (who also vanished) and then to various people in melee range who weren't attacking him. I had put in about 50,000 threat and he had only targeted my for a brief instant (he didn't cast anything) and moved on to other people in melee range who had done less than 1,000 units of threat. Could this have just been a bugged attempt or is there some aspect to the Chaos Blast that encourages a warrior tank?
This usually happens when you are out of Chaos Blast range.
Question for raids that just have 1 tank in FR tanking both the humanoid and demon phases:
At 15% when Leo splits into 2, do you have the FR MT pick up the demon and one of the OTs in non-FR gear pick up the humanoid? How much tanking gear would you recommend for that OT? I assume he'd go splat if he tanked humanoid Leo the last 15% in DW Fury gear.
We have a lock ready to pick up the fire blasts at the split. However he died early one attempt and I was able to tank both comfortably for a minute (long enough to down him if everyone is alive), until one of our hunters who was supposed to MD after WW didn't because he was dead. It's not ideal but at least possible if your second FR guy doesn't log or dies early.
I am one of the Prot warriors in the guild. And I am having a severe issue to kill my inner demon.
For the Demon phase:
- 1 warrior MT in full FR gear, I am getting aggro. When I get inner demon I can only spam HS, Whirlwind and that is about it. I am doing this while dual-wielding King's defender (with Mongoose) and Blazeguard.
Is there a way for me to kill it quickly? because I can manage it if my 30m cooldowns are up, but not by spamming normal attacks.
My bad, no I am not tanking, other warrior is. I am dual tanking him in the human phase
If you are prot but not tanking your 2 options are:
1) DW when your gear supports that (have you enough +hit?), stying in berserker stance, applying some sunders than spamming WW and devastate.
2) if you have some +block value gear. swap in some +crit/AP gear and stay 1h+shield in berserker stance. Activating the autoblocker once your demon is sundered is a big dmg plus.
Dont forget demon slaying elixiers, rage pots and having built up 100 rage (dont spend it before the whispers are announced).
And just in case: don't forget recklessness.
My bad, no I am not tanking, other warrior is. I am dual tanking him in the human phase
It's been mentioned before in this thread, but a lot of people seem to be skipping over spell reflect, it's the single most powerful tool in a prot warriors arsenal against the demons (the shadowbolts hit the demons for about 3k).
Another trick which I've found very useful on occasion is to blow your entire rage bar and then (dependant on the stacks you already have) move next to the warlock or warrior who is taking the chaos blasts for a quick hit of rage.
Divine Intervention clears the debuff, we used it before 2.1 when we still used a warlock to tank him in demon form.
But this brings me to the reason that we decided to use a warrior over a warlock: after the second demon transition on one attempt he used the Blast Nova on the melee a few times, first to one Rogue (who vanished) then another rogue (who also vanished) and then to various people in melee range who weren't attacking him. I had put in about 50,000 threat and he had only targeted my for a brief instant (he didn't cast anything) and moved on to other people in melee range who had done less than 1,000 units of threat. Could this have just been a bugged attempt or is there some aspect to the Chaos Blast that encourages a warrior tank?
I think there's an aggro component to the blast itself, adding threat to the target some how every time you take a hit, so if you take blast after blast you will move up the threat list probably faster than a Searing Pain spammer can get it off you. So: If a melee gets aggro first and all the melee take a few AoEs from that, he's going to cycle through them before the warlock can get aggro.
"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell
In regards to WW, has anyone noticed that Leotheras seems to use totems as WW targets? On one of our attempts last night, he kept bouncing back between 6 totems placed together in the room for practically the entire duration of the WW. It could have just be coincidence, though.
In regards to WW, has anyone noticed that Leotheras seems to use totems as WW targets? On one of our attempts last night, he kept bouncing back between 6 totems placed together in the room for practically the entire duration of the WW. It could have just be coincidence, though.
Since the last patch we accidently discovered if you drop a Seering Totem in the center of the room, he will always go for it as he comes out of Whirlwind. It sure makes pickups easier.
Well we downed leo for the first time tonight after suffering 9%, 7%, 6%, 4%, 3% wipes (not in that order). That last 15% just had our number for a while. In any case I wanted to make some comments on his whirl wind since no one has that I have seen. The way we've found to control them is first to have a seering totem which is mentioned in the post above us, but also we have all the warlocks and shadow priests put up all their dot's on the leotheras so when he does whirl wind they are the top people on the aggro list along with the tanks (we use three during the human phase). Then once he starts to whirlwind the all run for the walls.
What we've found is that he targets people somewhat randomly although heavily weighted by threat and begins to run to them. After about half a second he does a range check and if the target isn't close enough to him he switches targets and repeats. So by putting all the high aggro people at max range he stays fairly tight in the middle and the rest are free to dps him fairly safely. The totem pulls him back to the center and then our druid tank picks him up, who is keeping 5 lacerates up on him the whole time. We go through the whole fight with less then 10 people getting whirled(other then tanks) before the 15% mark. Does anyone else use something like this or is it just the simple move bitch get out da way strat from back in the battleguard days of AQ40?
We've been putting in some work on Leotheras lately, and the problem we are running into is Threat Generation during the Demon phase.
We've been using our Normal MT to tank him in Human, and then our OT in FR gear to tank him during demon phase. The OT has no problem gaining initial aggro from the demon, however, he has a hard time maintaining constant threat because he gets little to no rage from multiple resists of the Chaos Blast. This eventually leads to a warlock or mage pulling aggro, and a wipe.
What can be done to help our Warrior keep up a constant threat rotation during the demon phase, or is a Warlock tank just a safer option?
Since the last patch we accidently discovered if you drop a Seering Totem in the center of the room, he will always go for it as he comes out of Whirlwind. It sure makes pickups easier.
Shazzrah did that also. It basically obeys aggro rules though - a big heal at the same time, and he'll go for the healer.
Shazzrah did that also. It basically obeys aggro rules though - a big heal at the same time, and he'll go for the healer.
Yep, always keep a bunch of searings under a mob that has a teleport/aggro-wipe/whatever. Nowhere better illustrated than on Noth back in Naxx. ~4 Searings under him and he would, 99% of the time, run back to the MT and kill a searing totem before taking any other action.
We've been putting in some work on Leotheras lately, and the problem we are running into is Threat Generation during the Demon phase.
We've been using our Normal MT to tank him in Human, and then our OT in FR gear to tank him during demon phase. The OT has no problem gaining initial aggro from the demon, however, he has a hard time maintaining constant threat because he gets little to no rage from multiple resists of the Chaos Blast. This eventually leads to a warlock or mage pulling aggro, and a wipe.
What can be done to help our Warrior keep up a constant threat rotation during the demon phase, or is a Warlock tank just a safer option?
If you've got a warlock with the gear I'd suggest giving that a shot. A well-timed CODoom with Searing Pain spam is huge aggro. Normally there is no one within 10-20k threat in demon phase for us. We didn't get to Leo until after the patch and had read it's possible to use a warrior/druid to tank during demon now. The reason I chose not to is because of the possible aggro issues. Obviously goal is to take as little chaos blasts as possible, which means crap rage.
If warrior is the only option, toss them in melee dps group (lotp/wf/etc) and feed them rage pots. Make sure they're saving a full rage bar before demon phase starts.
We've been putting in some work on Leotheras lately, and the problem we are running into is Threat Generation during the Demon phase.
We've been using our Normal MT to tank him in Human, and then our OT in FR gear to tank him during demon phase. The OT has no problem gaining initial aggro from the demon, however, he has a hard time maintaining constant threat because he gets little to no rage from multiple resists of the Chaos Blast. This eventually leads to a warlock or mage pulling aggro, and a wipe.
What can be done to help our Warrior keep up a constant threat rotation during the demon phase, or is a Warlock tank just a safer option?
Have you tried having your tank put on some +hit and dual wield? Yesterday I wore something like 7.5% hit, 298fr, and had ~16.5k hp buffed. Even without getting hit, I still maintain a healthy TPS.
What can be done to help our Warrior keep up a constant threat rotation during the demon phase, or is a Warlock tank just a safer option?
I'm our FR tank and we just started this fight earlier this week, so we're still refining our strategy a bit. Our transitions were clean after the initial attempt and our dps was faster than needed to avoid the enrage.
A couple pieces of advice I'd give:
1) Make sure you have 100 rage going into the demon form transition.
2) Don't use heroic strike in this fight unless you're above 75 rage and have had a long string of non-resists (non resists means the debuff is stacking pretty high and you'll get a lot of rage when you do get hit).
3) Use Bloodrage (it has a 1 min cooldown) when you get a long strings of resists, that will fuel at least 1 shieldslam
4) Anger Management is a helpful talent to have (it's a small benefit, but some rage is better than none)
5) Windfury and battleshout paired with a high dps, high speed weapon should help quite a bit. I was using a blazeguard at the time, but mallet of the tides would also work.
6) It's expensive, but the Autoblocker adds 260 block for about 3 slams, which helps establish a higher threat ceiling early. Since you need to do at least 10% more threat than the tank to pull aggro, getting a really high threat ceiling set up early is important.
A warlock is probably more consistent threat regardless of gear, but if your tanks have pretty good gear they should do just fine too.
Yep, always keep a bunch of searings under a mob that has a teleport/aggro-wipe/whatever. Nowhere better illustrated than on Noth back in Naxx. ~4 Searings under him and he would, 99% of the time, run back to the MT and kill a searing totem before taking any other action.
Just an aside here and maybe discussed in the past. Is it possible threat wipes (Noth/Shazz Blink, Leo WW fade, etc) aren't applied to the totems? Obviously hard and not really worth testing, but it's much more fun knowing why most of us have seen the "99% of the time" ordeal.
Makes you wonder why Twin Emps were ever bugged, with respect to totems.
06/03/07, 2:31 AM
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