Do most guilds put DPS on the bats or just leave them alone completely.
We went into Phase 3 with 25 up and 3 nagas (one at 15%) up, we burned down the nagas as fast as possible and went onto Vashj, we wiped at 11% enrage and I felt we lost a lot of damage due to the melee and the rest of the raid having to move around so frequently.
On our most recent kill, we left the bats alone and let me tell you that is a BAD idea. When left alone, they do a massive toxic spore spit in the middle of room that covered up the entire inner circle where you tank Vashj. As long as you kill enough bats to not let that happen then you should be ok.
On our most recent kill, we left the bats alone and let me tell you that is a BAD idea. When left alone, they do a massive toxic spore spit in the middle of room that covered up the entire inner circle where you tank Vashj. As long as you kill enough bats to not let that happen then you should be ok.
For my guild, we found out that tanking Vashj in the middle is probably the worst thing you can do for stage 3. Tank her on the outer ring and move her around whenever poison lands on the melee, and when the soft enrage hits, just don't stop moving her, easy mode phase 3.
For my guild, we found out that tanking Vashj in the middle is probably the worst thing you can do for stage 3. Tank her on the outer ring and move her around whenever poison lands on the melee, and when the soft enrage hits, just don't stop moving her, easy mode phase 3.
How exactly can you keep her still, is it possible? From most videos I've seen, in p1/p3 she doesn't move at all, just taunt when tanks get stunned? We have freedom up at all times.
How exactly can you keep her still, is it possible? From most videos I've seen, in p1/p3 she doesn't move at all, just taunt when tanks get stunned? We have freedom up at all times.
Grounding totem in the tank group.
[04:04:29] <Malan> Kaubel just laid the smack down in the the blizzcon thread
[04:05:07] <Kaubel> fucking idiots. i need to go on a banning rampage and put things right once and for all.
[04:05:20] <Kaubel> our forums are infested with pussy.
This helps a lot to deal with shock blast, but she still tends to shift around a decent bit in p1. In phase 3 this is substantially more helpful as she tends not to move as much, and this reduces it further
While killing bats in p3 is certainly a viable option i dont see the need to do this. Since the whole fight is all about p2 and if you are succesfoul at it and have all 25 plp up there is no way you can wipe to toxic clouds, we never bothered to even look at the bats and each time we had a correct execution of p2 we killed her in p3 without problems. But thats just us, its a possibility some players find it difficult to stay alive in p3 and avoid clouds, yet if they do what are they doign killing vashj? buying loot or what
While killing bats in p3 is certainly a viable option i dont see the need to do this. Since the whole fight is all about p2 and if you are succesfoul at it and have all 25 plp up there is no way you can wipe to toxic clouds, we never bothered to even look at the bats and each time we had a correct execution of p2 we killed her in p3 without problems. But thats just us, its a possibility some players find it difficult to stay alive in p3 and avoid clouds, yet if they do what are they doign killing vashj? buying loot or what
Is DPS gained by having all your hunters on Vashj greater than DPS lost by having people forced to move more often? (Since almost all classes lose at least some DPS time when forced to move without warning.)
Not really in my opinion, if the tank gets Static Charge you still want an offtank taunting her of the MT, so the melee can continue DPSing.
[04:04:29] <Malan> Kaubel just laid the smack down in the the blizzcon thread
[04:05:07] <Kaubel> fucking idiots. i need to go on a banning rampage and put things right once and for all.
[04:05:20] <Kaubel> our forums are infested with pussy.
If that's true, I'd still say it's not worth the risk of trying to stay at max melee range from the tank in phase 3 when there's so much else going on. You want at least 2 tanks for phase 2 anyway.
How exactly can you keep her still, is it possible? From most videos I've seen, in p1/p3 she doesn't move at all, just taunt when tanks get stunned? We have freedom up at all times.
Well when tanking her in the center, you get a nice clump of melee all in one spot, and end up over loading poison spots in there. With her on the outer ring, the poison is predictable as to where it will be, and since all the other casters as using a nice chuck of the rest of the platform, the poison is never a problem during stage 3.
In all effects of the stun, grounding totem is killer on it, plus Vashj will just move away from the mt to bow him, the melee can still dps her.
With that, the whole raid just pivots around the center so that no poison bolt ever stacks in a spot to where people will be moving to.
I just have to reinforce what was said previously about ranged DPS being optimal on elemental killing. We spent the first two days of Vashj attempts with melee on the elementals, being helped by hunters, and the rest of the ranged DPS taking care of striders and naga. We found that we needed 7 dps on the steps evenly spread out to take care of all the elementals while being able to get to tainted spawns fast enough. While it was certainly possible to get through phase 2 with this setup, it was rather volatile and not sustainable, as DPS was slowly getting behind the whole time.
On our kill last night, we used 5 DPS on the steps, 3 BM hunters and 2 affliction warlocks. These two specs are optimal for killing elementals in my opinion; warlocks can just put up a set of DoTs within 5 seconds and leave the elemental to die, while hunters can use their pets very effectively. Our 3 melee DPS stayed on the naga the whole time, while the mages, shadow priests, and the remaining warlocks killed striders and helped on naga when no strider was up. We used another affliction warlock with CoEx and a frost mage to kite; they would stand at opposite sides of the room to pick up strider spawns faster. With this setup, DPS was clearly more efficient. We were killing striders and naga almost before the next one would spawn, effectively making phase 2 sustainable. Granted this approach does not favor melee dps that much, but what encounter does? -_-
Granted this approach does not favor melee dps that much, but what encounter does? -_-
What? How can melee DPS standing still DPSing a single target be worse than melee running around platforms DPSing mobs with low HP? Putting them on Naga allows them to get totems more effectively and allows the debuffs that help the melee to stay on the mob.
What? How can melee DPS standing still DPSing a single target be worse than melee running around platforms DPSing mobs with low HP? Putting them on Naga allows them to get totems more effectively and allows the debuffs that help the melee to stay on the mob.
I think you misunderstood me, I'm speaking in terms of numbers of melee as opposed to individual output. Obviously putting melee on the naga enhances their DPS by a lot. However, if you're using ranged DPS on elementals, you still need a good chunk of ranged DPS to kill the striders before the next one spawns. One you're reached that DPS requirement, you can fill in the rest with melee. Now this number will differ from guild to guild, but from my own experience, I would not want more than 4 melee in the raid; any more would strain DPS on the striders too much, and the naga would probably die so quickly that melee would be sitting around doing nothing for a bit. Of course this would change as gear and experience increases, but I think you get my point.
I think you misunderstood me, I'm speaking in terms of numbers of melee as opposed to individual output. Obviously putting melee on the naga enhances their DPS by a lot. However, if you're using ranged DPS on elementals, you still need a good chunk of ranged DPS to kill the striders before the next one spawns. One you're reached that DPS requirement, you can fill in the rest with melee. Now this number will differ from guild to guild, but from my own experience, I would not want more than 4 melee in the raid; any more would strain DPS on the striders too much, and the naga would probably die so quickly that melee would be sitting around doing nothing for a bit. Of course this would change as gear and experience increases, but I think you get my point.
Exactly my thoughts to our raid leader the other day. Having a melee group of four on the naga could easily be overkill, but, you could assign each one a specific area to help with spawns once the naga is dead until the next one is tanked.
We had 5 rogues during our first vashj kill and yeah, it sucked. Killed her this week with 3 only and it was way easier (well, people were more experienced with the fight too I suppose). 2 warlocks + 2 hunters are enough to handle almost all elementals, they only let a few of them pass when the tainted elemental is up, and those can easily be killed by ranged dps who are on strider duty.
Anyways, I think every raid setup can work for this version of Lady Vashj, you just need to find the good way to optimize your dps lineup, whichever it is. Obviously, a balanced lineup is more or less the best one for vashj, which sounds good design to me.
I still think vashj has been nerfed too much though, in my opinion leotheras 2.1 is harder than vashj 2.1 and that's a bit sad.
We had 5 rogues during our first vashj kill and yeah, it sucked. Killed her this week with 3 only and it was way easier (well, people were more experienced with the fight too I suppose). 2 warlocks + 2 hunters are enough to handle almost all elementals, they only let a few of them pass when the tainted elemental is up, and those can easily be killed by ranged dps who are on strider duty.
Anyways, I think every raid setup can work for this version of Lady Vashj, you just need to find the good way to optimize your dps lineup, whichever it is. Obviously, a balanced lineup is more or less the best one for vashj, which sounds good design to me.
I still think vashj has been nerfed too much though, in my opinion leotheras 2.1 is harder than vashj 2.1 and that's a bit sad.
2.1 Leo? Uh I don't think so. Leo 2.0 was a joke and overhyped, 2.1 is just free loot.
Well I suppose everyone has a different feeling about every mob. In my opinion, many things can go wrong on leotheras, much more than on vashj. The only challenging part of Lady Vashj is to find how to place your different dps classes during phase 2 to kill everything on time. However, we still regularly wipe on Leotheras because the warlock tank gets 3 dd in a row, because our tanks let him ffa after a whirlwind, because ww hits too many people... I suppose we're just bad on Leotheras for some reason (and we killed him like 3 months ago).
Our Warlock usually sits out far enough away before a tanking phase needs to come up. Conservative play helps when you don't have to push too hard, especially post patch (even pre patch flasks were not required - though we killed him after getting fairly geared on bosses before).
Edit: On topic, we actually downed her tonight. Delegating people to the right spots made a big difference.
How we did it:
Elementals - Hunter, Feral, Hunter, Feral, Mage, Rogue.
3 Naga Tanks and Naga DPS - Warrior x 3, Rogue x 2.
Raid Healers - Priest, Paladin x 3, Shaman (Only one active healer shaman sucks. Chain Heal is amazing), Druid x 2.
Strider Slayers - Warlock x 3, Mage x 2, Shadow Priests (helped out on these and Nagas due to threat).
It's quite funny really - after reading this thread we re-evaluated the strat we killed her with last week, and ended up shifting the raid around so we had 2 aff-locks and 2 hunters on the elementals, melee on nagas and the rest of the ranged on striders.
And we failed.
Well, we only gave it one attempt, but confusion ensued horribly, people were shouting at each other for doing the wrong things on vent, and generally it was very weird.
Then we went back to melee on the stairs killing elementals, ranged on nagas -> striders -> nagas ->etc. and one-shot her, ending up with 1 naga on full and one on 20% when p2 finished, and about 1 minute 20 left before enrage (with 2 hunters on bats, one died @ 20%ish).
I suppose people just don't like change (or more likely, half our raid was afk while we were trying to reassign people to doing different things and thats why everything went screwy).
06/02/07, 3:57 PM
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