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Old 06/17/07, 2:14 AM   #241
Lithose
Don Flamenco
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Llane
Originally Posted by Bokchoy View Post
The fact that a Priest can do everything is huge, and I think you are underestimating it. Also, you're ignoring the things that Priests can do that no other healer can do. PW:S, group healing (chain heal is raid healing, not group healing), get Innervated for 14,000 man, etc... Don't underestimate Prayer of Mending. It doesn't give you credit on the healing meters, so it's hard to quantify how powerful it is, especially on fights where, no matter where the PoM jumps to, he is guaranteed to take damage within the next few seconds.

We used to run only 1 Holy Priest, but out of attunement and attendance issues, I've respecced from Shadow to Holy, and despite not having stacking non-healing benefits, the versatility from the 2nd Holy Priests really seem to shine in BT. The more I raid in BT, the more I believe that two Holy Priests is optimal, even at the expense of one of the other healing classes.
Oh, I don't..Again, I think priests are great healers, in fact, we too, run with two priests. The fact is though, that on most fights, I can interchange them, or sub in other classes, I can't do that, with, lets say, a paladin..(I could, but it would be many times more difficult then with the priest, for obvious reasons.)

BT may be different, I would have to defer to you on that.

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Old 06/17/07, 3:27 AM   #242
Linnet
Piston Honda
 
Undead Warrior
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Originally Posted by Lithose View Post
Healing can be compensated for by other classes (right now), buffs can't, anyone with the choice, is going to allow for slightly more difficult healing (On a few fights), and take the huge boost in overall raid efficiency. This is the essence of stacking, this is the problem.
Yup.

Now the main thing is that being able to sub other classes in for healing is by design. Blizzard explicitly want that to be an option. They've given no indication that they see balance issues there so there are no plans to change it.

For holy priests, who were used to their main unique advantage being superior healing, this means that they now basically don't have a unique irreplaceable advantage and will probably never have one again (barring the spirit buff). Shadow priests, ofc, do, plus they can bring any priest-baseline type specific abilities.

Is this a problem? Well no, there are still spot/s for holy priests in raids. Is it an issue ... well, you have to decide if you want to stick it out knowing that nothing will change, respec, reroll, or quit. If you are a really keen healer then respeccing will reduce the amount of fun you have in raids, because shadow in raids is pretty dull in comparison.

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Old 06/19/07, 5:28 AM   #243
Mags
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
Aman'Thul
The basic argument here seems to be that given comparable healing abilities, the buffs of the paladin are preferable to those of the priest.

Priests potentially have 3 buffs they can cast: Fortitude, Spirit and Shadow Protection. Paladins have 5 or 6. The big difference? Each paladin can only cast 1 blessing per player. No problem in a 40 person raid, where a "balanced" raid would probably have 5 paladins. But in the expansion, the number of available raid slots has shrunk but the blessing system remains the same.

The simplest solution to the raid balancing issue would be to allow paladins to cast two different blessing on any given player. Then even the most diligent min/maxing guilds could get all the buffs they wanted from two or three paladins, and could choose the rest of the healing rotation based on other criteria.

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Old 06/19/07, 5:43 AM   #244
Ghorthor
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Zirkel des Cenarius (EU)
Originally Posted by Mags View Post
The simplest solution to the raid balancing issue would be to allow paladins to cast two different blessing on any given player. Then even the most diligent min/maxing guilds could get all the buffs they wanted from two or three paladins, and could choose the rest of the healing rotation based on other criteria.
Horrible idea and this topic kinda runs into a wrong direction.

The problem isn't buff stacking or priests lacking paladin-like buffs. The core of the problem is, that healing classes in general lack the synergy of DPS classes. That's why we now focus on the buff arguments but this is wrong. Healing needs DPS like synergy, so you do not have to focus on buffstacking. If your priest-paladin combo puts out more effective healing than paladin-paladin you will not only focus on wich combo brings more buffs.

Retribution now has an aura that buffs DPS, why isn't there such a counterpart for healing, wich would penalty a second paladin over a second priest, if we look at more than the usual micro bonuses, cause the original +3% healing aura for healing recieved rather than healing done, was useless.

There are solutions to penalty paladin stacking and make priest more effective, besides the usual focus on wich buffs a single player can push out. But to be realistic i do not think we will see healing synergy any time soon, when you have developers argument with one classes nerfs as buffs for others, hence the dev-chat concerning the illumination nerf.

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Old 06/19/07, 3:41 PM   #245
Hyl
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Priest
 
Argent Dawn
Post removed

Last edited by Hyl : 10/10/07 at 3:15 PM.

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Old 06/20/07, 11:09 AM   #246
Aditu
Bald Bull
 
Aditu's Avatar
 
Nyxnissa
Blood Elf Paladin
 
<Div>
No WoW Account
I don't want to be a troll but weren't most priests upset about only being allowed to heal before TBC? You have two very viable trees while paladins really essentially have one as do shamans. That can't be ALL bad? =)

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Old 06/20/07, 11:48 AM   #247
Zarick
Glass Joe
 
Human Warrior
 
Kilrogg
Originally Posted by Aditu View Post
I don't want to be a troll but weren't most priests upset about only being allowed to heal before TBC? You have two very viable trees while paladins really essentially have one as do shamans. That can't be ALL bad? =)
I think most complaints come from priests who did want to heal and that's all they wanted to do. There are also lots of priests who are happy they have a great excuse to go shadow now.

If you're in the former category, I'm guessing you don't care about how many talent trees are viable as much as you care that your old role has been diminished.

I've had fun going shadow with my priest but I can see where the dedicated healers aren't as happy anymore. It's always tough when class roles and strengths change after you made a decision on what you wanted to do.

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Old 06/20/07, 2:17 PM   #248
Phantasmal
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Vashj
The best thing to do for raid healing/support balance would be to put a group mana regen buff comparable to Vampiric Touch somewhere in the Holy or Disc trees. Most guilds seem to run somewhere between 2 1/2 to 3 mana groups, and I know my old guild certainly tried to have three shadow priests as often as possible. If mana regen weren't exclusive to Shadow you could balance your priest make-up on the basis of your guild population, and having the option to stack holy priests would allow for more off-specs from the other healing classes. There would still be a point to bringing Shadow Priests given Misery and Shadow Weaving; you just wouldn't see more of them than the entire priest "allotment" of 25/9.

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