@Gurg: Yeah, I've figured as much, but keeping that up while having the 'gaze guy' tripping through. Is there any mechanic that makes him unable to gaze other tanks?

@Sebudai: Yeah, we knew as much, but sometimes Capernian just charged into -30 yards and used Conflag on our tank. We solved it by using a Warlock instead of a Moonkin(The moonkin DID get 70% of all Conflags). Now it feels like the normal 4% chance to get conflagerated.

Nope, gaze on add tanks makes it a lot more interesting at times.
Your best bet is to kite the gazer away from the add tanks. If he does go for an add tank, he will hopefully choose a new target before reaching him then.

I've got to ask, but it seems we are doing something wrong on the trash to Kael. We wipe numerous times to do the Battle Mage and Centerion. It seems that we are missing anything. Figured this would be an appropriate thread.

Centurions have the arcane whirlwind thingy that ticks for 9k, best way is to deathcoil/fear/sheep them when they start. The Battle Mages can nuke for a ton, just be sure your tanks are topped up as much as possible and have enough hp to survive it.

We just kite the battlemages around, the nuke has a 5 yd range.

Yeah, it's basically just Frostbrand Weapon on crack: http://www.thottbot.com/s39087

They can be snared, and are easily kiteable. When they stop to Blizzard, just move out of the Blizzard. Don't interrupt it -- that's a bunch of time when they're harmless. They die fairly quickly with focused ranged DPS.

As I said on the WoW Forums when I heard about this, I guess "kite him to Al'ar's room" is the new "kite him to Vael's room"?

For Kael trash, we just keep constantly sheep/fearing the adds while killing them, effectively cutting off any blizzards or whirlwinds just as they start. It's messy, but it does get the job down with minimal casualties.

We fear/kite battle-mages since the tank killer is a proc.
The centurions can be melee'd at max range without getting hit by the flurry. Even the slightest movement will put you back in range of it though, unless you are a cow with 9yd melee range.

Our biggest problem is the adds stage 4/5. I assume you just kill them with ranged when no barrier is up, then don't touch them at all when it is (so it won't die sooner and be an egg when barrier is still up). Just curious what classes you all use to kite, we're trying a feral druid.

Oh, and with the astromancer, she really loves to cast a fireball with conflag. She did it to me three times in one attempt, and my threat was 1/5th of some of our ranged dps (even less than the pallies near me).

We've used a hunter and an elemental shaman to kite phoenixes, and both work fine.

They've also nerfed the hell out of Shock Barrier. We used to just ignore it and alternate Seed/Pot on pyros to soak the second one, so we never bothered coordinating DPS and just killed eggs whenever they were up, even if it was mid-pyro.

This week we had a phoenix die right as Pyro started, and all the ranged DPS burned the egg down. The remaining melee on Kael still broke the barrier before the second pyro went off, without even trying to. So yeah, you have a lot of margin for error there.

I dislike the random bad things that can happen in p4 due to mind control in conjunction with other abilities, so try to get through it as quickly as possible. By ignoring phoenixes completely except when an egg is up and just burning the hell out of him, you accomplish that. This week Kael was at 57% when he began his second pyro, and went into p5 shortly thereafter.

So thats roughly 2.5 minute phase 4? Seems like that could really make the fight easier!

I have a question that I couldn't get a straight answer out of from my raid last night. If say a priest grabs the staff and uses the aura click, can they swap the staff out for the mace again and have their group keep the staff aura or will it go away? I'm trying to figure out how to best make the groups and this is one of the major questions left on my mind!

Fairly certain once you unequip the staff you lose the aura you provide. I think I tested that last night.

Edit: And I'm fairly certain that the aura effects anyone in 30 yards, not just your group.

Ahh ok, nevermind then

The only random thing imo in phase 4 is the MC in conjunction with the flamestrike. You have to be careful not to dispel people near birds or flamestrikes. But other than that, I don't see any part of phase 4 that isn't sustainable indefinitely. I'm not really seeing the "random" issue here so much - we've done as many as 6 pyro's before. Honestly, the fight is over once thaladred dies in phase 3... so beyond that its really not a big deal.

Praetorian,

I believe you said that EJ had more success once you started burning Telonicus first with all ranged DPS in p3 (along with melee) then having non-hunter ranged move onto Thaladred. Once question I have is where do you drop Thaladred in p3. I think our problem is that too many folks are failing the "retard" check here, but I am really getting sick of losing people on p3 since with all this practice our p2 is flawless now and we have all weapons (including shield) dead as the adds are popping. We have tried killing him near the entrance of the room and we are then having problems b/c we cannot seem to get him close enough to Kael to not have issues with tanks being gazed (we tank Sanguianar along the back wall) and now we are trying it with him dieing behind kael to give more warning and keep him in the area of the room we want.

You may be tempted to say our dps is too low, but I think it is more a problem of our dps is not being applied efficiently, because we never had any of the problems with any of the DPS races pre-2.10 (i.e., Hydross, Leo) and we are only bringing 6 healers. I am getting near my last summer C'Thun levels of frustration with people on Thaladred. Anyway, sorry for the rambling post, but just curious where you drop Thaladred so that he doesnt gib people while you are dpsing Telonicus.

On the PTR shock barrier absorbs 80k damage.
Here the thotbott link: http://www.thotbott.com/test/s36815
Guess its already active on live then.

Our positioning:

Thaladred dies in p1 in the west nook or as close as possible.
Sanguinar dies in the east nook.
Capernian dies at the far south.
Telonicus dies basically at the center of the dais, practically on top of Kael.

When Thaladred first pops up, by definition he'll be far from everyone, and everyone can keep running him back towards the west nook where possible.

On our last Kael kill, Telonicus died precisely 1min into phase 3:
http://www.lossendil.com/wws/?report...v3&s=0-663&a=6

At that point, you now have like 85% of the room to use to kite Thaladred, and he completely stops being a problem from that point onward. Ranged get on him, melee on Sanguinar, and everything is smooth from there.

Our logic in this order is that melee pretty much can't efficiently DPS Thaladred, so he's going to take a bit longer than the others to kill. If you put melee on Telonicus or Sanguinar and have ranged on Thaladred right from the start, then it'll still take like 1.5min+ to kill Thaladred, and you have all 4 adds up and fewer "safe" spots in the room for all that time. Higher chance of a mishap, and more distractions. If everyone focuses on Telonicus first (easy since we tank him on the dais and we're all right there), with the +25% bow debuff and +25% dagger debuff, he just melts.

The only times we've really had problems in p3 doing it this way have been due to some horrible luck right off the bat (like Thaladred gazing another add's offtank twice in a row right away).

For reference, last kill we had only the axe left (50%) when p2 finished. We do minor potting. I don't think anyone was flasked besides tanks/capernian tank (which pot to keep up the threat due to fr gear).

north: Telonicus
south: Capernian (to be clear, that is in between the 2 doors, in case that isn't actually north on the map)
west: Thaladred
east: Sanguinar

If I recall properly, only Capernian was left, with low hp, when p4 started.

EDIT: beaten.

Thank you for the helpful response. When you say "West Nook" and "East Nook" do you mean the nooks to the west and east of Kael's dias? or do you mean kind of mid-room (from a North to South perspective) the sides of the room?

Mid-room. Like where the two trash packs are that you clear from the sides.

One thing that also really helps during Phase 3 is having the gaze target kite it in a smart pattern where ranged dps doesn't have to go chasing him around. We use the West side of the room mainly if we can since the engineer (we tank him pretty much where Thaladrad is originally) dies so fast. The whole west half of the room is usable for kiting unless he gazes a Melee on Sanguinar or the Lock and myself on the Astromancer.

Minimizing running around really made our early attempts look poor in comparison to our kill last night. Everything was dead with 15 seconds to spare before the first Pyroblast compared to having me and the lock whittle down the Astromancer's last 20%.

Also, Elemental Shaman DPS is pretty nice... Had our main Resto Shaman spec elemental for the fight since healing is a non issue with Kael (and Vashj) and DPS just makes everything a whole lot easier. 6 Healers... It sucks having to sit our usual raid healers (Priests and Druids).