Funny, he isn't really standing back to the wall... hm. Is it also race dependend ? Lots of people get Fel Rage + Heroism but it only happend to him.

For our second day in BT ever bringing him twice to the 34% and several more times to 50% isn't that bad. But it certainly is bloody hard. We have 8 healers, but I'm quite certain we'll go 9 next time

EDIT: To clarify, we tank him at this position:


That is "the bugged waterfall" then? If we simply mirror the position, it should not happen, right?

We used the waterfall as the MT-spot for our first two tries today and I can only advise against it:
During the first try one of our tanks was knocked out of Line-of-Sight and died without healing whereas later on, in the middle of the next attempt he was knocked through the waterfall and out of the Black Temple.

The best spot for tanking him turned out to be the ramp at half height (pretty much where your Quest-indicator is in your screenshot) - make sure your MT has his back against a wall for obvious reasons. The ditch to the far left in your picture makes for a great Bloodbloil range-indicator, too.

As for Fel Rage suddenly disappearing after a player gets debuffed, I've observed this once on a Shadowpriest of us. The combatlog showed the Fel Rage gain but no sign of it fading or getting removed. I'm still puzzled about this, a bug would be the only reasonable explanation. (he actually stood well away from any wall or obstacle, although the theory about the game removing model-scaling buffs sounds reasonable to me)

We took him in our 5th attempt ever. Used a couple of attempts getting used to Bloodboil+fel rage, having healers getting used to the fight(we used 8 iirc). Then the next 2 attempts just didnt work out because we couldnt get the tank switches to work out. Basicly i as the MT couldnt lose him until i had to many debuffs to heal trough. So we decided to go with 2 tanks instead of 3 since we had an easier time keeping rage generation high when the dmg was split between 2 targets. 9 mins later=dead boss

Ours just hold off dps'ing entirely for the first 15-20 seconds of each first phase and then crank up both VE and VT when they're needed when the Bloodboil kicks in. Neither of the groups that they're in need an enormous amount of healing once they get going.

As much as I'd like to think that there isn't too much luck in that fight, after a very frustrating nights of wipes, sometimes I'm feeling the luck factor plays an important role (maybe too important??) in that fight.

We've been doing some progress, but on good attempts, a bad dice throw has wiped us many times. On our best attempt we've had one of our priest get the Fel Rage and he died. When we recapped it we realized he got over 32k of damage in less than 0.5 seconds (is this intended??) -- plus he had the mortal strike-like debuff.

This fight seems to be less forgiving than Teron is. I kind of wish we had the chance to try Bloodboil before he was buffed, it probably would've been easier for us to kill him after his buff. If he didn't do that damned debuff (the -50% healing one), it'd still be difficult, but a little more manageable. I'm not saying it's impossible to heal through, but what's the point of this debuff? We're just healing like mad our biggest heals and the health bar keeps dropping...

The thing is that it's ok to lose people as long as everyone else can pick up the slack. We've had plenty of kills with 3-5 people who died from attrition, and a couple kills where half the raid was dead due to a badly timed death/cleave combo with 10% of his health remaining. As long as you can get through MOST situations with no deaths it becomes very repeatable. Hell if you lost the fel-raged target every time you could still do it probably as long as no one else died. You'd just need the rest of the raid picking up the slack.

Doesn't really matter that much, normally melee have to somewhat hold back in P1 anyway and in P2 it doesnt matter where they are.

I'm sure its been mentioned in this thread, but just so those too lazy to go through the entire thread want to know, you can have people eat a couple more bloodboils and BoP them to remove it. Easy to replace a whole rotation doing that, though I recommend it only if people are dying left and right =P

When we were first learning this fight, one of our problems was the Fel rage cancel too. The culprit is usually someone standing too close to one of the walls (having a ceiling above their heads) so just make sure the last bloodboil group stays away from the wall (we tank ours halfway up the ramp too, and have our final BB group run all the way to the bottom of the ramp towards the waterfall).

Sounds good ;P

We've put a night or two into Gurtogg and something very strange we noticed was that sometimes he would do 4 rounds of bloodboil in stage one and sometimes 5.

Unless i'm mistaken, the general raiding consensus is that he should always do 5 bloodboils before going into Fel Rage (one every 10 seconds over 60 seconds), is a variable number of bloodboils per stage something we should be preparing for or should we operate under the assumption that he was just bugged and it shouldn't happen again?

Additionally he would always turn around and cast his poison breath attack on a random melee (rogue, even hunter pet) that would be nowhere close to the two tanks on threat.

Maybe i'm missing something but our experiences with him seem so completely out of line with any video or strat i've read up on this guy. Anyone able to give any input?

We had the same issue with this ability. After it targeted a WF totem we assumed he would target anything on his aggro table inside an X yard range and then use this as his primary AE target. Didn't think much of it though as the majority of people can simply move out of the way and take zero damage.

I've always seen 5 personally, but it seems like you should be able to plan for 5 without creating any downsides for yourself.

His Fel Rage timer is on a 'soft' cooldown, as I like to think of it. He can cast it over a fairly wide period of time, doesn't always use it instantly. It's actually only on a 50 second cooldown, so if he uses it as soon as it's up, he will sometimes skip the 5th Bloodboil. I would say he does so maybe 25% of the time. I notice it quite a bit because we always put our warlocks in the second bloodboil group (1 / 2 / 3 / 1 / 2) in order to minimize the amount of healers occupied with Bloodboils when the Felrage comes. You should of course PLAN for 5, though, it's just a little bonus when he skips one.

The acid breath is RSTS, not agro based.

Yesterday was our first night of attempts on Gurtogg and we gave him one trash clear worth of attempts. We also noticed that he wasn't casting the 5th bloodboil and this happened on several occasions for us. I guess it could be considered a good thing because you don't have that last bloodboil to heal but it made it very unpredictable as to when he is going to fel rage someone.

For example the raid was pretty stacked up during the blood boil rotation phase as we wanted to ensure the soaker groups were always furthest from the rest of the raid. The plan was to spread 5 yards away from each other as soon as the 5th bloodboil is cast to avoid getting splashed from the geyser. This adds an unnecessary element to the fight of ensuring that the raid is spread out after the 4th bloodboil yet the 5th soaker group is still the furthest away.

It's probably not as bad as I make it out to be, it just got annoying when he would decide to geyser early catching people off guard and hitting half the raid because we were still stacked up waiting for the 5th bloodboil.

Just a reminder that we are fairly inexperienced with the fight, that is just what I got out of it from our first bit of attempts.

10yds. Have your ranged stand beyond this range, so they can't be targeted for the ability and melee don't have to dodge that direction (instead use it as a safety direction when not the target of the breath). For the same reason, we don't allow pets during Phase 1, and totems are dropped in the "breath zone," where those targeted move.

For practice(hes dead now a couple of times) use we had most melee sit out and came with 3 tanks, 9 healers, 3 melee, 4 mages, 3 locks setup, 2 spriest, 1 hunters.
I gotta say we had a LOT of complaints from our melee(which usually get 5-6) spots for only getting rogue/enhance/fury in at BB - the kill on the 2nd try of the night clearly justified means though.

MT Group with 3 tanks, a BM hunter and a lock.
Melee group with shaman + another healer.
4 Mages + spriest
2 locks + shaman + holy priest + paladin
4 healers + shadow priest
For the, thought we´d stay longer, learning purposes we had 4 iceblock mages and a warlock with Shadow Embrace.

Now what we did - and what was really easy to pull off was the soaking rotation
G3 - G4 - G5 - G3 - (G4)
G4 had the hunter and the warlock from group1 - thus 2 healers not getting it at all.
Also, frostmages stayed in when it was BB #4 and #5 with only a warlock swapping out.
That way we simply iceblocked 8 BBs away before the enrage.
Wait for the CD of iceblock, reapeat, hit coldsnap - do it a 3rd time.
(14x570 + 24x570) x4 x3 = 260.000 damage you don't need to heal.
Rule #1: Frostmages have to be quick
Rule #2: Check the times BB is cast - if he does the first one really late you won't see a 5th.

Hope that helps - since it did for us.

Do you have much issues with keeping your clothies up during fel rage? We've had some moments where we managed to, but it's pretty tight with mages most of the time.

We had troubles with 8 healers and no frost mages yes.
But with 9 it has gotten really easy to do so.
I´d really advise grabbing a warlock with Shadow Embrace + eventually Improved CoW(unless some of you druids/warriors are talented) if you wanna practice a night on him - 5% + CoW is a lot of damage gone. If you have big troubles healing clothies, remember Thunderclap and Hunters Scorpid Sting.

Blizzard (in their infinite wisdom) made it so that demoralizing roar (i.e. the druid version) is less powerful than either CoW or the warrior one by default. Couple this with the druid talent being awful in comparison to the other options, and I doubt you'll find many (if any) druids in top raiding guilds with it.

Keeping up debuffs is very important, especially during fel rage. Shadow embrace also works on the bloodboil ticks (or at least it did - not sure if it's been changed recently) so is a very handy talent to have if you're having trouble raid healing.

Stacking shadowpriests is another easy way to get around a lot of raid healing, but they need to be careful on threat.

Thanks a lot for the good informations!
Unfortunatly we're really poor on shadow priest -- we have only 2 and one of them is missing. We had the other one for our learning attempts, but he's not going to be there this week, so it makes it a little problematic.

I don't know if our warriors use thunderclap and our hunters use scorpid sting -- I assume they do, but you never know... we weren't using amplify magic up until earlier attempts. Have to check out with them!

If you bring more than 1 feral simply have one of them pop healing gear to top you off to 9 healers.
2 Druids can look after all the BB healing for us, having a 3rd (the feral) helping made it alot easier.

Thanks to someones comment in this thread, we made the SP's wait untill the 2nd BB happens to start DPS as normal, it seemed to help, normally we just make them run on a low DPS cycle for all of P1.

We had 2 Priests, 1 Mage(Twice), and 1 Loc get Fel Rage when we killed him this week, without much complications.

I'ld advise trying to get your 2/5th BB taking group to be as self-sufficient as possible, with no healers in it (aka all your locs), it relieves alot of stress from the healing if they can generally look after themselves while you re-position yourselves for P2 and focusing on other things (they are not all in the same group).

Scorpid Sting is great but will generally need a SP for your hunter I think (unless you want to lower his damage a fair bit)

Huh? Since when did you want to avoid melee on BB. Shit we stack them as they obliterate damage meters and are much better to get fel rage. We had a rogue get fel rage 2x in a row and ended the 7 minute fight at over 2900 DPS.

Sure you need 15 soakers. DPS warriors, enhance shammies make GREAT soakers since they have threat issues in P1 and would otherwise have to hold back anyway. Not to mention they have higher hitpoint pools than mages/priests/etc.

Side note. Anyone ever have a feral druid or dps warrior get fel rage? I am thinking it can't target those 2 classes because in 4 kills and many wipes before our first kill its never happened to us.