Disclaimer: I did a search, but did not find any topics that specifically referenced what I wanted to discuss, but if I am mistaken please delete.

I have been the guild leader of an 'average' raiding guild for approximately 2 years and a member since open beta. We never strived to achieve server firsts but just to maintain a decent pace and make a stab at seeing some of the high end content. We managed to clear MC, BWL, AQ40 (minus C'Thun) and a few bosses in Naxx Pre-TBC and Kara/Gruul since. Our guild was tight and maintained a fun, family atmosphere. Drama-free? Hardly.

If you have ever led a guild or been placed in an officer position you know what I mean when I say it takes a special type of person to make a guild function. It takes a lot of dedication, patience and a genuine passion for what you are doing. You need to inspire people to be better at what they do and lead by example. Not to mention, it usually requires extra-curricular work/pay on websites, voice servers and the like as well.

That being said, there seems to be a disconnect between the time investment vs. incentive. In the current state of affairs what are the advantages to being the 'average' guild leader? You get to design a tabard? You can set the member ranks and monkey around with Officer Notes?

The trend I have witnessed on our server with respect to the old established guilds is very disheartening. Guild XYZ's leader quits. After 2 years Guild XYZ is disbanded because their memberbase does not step up. I can count on one hand the number of guilds left on our server that have been around since BETA... and yes, this is the nature of MMO's - attrition is to be expected. Is this the fault of the guild members? Most definitely. Could this dissolution have been avoided had their been an incentive for people to WANT to be the Guild Lead? I would like to think so.

Even something simple: A special mount, a unique tabard, anything. It would seem logical that it is in the best interests of Blizzard to favor these leadership positions slightly. From a business sense, the longer these people play, the longer the people loyal to them play. Obviously, there would need to be rules in place regarding the rewards available to people for their roles in the guild (time, number of members, etc.). I would go so far to suggest game time for people who have truly helped create a fun and enjoyable gaming experience for other people.

At the very least, if you read the above and come to the conclusion that I am off my rocker, so be it. But if you do one thing today - tell your Guild Leadership they are appreciated. It can make a world of difference. I have recently retired my account and I feel very lucky to have been given the opportunity to play with the people I did. Ultimately - this is the best reward you can receive... I just wish there were some kind of incentive for someone to pickup the torch and keep running with it.

I don't know how far "incentives" should be taken for GMs.. but at the very least guild titles should show up when you inspect someone.

A good leader should be recognized by the guild, even at times when you want to strangle him through Vent. But to suggest that something in-game should be given out is a bit much. What about a bad raid leader? Or a mediocre one? Do they deserve something special that also separates them from the guild?

What if they leave? I think a good GM should do something for these people who can be unsung heroes but that should left internally.

Personally I don't know if I'd want my guild leader to take the position because of a shiny new mount...

Push for a cyber version of droit de seigneur for your guild TBH. Find some silly RP reason to justify it.

I thought guild leaders get all the chicks, isn't that incentive enough????

More than being "unsung", I found that as a guild leader you can get given a pretty hard time. I recently stepped down as an admin of a fairly democratically run social guild. I honestly did my very best to make sure all the decisions I made were for the overall good of the majority in the guild. I listened the concerns people raised, and explained my reasons for any decisions I took. This is what I ended up telling the guild:

I think many leaders of well progressed raiding guilds avoid the grief because the members are too concerned about missing out on their raid spot, or getting the gboot.

That made me LOL. I guess my point really boils down to the guild system in general feels... wrong - and I suppose it always has. Many people who would make fantastic leaders, both raid and guild simply say: "Why bother?"

And rightly so... Why put up with the drama, the discussion, the recruiting, the websites/vent/ts, the point system, etc. etc. etc. when you can login for raids, go PVP and logoff every night without the hassle? What if there was a 'something' that gave an slight tangible meaning behind the term other than what we make of it?

In Asheron's Call, there was an experience point incentive for being a guild leader (essentially; I'm over-simplifying). It led to a lot of abuse of the system, alas.

Here's what I get out of running a raid group: I get a raid group that runs the way I want it to run, more or less. That's actually plenty, since I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get that otherwise.

I'd have to be favor of people telling me I'm doing a good job, though.

I think if you look at it that way, you are guild leader for all the wrong reasons. The best leaders and ,to look at it from a historical perspective, kings are the people who don't want to be in that position. They do it because they must, because they believe by doing what they do they further their guild/ kingdom. Their own personal gain is the last thing they have in mind, and certainly not a shiny new horse. It defintely is time consuming and a tasking undertaking, but seeing progress and people coming into their own is more than enough reward for a good guild leader. Part of being a leader, is building up things so that you are not required. Gaining the trust of strong officers who can do things when you are not around and making sure that things won't collapse if you dissapear means that you did a good job. Anyone that think they are irreplacable, couldn't be more wrong provided a strong incorruptable foundation has already been laid out.

Because when your guild navigates to that new zone without any drama because you saw beforehand what might happen and designed a system that avoided it - or when having those 5 Major Mageblood potions YOU farmed and brought to the patchwork kill really WERE the difference between wipe and kill, because when you take a group of people who "could" do things, but can't organize to "do" it, and give them that order they need to succeed.

There isn't a tabard for that sort of thing. They can't make a mount that says "I got my guild to enjoy wipe nights by bringing everyone together and making them realize that they'd rather wipe with friends than farm with strangers" ... It's part of the job, and to be REALLY freakin' blunt about it - the better you do, the less they'll have any idea how much your influence made it go right.

You can see ranks I think, I'm pretty sure we had a 'Paedophile' rank in our guild and Mearis was made to remove it by a GM. TinyTip shows it i think (or at least it used to).


GM incentives are a silly idea though and probably easily abusable, knowing that you can maintain harmony in a group of 60 assholes with different motivation to a common goal should be payment enough assuming you're masochistic enough to undertake such a task.

I completely agree with you Uthgar - as I mentioned my reward for my time as GL was to see people succeed. I am by no means complaining or requesting any sort of compensation for my time as guild leader. I loved every minute of it and I would do it again (if I had the time to) in a heart beat.

Maybe I worded things a little differently than I intended... I am not implying that Guild Leaders should get 'paid' to perform their role. But the idea of something, anything that differentiates you from the masses might help to appeal to those people who do say: "Why Bother?" and you know would make a great leader.

Leading a raiding guild is one of the most difficult things you can do in WOW. I find my sense of accomplishment is greater being the leader rather then just a member. I know how important I am to our success and thrive on the challenge. It's taxing at times and definitely takes a special type of person. I personally wouldn't want to be in a guild where the guild leader is after some kind of special reward.

Wouldn't work on our server at least, where a lot of the raid groups are cross-guild groups using a custom chat channel. It's an RP server, so people tend to choose their guild for social/RL/RP reasons. Also, in .eu , many guilds are set up for different language speakers, so someone will be in the Polish-language guild, but might raid with any one of the other raid groups.

My guild is Surprised Survivors, but the raid group itself is Chaotic Divinity (don't rag on the shite name, we inherited it from the previous leader and it's part of the furniture now). We've got members from at least 10 different guilds. Indeed, the very fact that there *are* no tools to make a guild much more than a chat channel is what lets us run a raid group this way. When guild banks, guild halls etc. get into the game (if ever they do), I foresee some quite strong pressure to reform as a guild and make people drop their existing ties. And oh, the wailing and gnashing of teeth there will be...

As for what you get, if the satisfaction of having achieved something and knowing that you made it happen isn't enough for you, then I'm not sure you're cut out for raid group leadership. It's a bigger high than any tabard could hope to be. It's not what Blizzard thinkd of you or gives to you, it's what your group thinks of you and how well the group coheres.

What do I care if some random in Shattrath that I've never grouped with is able to look at me and think "Oooh, funky threads, he must be a guild leader". What matters to me at the moment is whether I managed to get a second Karazhan group off the ground and how well they did. (Not very well, actually - 3 mostly-resto druids and two prot warriors leaves you a tad light on the DPS front, as well as lacking CC for Moroes. But that's what we had available, and at least we all had fun trying)

Being a GL is a lot like parenting. You have to be selfless, giving, strict, and respectful. GLs sacrifice their own money and time outside of playing in order to keep the guild running. A good GL never takes anything from the guild. Seeing the guild that you "raised" succeed should be all the reward you need. This sense of accomplishment goes a long way and is the reason many GL continue to bear the burden of running a raiding guild.

I'm going to agree with the running things your own way part. I was a guild member for a very long time (year+) in various guilds, and now being an officer and actually being able to decide on strategies, have input on where loot goes, deciding what boss to kill next, helping find potential recruits...it's simply a lot more interesting to me than sitting back and enjoying the ride.

Here is the answer:

All guild leaders should have their own permanent Booterang. It can only be used on guildies you are partied with, and does the following:

1) Knocks them down for 1 second.
2) Makes their character /yell something immediately.

There is no problem this solution wouldn't solve:

For ex.
Guildie: "My DPS doesn't suck, I'm a frost mage so I should ha...ARGGGHHH BOOTERANG!"

Guildie: "Oh btw guys, I respecced Arms before the raid so....OH GOD BOOTERANG!!!"

Guildie: "This is bullshit, I always have to sit out and its not...AAAHH BOOTERANG KNOWS MY LIES!!"

One thing in WoW is that there's pretty much no incentive for a guild member to be loyal to their guild. This is part of the reason that leading a non top tier raid guild is so stressful. Its because you know people will just leave as soon as progression slows, and that a large number of people you recruit will go as soon as they think they're geared up enough to jump to the next guild.

Thank god.

This is exactly what I am talking about. The majority of the posts so far have assumed I am looking for people to get paid in some fashion for being a Guild Leader. This is 'incentive'. This is something you could do by being a guild leader and would add to the level of involvement you have with the guild.

I am not talking about monetary tithes to your overlord of raiding or hooking him up with some godly weapon. I am talking about ideas for simple UNIQUE things you can do as a guild leader to manage and help support your guild.

Right now all that stands between you and 'Joe Shmo Raider' is you can change the guild tabard and promote/demote him into some meaningless title.

I use a mod called Opium to keep track of which members of the opposing faction will let me farm in peace. It allows me to mouseover both horde and alliance and see their guild ranks.

I dont know if I fit into the proper catagory as described, but a little background and my view.
I started playing WoW beyond the have fun and explore level sometime right before AQ40 launched. Numerous rerolls across multiple servers since my friends from FFXI and RL decided to splinter across the four corners. Once I finally settled, me and like 7-8 friends started a guild. I took on the grunt position and thought I wanted to lead, but as the guild developed(ZG and into MC/Ony) I fell into the position of one who criticized the decisions and offered my usually valuable insight. Enter guild drama due to all our officers being RL friends(they fought each other) and then the guild goes poof.

TBC rolls around and about half of the original crew is playing again, and we decide endgame would be a fun thing to try for, since Karazhan is only 10 mans. We break the old guild(which I had GM of just to prevent name loss) and remake. Somewhere along the line I end up with responsibility and being in charge. I can say from being on both sides of the line, leading is nothing like I expected, nor glorious or enjoyable. The best part is seeing your guys come together and do something you doubted they ever would. Right now we're only working on Gruul, which is a few centuries behind progression of most people on this forum, but our server just got SSC firsts last week /shrug. Just wanted to say leadership is not fun or glorious, and tbh I would drop it if someone else seriously wanted. But until then, just keep plowing forward.