Disclaimer: I did a search, but did not find any topics that specifically referenced what I wanted to discuss, but if I am mistaken please delete.
I have been the guild leader of an 'average' raiding guild for approximately 2 years and a member since open beta. We never strived to achieve server firsts but just to maintain a decent pace and make a stab at seeing some of the high end content. We managed to clear MC, BWL, AQ40 (minus C'Thun) and a few bosses in Naxx Pre-TBC and Kara/Gruul since. Our guild was tight and maintained a fun, family atmosphere. Drama-free? Hardly.
If you have ever led a guild or been placed in an officer position you know what I mean when I say it takes a special type of person to make a guild function. It takes a lot of dedication, patience and a genuine passion for what you are doing. You need to inspire people to be better at what they do and lead by example. Not to mention, it usually requires extra-curricular work/pay on websites, voice servers and the like as well.
That being said, there seems to be a disconnect between the time investment vs. incentive. In the current state of affairs what are the advantages to being the 'average' guild leader? You get to design a tabard? You can set the member ranks and monkey around with Officer Notes?
The trend I have witnessed on our server with respect to the old established guilds is very disheartening. Guild XYZ's leader quits. After 2 years Guild XYZ is disbanded because their memberbase does not step up. I can count on one hand the number of guilds left on our server that have been around since BETA... and yes, this is the nature of MMO's - attrition is to be expected. Is this the fault of the guild members? Most definitely. Could this dissolution have been avoided had their been an incentive for people to WANT to be the Guild Lead? I would like to think so.
Even something simple: A special mount, a unique tabard, anything. It would seem logical that it is in the best interests of Blizzard to favor these leadership positions slightly. From a business sense, the longer these people play, the longer the people loyal to them play. Obviously, there would need to be rules in place regarding the rewards available to people for their roles in the guild (time, number of members, etc.). I would go so far to suggest game time for people who have truly helped create a fun and enjoyable gaming experience for other people.
At the very least, if you read the above and come to the conclusion that I am off my rocker, so be it. But if you do one thing today - tell your Guild Leadership they are appreciated. It can make a world of difference. I have recently retired my account and I feel very lucky to have been given the opportunity to play with the people I did. Ultimately - this is the best reward you can receive... I just wish there were some kind of incentive for someone to pickup the torch and keep running with it.
A good leader should be recognized by the guild, even at times when you want to strangle him through Vent. But to suggest that something in-game should be given out is a bit much. What about a bad raid leader? Or a mediocre one? Do they deserve something special that also separates them from the guild?
What if they leave? I think a good GM should do something for these people who can be unsung heroes but that should left internally.
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More than being "unsung", I found that as a guild leader you can get given a pretty hard time. I recently stepped down as an admin of a fairly democratically run social guild. I honestly did my very best to make sure all the decisions I made were for the overall good of the majority in the guild. I listened the concerns people raised, and explained my reasons for any decisions I took. This is what I ended up telling the guild:
I got sick of people giving me attitude and never getting any gratitude for organising raids / guild bank / fixing peoples problems for them, so I stood down as admin, and when I did that all the other admins did as well. We've had 2 admins quit the game in the last few months before as well.
Basically, if you admin a guild of medium size upwards, people start to expect you to make their game fun for them, and eventually people thanking you turns into people taking it for granted, turns into people actually being whiny, and ultimately abusive if they don't get their own way, it just gets too much to put up with, so I stopped.
I think many leaders of well progressed raiding guilds avoid the grief because the members are too concerned about missing out on their raid spot, or getting the gboot.
Last edited by Braque : 06/11/07 at 12:44 PM.
Push for a cyber version of droit de seigneur for your guild TBH. Find some silly RP reason to justify it.
That made me LOL. I guess my point really boils down to the guild system in general feels... wrong - and I suppose it always has. Many people who would make fantastic leaders, both raid and guild simply say: "Why bother?"
And rightly so... Why put up with the drama, the discussion, the recruiting, the websites/vent/ts, the point system, etc. etc. etc. when you can login for raids, go PVP and logoff every night without the hassle? What if there was a 'something' that gave an slight tangible meaning behind the term other than what we make of it?
I think if you look at it that way, you are guild leader for all the wrong reasons. The best leaders and ,to look at it from a historical perspective, kings are the people who don't want to be in that position. They do it because they must, because they believe by doing what they do they further their guild/ kingdom. Their own personal gain is the last thing they have in mind, and certainly not a shiny new horse. It defintely is time consuming and a tasking undertaking, but seeing progress and people coming into their own is more than enough reward for a good guild leader. Part of being a leader, is building up things so that you are not required. Gaining the trust of strong officers who can do things when you are not around and making sure that things won't collapse if you dissapear means that you did a good job. Anyone that think they are irreplacable, couldn't be more wrong provided a strong incorruptable foundation has already been laid out.
Why put up with the drama, the discussion, the recruiting, the websites/vent/ts, the point system, etc. etc. etc. when you can login for raids, go PVP and logoff every night without the hassle?
Because when your guild navigates to that new zone without any drama because you saw beforehand what might happen and designed a system that avoided it - or when having those 5 Major Mageblood potions YOU farmed and brought to the patchwork kill really WERE the difference between wipe and kill, because when you take a group of people who "could" do things, but can't organize to "do" it, and give them that order they need to succeed.
There isn't a tabard for that sort of thing. They can't make a mount that says "I got my guild to enjoy wipe nights by bringing everyone together and making them realize that they'd rather wipe with friends than farm with strangers" ... It's part of the job, and to be REALLY freakin' blunt about it - the better you do, the less they'll have any idea how much your influence made it go right.
Last edited by Shaker : 06/11/07 at 12:54 PM.
I don't know how far "incentives" should be taken for GMs.. but at the very least guild titles should show up when you inspect someone.
You can see ranks I think, I'm pretty sure we had a 'Paedophile' rank in our guild and Mearis was made to remove it by a GM. TinyTip shows it i think (or at least it used to).
GM incentives are a silly idea though and probably easily abusable, knowing that you can maintain harmony in a group of 60 assholes with different motivation to a common goal should be payment enough assuming you're masochistic enough to undertake such a task.
I completely agree with you Uthgar - as I mentioned my reward for my time as GL was to see people succeed. I am by no means complaining or requesting any sort of compensation for my time as guild leader. I loved every minute of it and I would do it again (if I had the time to) in a heart beat.
Maybe I worded things a little differently than I intended... I am not implying that Guild Leaders should get 'paid' to perform their role. But the idea of something, anything that differentiates you from the masses might help to appeal to those people who do say: "Why Bother?" and you know would make a great leader.