He does an animation when he comes out of banish, that if the MT is standing directly in front of him, looks like he is attacking the MT. He's not, it's just an animation, nothing the MT does or misdirecting hunter does during this initial animation means anything.
That said, I generally don't have a problem getting Mag under control as long as nobody else stands in close proximity, he gets a shield slam and autoattack to the face as soon as I see him acquire a target (usually me). Usually I have a hunter MD, but sometimes things have been chaotic and it hasn't happened. I have had to tell healers not to stand right next to Mag as they are healing for the channeler mopup, if they are too close, sometimes Mag will acquire them and one shot them before I can get something into him.
@Renew: This rogue didn't die in cleave, we could see that mag tragetted the rogue, tourned around, killed him and tourned back to the MT. Altough we had rogues and channeler tanks who died in cleave, but they are learning to run away on earthquake and die rarely.
@Agren: I missunderstood the "banish" from a few posts above, I meant the phase when he gets double dmg after klicking the cubes. The rogue and me got aggro at around 50% of mag.
When mag first comes out our mt never had really problem picking him up (ok one time he placed mag very close to one cube and I got a cleave when I should klick that cube ...)
Normally we bring more palas to magtheridon and we never had to care about aggro on mag with BOS.
My Guild has downed Magtheridon the 3rd time yesterday and we had lot's of wipes yesterday and the day before (mainly due to klicking issues and disconnets) but 2 times we had dds pulling aggro off the MT wich is not explainable for me.
Following happened:
We had only 1 Pala this weekend and I told him to exchange -aggro with manareg at about 80-90%. We had a little strange group composition: I (frost mage) had 2 shamans in my group.
At about 70% of Mag I used invisibility to completly reset aggro and I'm sure that I wasn't interupted in doing so.
I didn't have to click the cubes and gone all out of dmg after aggro reset (priest, 2 heroism trinkets, procs, ....) At about 50% I had a small series of 4k dmg frostbolts and suddenly Magtheridon turned around, made a few steps in my direction one-shotted me and returned back to the tank.
1 or 2 trys later we had the same with a rouge vanishing at 50 or 60% and 1 minute later got aggro and was killed.
There I tought that something must be wrong here and realized that we had some similar events before: We had 1 or 2 rouges got aggro the week before but we claimed that they didn't vanish correctly there (they said they did).
We also had a 1% wipe the day before wehre MT got killed at 5% and I got aggro, palas gave me BOP and I still had aggro (of course didn't get dmg) I used iceblock additionally and for a few seconds I had BOP and iceblock and aggro at the same time, where at least 15 other people where still alive.
It seems for me that Magtheridon is bugged and somehow resists aggro resets and aggro immunities.
I've also read the rest of this thread and I'm not completly sure that we didn't get aggro right after a banish but as far as I remember it wasn't after a banish.
Also the rouge and I were when we died the highest persons on Aggro List, if the aggro reset doesn' count.
don't have any debuff on him when you drop threat. Having any sort of dot or threat generating debuff on him will make the threat drop useless for some reason. Known bug (at least on the EJ forums, not sure if Blizz knows).
Dreamless sleep potions also seem to help, if you want an easy solution. When I used to bring them with me on raids, I would have one up for about every other earthquake...and it holds you still. It was great mana regeneration for me, and helped heal up any extra damage I took. Just make sure you're not about to get bounced into a conflag...wasted a good pot from that.
(as for the knockback issue....agh, I need to read more...lol)
According to our rogues that is not sufficient and we have had the problem 3 weeks in a row.
I made a post of it in the omen threat discussion as their had been some mention their. Omen - Ace Threat Meter
The rogue allready knew it was a issue and we had discussions the previous week about it, he made sure he had no poison dot or rupture debuff and yet still pulled aggro.
We are killing bosses from Khara to Hydross, Void Reaver but this is the only fight they are consistently pulling aggro after dropping threat.
Oh and if your looking at the log we are Australians and New Zealanders, yes thats normal lag.
Tonight we had many melee dps get 1 shotted by Mag after the bounce or after him coming out of banish. On both occasions it was definitely not a cleave (mag would turn 180 degrees and melee) and the unlucky rogue/shaman would be easily 25k Threat below the tank, and not even the 2nd on aggro (although probably 2nd melee on aggro).
Tonight we had many melee dps get 1 shotted by Mag after the bounce or after him coming out of banish. On both occasions it was definitely not a cleave (mag would turn 180 degrees and melee) and the unlucky rogue/shaman would be easily 25k Threat below the tank, and not even the 2nd on aggro (although probably 2nd melee on aggro).
Another anecdote: Last week on mag, during an earthquake he ran to me and killed me. I was second on aggro, but well below the MT in threat (not to mention he pulled onto me while I was bouncing around and not DPSing). This was a pretty random event, so I just chalked it up to an error with Omen/FD Resist.
Edit: 3 edits to fix two typos, time for sleep I think
Tonight we had many melee dps get 1 shotted by Mag after the bounce or after him coming out of banish. On both occasions it was definitely not a cleave (mag would turn 180 degrees and melee) and the unlucky rogue/shaman would be easily 25k Threat below the tank, and not even the 2nd on aggro (although probably 2nd melee on aggro).
Is it possible that the melee was (randomly) targeted for his spit (is it called conflag?), and for that brief second, they were considered as having aggro, and the tank was not over the 110% threshold for "pulling" aggro?
Everybody is your brother until the rent comes due.
I thought RSTS abilities didn't affect who the mob considers to be the "aggro target."
'War' is too small a word for what I'm fighting. Like a candle in front of the whole burning Sun. Now, I am not going to die today. I have other projects, and other options.
Last night I pulled aggro with a good 30-40K below MT's threat according to KTM. I was 2nd on the aggro list at the time. The rogues all went "see! now you know how it feels," because they've been regularly pulling aggro last raids. Someone in the group ticketed a GM about it and was told that such bugginess is a known issue.
Sounds like Ragnaros back in the day - I'd die from aggro 15 seconds into the fight, even though we'd have all the melee wait for the first knockback to start DPSing, I'd lay there for a minute, then get a CR, then pull aggro immediately.
Sounds like Ragnaros back in the day - I'd die from aggro 15 seconds into the fight, even though we'd have all the melee wait for the first knockback to start DPSing, I'd lay there for a minute, then get a CR, then pull aggro immediately.
No, not at all. Ragnaros had a clear deaggro - the knockback.
Magtheridon is regularly trashing people even though he has no clear deaggro. He nailed me 4 minutes after he broke free for pulling aggro, only 1 minute after I had Vanished.
Before you start to drift, and your soul begins to scream.
I just wanted to tell you, that you're listening to a dream.
I don't think you're understanding me, I'm talking about scenarios where Rag would aggro on me, after a CR, during which 5 other melee were attacking, and during which all knockbacks had been resisted by the tanks.
One way to influence direction you bounce (handy for anyone near mag) as soon as you hit the ground after each bounce, strafe and jump at the same time in the opposite direction of mag (usually Q + jump) this helps you get towards the wall and out of cleave range.
This week I didn't vanish at all but using a threat meter stayed below the MT's threat using feint and restricting my ability use (no AR for the lose )-: ). As one would expect I survived the whole fight without issue. The other rogue in the raid, who has 3 weeks in a row been killed by Magtheridon after vanishing, vanished BUT this week vanish seemed to work.
He was near my threat level when he vanished at about 70% HP, and by the end he was again catching me on threat. If vanish had not worked it would not have been possible for him to do this without Mag turning on him.
I think that this shows that if Magtheridon is (still) bugged WRT vanish it is not easily reproducible )-:
Yesterday I got smashed by Nightbane after I vanished.
I *did* draw aggro through before I vanished.
However, I vanished, Nightbane hit me at the same second when I vanished and then refused to drop aggro on me. I dodged one attack and then fell dead over.
Rupture was ticking as well as Deadly Poison, but I'm not sure if that was the cause or the fact that I actually received the damage after having vanished, e.g. client<->server lag (normally when a mob hits you at the same time you vanished, the damage is not substracted from your health).
Also that Combat Potency proc is really irritating. 0.8 seconds after my last hit and 1.2 seconds after my last offhand hit!
7/18 22:10:04.734 You hit Nightbane for 167.
7/18 22:10:05.140 You hit Nightbane for 287. (glancing)
7/18 22:10:05.171 Nightbane suffers 274 Nature damage from your Deadly Poison VII.
7/18 22:10:05.343 You perform Vanish.
7/18 22:10:05.359 You gain Stealth.
7/18 22:10:05.359 You gain Vanish.
7/18 22:10:05.640 Nightbane hits you for 7605.
7/18 22:10:05.906 You gain 15 Energy from Combat Potency.
7/18 22:10:06.078 Nightbane suffers 240 Physical damage from your Rupture.
7/18 22:10:06.093 Vanish fades from you.
7/18 22:10:07.625 Nightbane attacks. You dodge.
7/18 22:10:08.125 Nightbane suffers 239 Physical damage from your Rupture.
7/18 22:10:08.359 Nightbane suffers 274 Nature damage from your Deadly Poison VII.
7/18 22:10:09.453 Divismal's Flash of Light critically heals you for 2049.
7/18 22:10:09.765 Nightbane hits you for 8877.
7/18 22:10:09.781 Your Stealth is removed by Nightbane.
7/18 22:10:09.781 Your equipped items suffer a 10% durability loss.
7/18 22:10:10.156 You die.
According to our rogues that is not sufficient and we have had the problem 3 weeks in a row.
I made a post of it in the omen threat discussion as their had been some mention their. Omen - Ace Threat Meter
The rogue allready knew it was a issue and we had discussions the previous week about it, he made sure he had no poison dot or rupture debuff and yet still pulled aggro.
We are killing bosses from Khara to Hydross, Void Reaver but this is the only fight they are consistently pulling aggro after dropping threat.
Oh and if your looking at the log we are Australians and New Zealanders, yes thats normal lag.
Then tell your rogue to stop hitting mag right when he unbanishes.
I've had NO problems on mag so long as I don't have a dot on him at the time of me vanishing.
What is more than likely happening is your rogue is getting snap agro (over 100% threat, but not over 110%) and attacking mag prior to the tank tapping him, thus mag will spin and get at least an attack of before the tank regains hold of him.
Yesterday I got smashed by Nightbane after I vanished.
I *did* draw aggro through before I vanished.
However, I vanished, Nightbane hit me at the same second when I vanished and then refused to drop aggro on me. I dodged one attack and then fell dead over.
Rupture was ticking as well as Deadly Poison, but I'm not sure if that was the cause or the fact that I actually received the damage after having vanished, e.g. client<->server lag (normally when a mob hits you at the same time you vanished, the damage is not substracted from your health).
Also that Combat Potency proc is really irritating. 0.8 seconds after my last hit and 1.2 seconds after my last offhand hit!
7/18 22:10:04.734 You hit Nightbane for 167.
7/18 22:10:05.140 You hit Nightbane for 287. (glancing)
7/18 22:10:05.171 Nightbane suffers 274 Nature damage from your Deadly Poison VII.
7/18 22:10:05.343 You perform Vanish.
7/18 22:10:05.359 You gain Stealth.
7/18 22:10:05.359 You gain Vanish.
7/18 22:10:05.640 Nightbane hits you for 7605.
7/18 22:10:05.906 You gain 15 Energy from Combat Potency.
7/18 22:10:06.078 Nightbane suffers 240 Physical damage from your Rupture.
7/18 22:10:06.093 Vanish fades from you.
7/18 22:10:07.625 Nightbane attacks. You dodge.
7/18 22:10:08.125 Nightbane suffers 239 Physical damage from your Rupture.
7/18 22:10:08.359 Nightbane suffers 274 Nature damage from your Deadly Poison VII.
7/18 22:10:09.453 Divismal's Flash of Light critically heals you for 2049.
7/18 22:10:09.765 Nightbane hits you for 8877.
7/18 22:10:09.781 Your Stealth is removed by Nightbane.
7/18 22:10:09.781 Your equipped items suffer a 10% durability loss.
7/18 22:10:10.156 You die.
1. Combat log data is not in chronological order.
2. That was the dot issue.
3. Don't vanish to drop agro, vanish to prevent it.
1. Combat log data is not in chronological order.
2. That was the dot issue.
3. Don't vanish to drop agro, vanish to prevent it.
:P
1. I know, but the CP proc seems to be way out of line, even for the combat log.
2. I'm not so sure, I suspect a DOT would have to tick quite at the same time as when you perform Vanish. This would also explain why Vanish is not always broken when you have DOTs on your target, but only one some occasions.
However in this case, I rather assume that it was really Nightbane hitting me just at the same time that I vanished, and that due to client<->server lag and a very unfortunate timing, this one hit came through before the Vanish Invulnerability™ activated and so prevented me from clearing aggro. Just like a DOT, but that the enemy damaged me and not me the enemy.
3. That was kind of weird. I was using Omen and pulled out the tank's threat bar. Last time I looked I was at about 70% and a few seconds later I had aggro. Don't if it was due to a lack of attention or due to a KTM <-> Omen discrepancy.
1. I know, but the CP proc seems to be way out of line, even for the combat log.
2. I'm not so sure, I suspect a DOT would have to tick quite at the same time as when you perform Vanish. This would also explain why Vanish is not always broken when you have DOTs on your target, but only one some occasions.
However in this case, I rather assume that it was really Nightbane hitting me just at the same time that I vanished, and that due to client<->server lag and a very unfortunate timing, this one hit came through before the Vanish Invulnerability™ activated and so prevented me from clearing aggro. Just like a DOT, but that the enemy damaged me and not me the enemy.
3. That was kind of weird. I was using Omen and pulled out the tank's threat bar. Last time I looked I was at about 70% and a few seconds later I had aggro. Don't if it was due to a lack of attention or due to a KTM <-> Omen discrepancy.
Omen is still a little odd at times :P
My best advice is to not depend on it whenever possible (all non-agro sensitive fights).
7/18 22:10:05.171 Nightbane suffers 274 Nature damage from your Deadly Poison VII.
7/18 22:10:05.359 You gain Vanish.
that's a 188ms difference... If you're ping was around that when you vanished then they most likely went off at the same time.
Then tell your rogue to stop hitting mag right when he unbanishes.
I've had NO problems on mag so long as I don't have a dot on him at the time of me vanishing.
What is more than likely happening is your rogue is getting snap agro (over 100% threat, but not over 110%) and attacking mag prior to the tank tapping him, thus mag will spin and get at least an attack of before the tank regains hold of him.
Like I said above, I believe that it isn't an easily reproducible bug. And I will again confirm I had no DoTs on the mob, I confirmed there was no deadly debuff visually before vanishing and my rupture had long gone.
This has never happened before, in 2 months of killing him till after 2.1.3. I think your assessment of the situation is flawed. The reason I think this is that it was the second time I'd vanished in that fight. That means in the 80 seconds between when I vanished and when I was killed I managed to catch the threat of the tank who had been building threat since the start of the fight. Or that at least one of the vanishes didn't work (I estimate only one of them didn't work or I would have died near the same time the first rogue died).
Originally Posted by Marroc
Omen is still a little odd at times :P
My best advice is to not depend on it whenever possible (all non-agro sensitive fights).
7/18 22:10:05.171 Nightbane suffers 274 Nature damage from your Deadly Poison VII.
7/18 22:10:05.359 You gain Vanish.
that's a 188ms difference... If you're ping was around that when you vanished then they most likely went off at the same time.
Does this really matter though? Vanish is supposed to be a complete aggro drop, and works on every other boss fight properly. If you vanish on 5000 threat and your deadly dot hits for 274 nature damage before the server sees you vanish you end up with 5274 (or so) threat momentarily then get it reset to zero. If the server sees you vanish first you end up with 274 threat (or so). Either way if you had aggro the boss should switch to the person on the top of the threat list after the vanish. 4 seconds is a lot of time for the boss to still be hitting someone who's threat has been reduced to zero.
We normally bring the 1st two adds together so the rogues can Blade Furry. Our first few attempts we had 3-4 internals spawn all with in seconds of each other, right on the clustered up dps. This killed most of us.
Does this really matter though? Vanish is supposed to be a complete aggro drop, and works on every other boss fight properly. If you vanish on 5000 threat and your deadly dot hits for 274 nature damage before the server sees you vanish you end up with 5274 (or so) threat momentarily then get it reset to zero. If the server sees you vanish first you end up with 274 threat (or so). Either way if you had aggro the boss should switch to the person on the top of the threat list after the vanish. 4 seconds is a lot of time for the boss to still be hitting someone who's threat has been reduced to zero.
Note that my log was for Nightbane while you were having problems on Magtheridon.
Now one boss could have been just a simple bug, but two bosses is rather suspicious.
Yeh I realised that you were fighting NB. Caesar2000 on the previous page referred to people talking about existing weird aggro conditions on NB in comparison to the new weird aggro conditions happening on Magtheridon.
From the descriptions of the occurances in the two fights it seems to be a very simililar, if not identical, problem, where vanish does not reduce aggro to zero as it should do.
Perhaps it's more apparent in Mag because it goes for 10 minutes give or take a few without the boss doing an aggro drop of any sort (barring fear, which NB also does). From descriptions in the thread the problem doesn't seem to be an effect of having the tank 'suspended' on the threat list after a fear though.
EDIT: After reading the recent posts in the Omen thread I now think that the two vanish problems are different. Both seem immune to vanish in some cases but it looks like Mag will only aggro at over 110% threat, where NB seems to be switching aggro at a lower percentage (and even remaining on the target after vanish and a BoP) which is completely different.
Like I said above, I believe that it isn't an easily reproducible bug. And I will again confirm I had no DoTs on the mob, I confirmed there was no deadly debuff visually before vanishing and my rupture had long gone.
This has never happened before, in 2 months of killing him till after 2.1.3. I think your assessment of the situation is flawed. The reason I think this is that it was the second time I'd vanished in that fight. That means in the 80 seconds between when I vanished and when I was killed I managed to catch the threat of the tank who had been building threat since the start of the fight. Or that at least one of the vanishes didn't work (I estimate only one of them didn't work or I would have died near the same time the first rogue died).
Does this really matter though? Vanish is supposed to be a complete aggro drop, and works on every other boss fight properly. If you vanish on 5000 threat and your deadly dot hits for 274 nature damage before the server sees you vanish you end up with 5274 (or so) threat momentarily then get it reset to zero. If the server sees you vanish first you end up with 274 threat (or so). Either way if you had aggro the boss should switch to the person on the top of the threat list after the vanish. 4 seconds is a lot of time for the boss to still be hitting someone who's threat has been reduced to zero.
It does because vanish is currently bugged, and if there is a dot tick when you vanish your agro is not dropped :P
07/17/07, 8:44 AM
Similar Threads
