My guild has downed Leo once, and if you check out website, 3 people were alive when he died. Yesterday night we had our second run at him and had many wipes below 5% (starting to feel like the next Huhuran) with our last wipe of the night at 1% when he enraged and destroyed our raid almost instantly... way faster than normal...

Our DPS is excellent. We can get him to 15% with everyone up consistently. Sometimes our warlock gets 6-7 stacks of the debuff during the demon phase but after assigning a healer to his pet, we had no issues with him getting one-shot (since his pet never died...).

The problem we're having is we get to 15% with about 2-2.5 minutes left, but our timing always seems to be such that our warlocks debuffs haven't completely worn off yet. So either 1) we go into phase 3 with 5-6 stacks, hope for the best and CR him when he dies or 2) wait for them to roll off. Well, we didn't have too much luck with option 1, so on our last attempt we waited for them to roll off, which is when we wiped at 1% when he enraged (had people been more spread out I think it would have taken longer for him to kill us).

Anyway, I was thinking that perhaps instead of waiting, we could DI our warlock and CR the pally (if possible) thus eliminating the problem all together... but I was wondering what other guilds are doing. It just seems like a really big mess after 15%, which I assume is somewhat normal... but want to eliminate as much of the luck as possible.

So my question is, is everyone using DI at 15% to wipe your lock of his debuffs, then dps down the human form while getting out for whirlwinds like a normal phase 1 until dead? Or is it just a big zerg with him bouncing around killing people? Or do you stack DPS and get him to 15% before the 2.5 minute mark?

This is my first post here and hopefully it will be well received. I really respect this community here, it is much more informative and constructive than the RnD forums on the wow site. Thanks in advance!

We've always used DI to wipe the lock's debuffs at 15%, and we have rogues evasion through the whirlwind that he does before he dies (well, actually I don't know about the other rogues...but I do).

This post might be better suited to the 4 page Leotheras 2.1 thread though.

2 minutes is plenty of time to bring him down after 15%, so your DPS is not a problem. What we do is yes, DI the paladin, and assign all healers to tanks (warlock and human form tank) and during whirlwind everyone except the tank just runs the other way until he is picked up again, if you get hit by whirlwind you keep yourself up or you die. But ya it is essentially a burn before you die phase, however I would not be surprised at all if your main problem is the warlock dieing early, DI will fix that.

PS this might get heaped and you will probably be told to post this in the current Leotheras thread.

Anything over 2 stacks, and you're asking for disaster in the last phase. DI is the standard method to wipe the debuff, yes, though we've just had good timing and gotten to 15% without massive stacks on the warlock tank. Even 2 stacks can be iffy if you get some unlucky resists, so the safe way is to always DI the warlock and you'll be fine. Don't forget to remind your warlock to click off DI, so he's not confused. :P

I hope it doesn't, I was reading that thread and it was mostly about who tanks him, and how much FR to use etc.. not about what to do at 15%...I didn't want to derail it. Thanks for the feedback so far tho.

I warrior tank it in demon form. If my stack is high, it forces me to blow LS/Shield wall.

If you are a warlock with a 4 stack of the debuff though, then yea, your gonna get blown away without wiping it.

We have had instances where I got fried and we were still able to finish out by just burning him out and healing strong. Basically, if everyone is alive at 15%, and your healers are able to keep pace, you should be able to finish it just by unloading on him. When he transitions back to human at 15%, do not stop attacking until the end of the first whirlwind, he should be at 12% before his shadow spawns, and then you can just continue the attack.

Pretty much its a zerg is what i'm saying.

We consistently wait for our demon tank (Warlock) to clear his debuff, which amounts to not going 15% in the Demon phase nor Human phase before debuff clear. For example, last week, we spent almost an entire Human phase doing no DPS.

Obviously, if you are looking at hitting the berserk timer, DI is the way to go, but we've yet to resort to DI. Nonetheless, it is essential to drop the debuff, one way or another. As well, soulstone the Demon tank, in case of death; said tank need only over-aggro healers.

The Warlock can Soulstone himself right? Tell him to do that and if he dies again which is highly unlikely you can Combat rezz him. As stormheart said a warrior can tank the demon on the last 20% while the MT still keeps Leo.

Are those really the numbers for dps needed to kill him now. We should be getting to him this week, and I'm astounded that it seems like a very easy DPS benchmark to hit now. Also, tell your feral druid to Shred.

We just use a second tank for the last 15% so we don't have to worry about timing it perfectly or using DI or the like. Our warrior MT tanks human and demon Leo from 100%-->15%, and then a bear wearing mixed FR/DPS gear tanks the Shadow from 15%-->0%.

We have a Warrior tanking the demon phase all the time, so he's got "oh shit" buttons if things get too crazy. On one kill, he died at 8% from a really bad resist string (Chaos Blast was hitting for 18k after Shield Wall faded) and we just zerged Leo down. Our healing assignments in the Enrage are exactly the same as the rest of the fight, there's just an understanding that you may need to spam flash heals to keep people up. If healers have nearly-full mana and a pot cooldown going into 15%, you should be fine.

Hm... Looks like we're missing a few hundred thousand damage. I'll look into this, thanks.

We always SS our lock tank and reapply it if we get a string of unlucky resists during a demon form.

Sounds to me like DI is the way to go (at least with our group).

I considered this being a hunter but think HP would be an issue here... locks tend to have more as it is (especially SL)... though it would up your DPS some.

BTW I wanted to mention that we have been having our feral druid tank Leo (human form) in mixed dps/tank gear... he was having alot easier time picking it up during the transitions. (multiple prot warriors in bad DPS gear FTL... but it really says something about our dps when you consider how many raid spots are filled by non-dps specced classes).

Frankly, the DPS quota is really low. In vanilla TBC, most of our DPS could stand in a corner for all of the Human phase and max burn in Demon phase. We would still come in over budget. DPSing in Human phase simply decreased the baseline for stupid deaths. Now, losing DPS is very forgiving and no consumables are required (but obviously help and are cheap, so why not).

Yea-- We had our melee DPS be extremely cautious of WWs. Since they could go full-tilt during Demon phases, we didn't want needless deaths to WWs.

Thanks a ton. I just remember reading all of the threads pre-2.1 about how many consumables were needed to make up for the high DPS threshold required for Leo, and I was surprised to see that it doesn't seem so high now. I knew he had gotten nerfed, but if this is as significant as it seems, it doesn't seem anywhere near as hard anymore.

Just make sure your tank and dps are at their max melee range. It's really that simple.

Yes, it's the same procedure as for Vashj p1 & p3 with static charges on your tank.

We tried it some times with a warlock, but we came to the conclussion it's better for us having a "worthless" warrior tanking and add another full dps to down him faster, this is because we aren't willing to drop our raid composition for an easier kill.

SS or DI and SS on paladin works well. I'd prolly say to use it on 5-6 stacks during the 15% phase. Died more than halfway through it and took around 10s to get aggro back from healers. Around 9 stacks healing me turns into Patchwerk OT healing pre-tbc, even worse.

The range on Chaos blast was reduced down to 5ish yards in patch 2.1 so it is a non issue anymore.

We've been fine just waiting for stacks to clear on our demon phase tank, and we by no means have exceptional DPS. We've been killing him with a minute or two to spare even sitting around like morons waiting on the debuff.

If your DPS is well ahead of the target, one pseudo-advantage of waiting like this is that you're going to be a lot more likely to have trinket cooldowns and such available for the third phase. Phase 3 is difficult to sustain, so the more DPS you can burst out, the less time you have for something to go wrong and wipe you (demon tank death, all your rogues die to a whirlwind, etc).

Not that you need the forced pause while your demon tank's debuffs clear to do this, but it'll help with some of your less aware/strategic raiders.

That said, after reading this thread I think I'm going to suggest a "stop using cooldowns" call at 35% or so, and just use the DI/Soulstone trick on our warlock tank, should have the same effect and it'll shave an extra 45-60ish seconds off our kill times. I'd honestly never considered DIing to clear the debuff.

For those still using the warlock tank for demon phase, having your warrior stack + block value has worked wonders for us. Should be able to take care of his inner demon rather quickly, and the big shield slams also reduce issues with aggro coming out of the whirlwinds.