The first time I ran out of mana was either Azgalor or Kaz'rogal. And this was the first time since forever that I can think of. I'm usually top 3 for healing, sometimes 3-4% over other healers and generally only behind a Resto Chain Heal Shaman with over 2k+heal and a Shadowpriest. I don't get a Shadowpriest - just MT group for Devo. Between Alch Stone, Pendant of the Violet Eye, and 13500+ raid buffed mana/DF/DI and 26+% crit it just isn't possible to run out of mana unless you *only* spam max rank HL. I can even LOH and pot immediately after and act like nothing happened at all :-( Its made healing slightly boring, and no where near as fun as Naxx healing (I played a Priest with a metric asston of Spirit) trying to dip in and out of fsr and keeping people alive. I would much rather prefer an "energy" type of Mana - smaller pool, faster regen with more options available to us for regen methodology.

I believe my computation was somewhere between 0.17 and 0.18. I used some rounded up stats, though (80 int = 1% crit, 22 crit rating = 1% crit, 1 crit rating = 2/3 +damage). Int gives a little bit of mana as well. It's not very useful but I decided to just use it to round up the number to .2 instead. It just makes computation and remembering the number easier.

Theoretically the could just reduce the budgeting on mp5 and remove mana potions from the game entirely, they aren't really useful for anything other than raid regen.

I don't have the exact quotes, but it sounded as if Blizzard might be moving towards a changed mana regeneration model in WotLK. Several comments were made along the vein of "Currently, we find ourselves trying to tell people they want Spirit, with them grudgingly taking it. We want any class with a mana bar to actively desire spirit.' From the day 2 class palen Q&A: "The Spirit stat in general will be improved for WotLK. The mana regen needs another pass. At the same time, the mana bar will not be turned into an energy bar."

Hopefully we'll see an equalization of spirit across healing classes, a ramping up of its effect, an additional benefit beyond straight mana regen to make it more desirable for mages, and the removal of mp5 as an obsolete stat that was only ever a temporary measure to patch their broken mana regen system.

If they don't remove mana potions from raid/group play, then hardcore players will still continue to forsake regeneration stats in favor of raw power. That's generally a bad thing.

Did you see the comment on one of the panels about introducing Alchemy only BoP Pots? Yeah i'm never taking Alchemy trinket off ever.

Wow. Maybe they just really don't get it.

Or maybe they are trying to break the status quo of casters having tailoring and enchanting by making alchemy look that more appealing.

I hope they look at intellect as well while looking at spirit. Currently, it's either arcane specced or don't bother.

It really depends on what kind of potions we're talking about, are we talking about the 2-minute cooldown potions, or are we talking about 1-hour buff elixirs? If it's the first, it's silly. If it's the second, it's really a bit like the perks enchanters currently get, and jewelcrafters are getting with 2.2 (A minor statistical benefit over people that don't have it in other words, think along the lines of a BoP Mageblood Elixir giving 20 mana/5 instead of 16).

There's also the (rather lackluster) possibility that the BoP potions will be simply cheaper to produce. That seems unlikely though, because while it's potentially a pretty large gain in the amount of time spent getting your mana potions, it isn't particularly exciting or interesting as a perk to the profession either.

I wonder if warlocks are included in that. They already have an interesting and different mana regeneration system, and more variety is always good.

I really thought that too until I got my Blue Dragon Card.

I saved ten to fifteen Super Mana Potions last night doing Hydross, Lurker, Moro, and Karathress, by using it over my Alchemist Stone. Normally I go through twenty five to thirty SMPs per night, more on learning nights, obviously. Considering that I go all out on consumables and spare no expense for raids (I carry 10 Super Rejuv Potions on me at all times for emergencies and replenish on weekends), it made me very happy.

So I think I will be using my Alc Stone for learning attempts and Blue Dragon for everything else. Eye of Gruul will stay in its spot. That Blue Dragon card is more or less a sidegrade of the Eye of Gruul; it equals out to trading about 1500 mana every so often for +44 healing constantly & 500 mana every so often. The mana part on both EOG and BDC have the same proc chance, so they're more or less a sidegrade of each other.

I say it is about time they did BOP pots for alchemists. That is very exciting and maybe I will be reusing my Alc Stone religiously as I once did. Getting alchemy and herbalism for raiding was the best decision I ever made in-game.

Easiest way to fix that would be to have mana potions function as mini-Innervates, so the amount you get back from a mana potion is dependent on your Spirit.

That would essentially make them useless for non-healers, and even more required for healers.

EDIT: I really don't see any long term solution that doesn't involve an effective removal of mana potions from the raid game, or at the very least some insurance that they won't be used more than once per fight. In fights that are longer than 2 or 3 minutes they are, basically by definition, a burden that goes far beyond their intended purpose in the game (i.e. an emergency button). Raid mana regeneration *must be* a function *only* of equipment and raid synergies, because any system that allows for the influence of mana potion chugging will ultimately be trivialized by them.

It's certainly been talked about before, but making mana potions a "Last Stand" sort of temporary effect would still make them useful in emergencies and a liability as a sustained mana supply. And would force Blizzard to arrive at a practical regeneration model.

Unless you took a pass through the mechanics and revamped the bonuses each class gets from Spirit to make it more evenly desirable for all casters, which is exactly what Blizzard have said they're doing.

That may be true of the first point, but certainly doesn't affect the second. If it builds on Spirit, then you're basically destined to arrive at an effect that's even more powerful than it is now. And they're already the most overpowering crafted buff imaginable.

LOL I would love this; I have 812 Spirit when raid buffed with Alc Stone/Raven Idol.

I would be in resto druid heaven if they ever did this. Seriously. I wish. Excellent idea; maybe someday we'll see it.

Honestly, you need to be careful what you wish for here. Blizzard isn't in this game to make your class overpowered, they're in it to give you a challenge. If your class is capable of regenerating vast amounts of mana from potions, then expect to be spending a lot of mana in raid encounters. It's that simple. Greater capacity to heal *will* be met with greater need to heal.

I hope so. Our interesting and different mana regen system comes at quite the DPS cost because it's active, not passive, and requires global cooldowns (and in the case of dark pact, additional threat.) Our dpm is also quite bad (I can blow through a mana bar in about 45 seconds, and a mana pot in 14.)

I've always seen potions as useful for those "oh crap" situations. I think blizzard intended them for this, and when you get yourself in a sticky situation it's nice to have a potion available. But chugging pots doesn't sound like it was the initial intended use for pots, but players will do what it takes to beat the raid bosses.

The suggested solutions to a. make pots do less and/or b. make the mats much more plentiful or make an amount of mats make more pots just don't seem to satisfy the emergency status of potions. If pots are made easily and cheaply available they continue to be a regen stat that overshadows new amounts of mana regen gained from gear and will never be ready for the "emergency" because they have been relegated to the baseline.

Well there other ways to make it non-baseline other than increasing costs. Increase the cooldown timer and rework spirit so it becomes a stat worth having.

As it stands now the only time I take spirit into consideration is evoc swap set and if two items are exactly the same I will take the one with more spirit.

Easiest way to make spirit a desired stat for caster dps is to give it more than just regen.
X% of spirit is converted to hit/crit/damage possibly haste.

Change the percentage and what rating it applies to based on class. (e.g. warlocks damage/sta, mages hit/crit, etc) As long as the percentages are modest, you wouldn't have retool old gear.

Granted, I would like to see a new mechanic for regen in general. Would be more interesting if ducking outside the FSR or whatever mechanic they decide was a major strategy instead of an ancillary benefit from some strange rotation or encounter mechanic.

Dancing to a external tempo is fun if done correctly. AB debuff being fun, hunter auto shot being not so fun.

Just out of curiosity, how are people feeling about mana potion usage these days? I don't play a mana-using class in raids, so I don't have a good feel for it (although leveling a paladin has certainly renewed my interest in the topic). I've brought up the topic a number of times lately with friends, guildmates, and random forum-goers, and although a fair number of my friends will agree that mana potions have become an unreasonable mechanic, the general "party line" from people who I don't really know is sort of a "potions are fine and they make the game easier for me" thing.

A lot of people note that, since the material requirements were reduced, it's basically not an issue anymore for them (along with daily quests giving them plenty of money to spend on mana potions). Given that it's entirely possible to burn through 40 mana potions in a night (around 100g worth, in auction hall terms) if you're using them to their fullest, I'm not entirely convinced of this argument.

So... attempting to cast aside the casual vs. hardcore potential... is the mana potion problem effectively resolved or what?