But if you can consistently one-shot Lurker, and the trash to Hydross respawns, is it pretty easy to skip it to continue with attempts on stuff like Morogrim and FLK?
I vaguely recall the fish in the water will respawn sooner or later, so you can't "really" skip his trash consistently after a bit -- true/false?
It is easy to kill Lurker and then go on to work on Leotheras, FLK or Morogrim while skipping Hydross if for some reason you can't kill him (one of your resist tanks is missing, etc.). Once the Lurker trash and Lurker himself are dead the water is and will remain clear, allowing you to swim around freely. If the Hyross trash respawns just jump off the platform at the top of the elevator and swim around to a pipe and then run up on to one of the Lurker trash platforms. From there you have access to the Leo/FLK/Morogrim caves.
My guild was able to (extremely painfully) clear to Void Reaver before we downed HKM or Gruul. It was such a bad experience that I'm loathe to go back. It's just so much trash for one boss, whereas Magtheridon is so fast to clear to and allows us so much time to learn.
If I can kill Gruul with my raid, can I kill VR, or will it take some training?
Void Reaver is harder than Gruul. Not much so, but harder. If you can't break 8.5k, 9k raid DPS on Gruul, I wouldn't recommend even trying him.
My biggest advice for Void Reaver is to smack anyone who calls him Loot Reaver before you kill him. He's not hard, but he most certainly does not roll over and kill himself and the people who call him Loot Reaver tend to forget that. Dodge the orbs, do deeps, collect loot.
I suppose I can ninja in a question here: My guild has made progress in SSC/TK the last few weeks. Order thus far has been Lurker, Tidewalker, Magtheridon, Fathom-Lord, and Void Reaver. (Yes, seriously. We skipped Mag until after Tidewalker and it took that long to get people to take Void Reaver seriously.) We were planning to head for Hydross next, then Al'ar. (Both so that Void Reaver wasn't a depressing hour of trash and because he seems to be the easiest boss we could go for next.)
Does that seem reasonable? Also, we're still doing Gruul, but some people are whining because most of the loot's getting sharded. (We have, to date, one Dragonspine Trophy and three Legacy Defenders.) We're probably going to be dropping Gruul - a good idea?
(We raid four nights a week for about three hours a night, except Fridays, where we raid four.)
We did Gruul until most of our melee had a DST and a couple hunters. Its a very powerful trinket and the best in the game for rogues even with all the nerfs in the next patch. Highly advised to squeeze Gruul into your schedule for your melee DPS to get DST.
Yes, you can just clear Hydross trash, then half of Lurker trash and you'll have the choice of going left for Leo and FLK or go right through Morogrims room to get to FLK. Not advisable though, Lurker is much easier than Leo & FLK.
Not advisable though, Lurker is much easier than Leo & FLK.
You may say that, but....
Tonight we one-shot Hydross, and two-shot Leotheras (our first kill after a few learning nights). Lurker took 5 attempts due to sheep resists and similar random cruft .
Tonight we one-shot Hydross, and two-shot Leotheras (our first kill after a few learning nights). Lurker took 5 attempts due to sheep resists and similar random cruft .
How do you 2-shot Leotheras?
Is your guild up-and-coming? How long do you raid a night? Same group members?
What are "learning nights" and how does that work with "one-shot" and "two-shotting" a boss?
I have a sneaking suspicion that Blizzard buffed Void Reaver (insert "omg Gruul Deep Breathing more" joke here) in that you can no longer avoid the knockbacks making him much more challenging and requiring more threat control.
Not sure if it is correct or anything. He's still easy enough with this change but goes from being a pushover to something relativly challenging and dangerous to high threat DPS.
Just wondering, but can Lurker be skipped as well? is it possible to go straight to leo/FLK?
As someone else mentioned, you can skip Lurker using waterwalking (you don't need noggenfogger if you walk down a pipe). However, Lurker is really the easiest boss in the instance and I'd say he's not worth the hassle of skipping.
I dont quite understand why you would want to skip lurker. He is one of the if not the easiest boss in SSC and he drops some very nice pieces for various classes. You do not benefit from skipping him in anyways that I can see.
How do you 2-shot Leotheras? Is your guild up-and-coming? How long do you raid a night? Same group members?
What are "learning nights" and how does that work with "one-shot" and "two-shotting" a boss?
First up, I should say I'm currently still on trial with the group, so I don't speak for them in any official capacity.
1) You two-shot a boss by killing it on the second pull of the evening. You one-shot it by killing it on the first pull. Learning nights are when you go and practice on a boss you haven't killed yet. Surely this is all conventional terminology?
2) You could say "up-and-coming". Actually, we're 4th in Alliance progression (6th overall), on a slightly above average server (Earthen Ring is 97 / 234 in EU according to Wowjutsu).
3) The group raids for 5 hours, three days a week (Fri-Sun). There are also Kara/Gruul/Magtheridon farm runs on Mon/Tues (3.5 hours each). Looks like Kara will be dropped soon.
4) Variable group composition and attendance. Minimum attendance requirement is 25%, though there are noises about raising that to 33% or so. That said, there's a core of 15 or so with 75% attendance, which gives some stability. Total roster is about 50, which means the average attendance is 50%.
If the above numbers for attendance / hours per week surprise you, you really didn't read the thread title :-)
I'll also reiterate that the above constitutes well above average progression on an above average server. And if that surprises you, you haven't been paying attention to "the average raider" threads, or looking at wowjutsu.
First up, I should say I'm currently still on trial with the group, so I don't speak for them in any official capacity.
1) You two-shot a boss by killing it on the second pull of the evening. You one-shot it by killing it on the first pull. Learning nights are when you go and practice on a boss you haven't killed yet. Surely this is all conventional terminology?
2) You could say "up-and-coming". Actually, we're 4th in Alliance progression (6th overall), on a slightly above average server (Earthen Ring is 97 / 234 in EU according to Wowjutsu).
3) The group raids for 5 hours, three days a week (Fri-Sun). There are also Kara/Gruul/Magtheridon farm runs on Mon/Tues (3.5 hours each). Looks like Kara will be dropped soon.
4) Variable group composition and attendance. Minimum attendance requirement is 25%, though there are noises about raising that to 33% or so. That said, there's a core of 15 or so with 75% attendance, which gives some stability. Total roster is about 50, which means the average attendance is 50%.
If the above numbers for attendance / hours per week surprise you, you really didn't read the thread title :-)
I'll also reiterate that the above constitutes well above average progression on an above average server. And if that surprises you, you haven't been paying attention to "the average raider" threads, or looking at wowjutsu.
Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't aware those were conventional terms. 1 or 2-shotting a boss to me sounds like stuff that happened in Karazhan (ex. wipe once on attumen, kill him 2nd time). If you have learning nights - are you not actively trying to kill the boss then? Or does that mean attempts where consumables are not used?
Not trying to be confrontational here. I'm trying to gauge how much exposure time various guild have to a boss before they finally kill him. It seems to take us about 15 hours (time outside of trash clears) to kill a boss. We raid 3.5hrs a night, which I think is turning out to be suboptimal because the last hour of raiding results in respawns and who spends 1hr clearing trash to get maybe 1 more attempt in at the end of the night? Maybe 4-5hrs really is the ideal timeframe to raid.
Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't aware those were conventional terms. 1 or 2-shotting a boss to me sounds like stuff that happened in Karazhan (ex. wipe once on attumen, kill him 2nd time). If you have learning nights - are you not actively trying to kill the boss then? Or does that mean attempts where consumables are not used?
Oh no, learning nights you do pretty much the same as you do any night in terms of consumables, and you're actively trying your best. It's just nice to say you one-shot a boss if you kill him on the first pull of the night. You conveniently forget about the 20 wipes you've had over the last few days >.<
Also, it's a measure of trash timers, as you say. Depending on the length of trash leading up to a boss, how fast the wipes are, and how good your group is at wipe recovery, you can get anything from 3-10 boss attempts per respawn timer.
I've only just been accepted for the group, so it's way too early to talk averages, but here's a specific example. We just killed Karathress for the first time today. Kill was on the 6th pull of the day, just before respawns started. They'd had a full session's practice yesterday (two respawn timers), and some test pulls the previous week when we didn't have a FR tank available for Leo. So, something like 5 hours' practice time on the boss to go from first pull to first kill. Leotheras took a bit longer in real time terms, but part of that is down to being restricted to only the tanks that have the full FR gear available.
Another issue with TBC seems to be difficulty moving from "first kill" to "farm status". They first killed Hydross over a month ago, but he can still be problematic some nights. That's why one-shotting him this week was a significant milestone - it means the encounter's coming under full control, and gives up significantly more practice time on new bosses. That was another reason that it took a while to get Leo down - if you don't nail Hydross on the first day of the week, you have to take the time to kill him on the second raid day, which leaves you with less learning time on Leo.
Originally Posted by afhouston
Not trying to be confrontational here. I'm trying to gauge how much exposure time various guild have to a boss before they finally kill him. It seems to take us about 15 hours (time outside of trash clears) to kill a boss. We raid 3.5hrs a night, which I think is turning out to be suboptimal because the last hour of raiding results in respawns and who spends 1hr clearing trash to get maybe 1 more attempt in at the end of the night? Maybe 4-5hrs really is the ideal timeframe to raid.
Aye - with a 2hr respawn timer, raids work best in multiples of 2hrs, plus an extra 45 minutes for the first clear. So, 2h45m or 4h45m. An intermediate length of raid just means you clear more trash and don't get face time with the bosses. Note that flask timers are also 2hrs.
Another issue with TBC seems to be difficulty moving from "first kill" to "farm status".
This is something that is a result of the fights being fairly execution tight. We were one/two-shotting Hydross weekly in about 6.5-7mins, but then recently we turned over a couple core members, and suddenly we're wiping a lot on him and beating him just before enrage. Swapping out people is a lot more noticeable with a 25 man raid than a 40 man raid.
Edit: As far as timing raids goes, we like to time it so we're at the first boss by 8 (starting at around 7;20-7:35). Around 10 o'clock, we evaluate where we are, clear trash to the next boss if necessary, then take a 5-10min break so peeps can step away from their monitor for drinks etc. Then finish off the raid night.
4) Variable group composition and attendance. Minimum attendance requirement is 25%, though there are noises about raising that to 33% or so. That said, there's a core of 15 or so with 75% attendance, which gives some stability. Total roster is about 50, which means the average attendance is 50%.
Originally Posted by songster
Another issue with TBC seems to be difficulty moving from "first kill" to "farm status". They first killed Hydross over a month ago, but he can still be problematic some nights.
These two things go hand-in-hand. If on any given raid night, half of your raiders only raid once per week, there is wide variance in their actual ability to execute the fight.
For example, the easiest way to wipe on Hydross is to have a DoT ticking during the transition and have that caster be standing on the wrong side of the line. It's easy to solve this, of course-- either don't use DoTs toward the end or make sure you're positioned on the other side of the line before the transition starts. But it only takes one new raider who doesn't do this to cause a wipe.
What is the recommended method of skipping Hydross and going to Lurker?
Last night we cleared the first few packs of Hydross trash, lev/bubble/water walked to the lurker platforms, then cleared them, jumped down to lurker, and kept a ss/di/shaman to rez after each wipe.
Is it possible to clear to Hydross, then get past him without agro and go to the Lurker platforms? It seems like just a couple more packs, and then we would not be running the risk of everyone dying without a rez, and summoning back to lurker for the people who got spouted.
Finally, is rez bugged in SSC? One of our warlocks could not be rezzed all night, had to run back each time.
You skip Hydross by simply running past him. No tricks.
We clear the Hydross trash, then just have everyone pun around on the outside of his platform to the bridge to the 6 pumping stations for lurker. It is possible to do this without pulling any of the elementals that patrol past Hydross, although someone always does. They're soloable, so it doesn't matter. Just move to the bridge to fight them.
Then continue trash clearing untill the water boils, and start fishing.
Is it possible to clear to Hydross, then get past him without agro and go to the Lurker platforms? It seems like just a couple more packs, and then we would not be running the risk of everyone dying without a rez, and summoning back to lurker for the people who got spouted.
Yes it is and we did so when learning Lurker before Hydross.
Just have to stay away from Hydross as far as possible.
09/07/07, 4:17 PM
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