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Old 06/23/07, 2:43 AM   #1
duran
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Mannoroth
Movement impairing resistance

I currently have the hunter talent surefooted (3/3) which "increases the chance movement impairing effects will be resisted by 15%". I also have the surefooted boot enchant which gives "5% snare and root resistance". On top of all of this I also have an enigmatic skyfire diamond which gives "5% Snare and Root Resist" in my meta slot.

I am wondering whether they stack multiplicatively, additively or just plain don't stack.

My personal experience with this is that all of this does indeed stack in some way, but I am unsure of how much each item/talent is contributing.

Last edited by duran : 06/23/07 at 2:55 AM.
 
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Old 06/23/07, 9:12 AM   #2
sp00n
Bald Bull
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Wrathbringer (EU)
Hm, I don't know, but it would certainly be interesting.
Maybe get a warrior do spamstring on you and count the resists.

I don't remember anybody did test this already.

 
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Old 06/23/07, 5:08 PM   #3
Myul
Don Flamenco
 
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Dwarf Hunter
 
Eredar (EU)
There was no discussion about this allready.
But testing it should be simply, using an enemy fractioned warrior (or hunter) and a assigned friendly ealer to you. Let him attack you from behind 500 times with hamstring (wingclip), prase the combatlog and post the result and your conclusion.
 
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Old 06/24/07, 4:25 PM   #4
Zzbzq
Banned
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mannoroth
Originally Posted by Myul View Post
There was no discussion about this allready.
But testing it should be simply, using an enemy fractioned warrior (or hunter) and a assigned friendly ealer to you. Let him attack you from behind 500 times with hamstring (wingclip), prase the combatlog and post the result and your conclusion.
You're inebriated.

And you don't need an enemy warrior, unless there's some sekrit anti-dueling mechanic I don't know about. You can just duel your own faction. If you're worried about taking too much damage, be a healer, or have the warrior equip a level 1 grey weapon from a vendor.
 
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Old 06/24/07, 5:39 PM   #5
vorda
Bald Bull
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Jaedenar (EU)
And you don't need an enemy warrior, unless there's some sekrit anti-dueling mechanic I don't know about. You can just duel your own faction. If you're worried about taking too much damage, be a healer, or have the warrior equip a level 1 grey weapon from a vendor.
Surefooted: hunter talent. The more damage the warrior does, the more rage he gets, the more hamstrings he can do.
 
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Old 06/24/07, 6:31 PM   #6
 Maniq
Unregistered is awesome.
 
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Tauren Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Zzbzq View Post
You're inebriated.

And you don't need an enemy warrior, unless there's some sekrit anti-dueling mechanic I don't know about. You can just duel your own faction. If you're worried about taking too much damage, be a healer, or have the warrior equip a level 1 grey weapon from a vendor.
This is what you come back with after your week off?

Wow, some people don't take the hint.
 
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Old 06/25/07, 6:39 AM   #7
moowalk
Piston Honda
 
Undead Priest
 
Blackrock
Originally Posted by Maniq View Post
This is what you come back with after your week off?

Wow, some people don't take the hint.
At least he didn't say 'your inebriated'. Although I thought sekrit was something to do with india. Hmmm
 
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Old 06/25/07, 10:20 AM   #8
snape
Great Tiger
 
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Human Mage
 
Destromath
Whenever a poster seems to have spelling/grammar problems, etc. I check the server. The poster is (EU), so I just let it slide. Come on now, I'm actually interested in this mechanic.
 
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Old 06/25/07, 10:28 AM   #9
Enova
King Hippo
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Moonglade (EU)
Originally Posted by snape View Post
Whenever a poster seems to have spelling/grammar problems, etc. I check the server. The poster is (EU), so I just let it slide. Come on now, I'm actually interested in this mechanic.
As am i, but i'm not going to go out of my way respeccing to survival again, getting surefooted enchant and the metagem. Therefore, i'll wait it out and check if my assumptions are proven or dismissed...

But basically, i think they either all stack additively, or the enchant and gem do anyway, with surefooted stacking multiplicatively to the sum of the two... Would be nice to see someone do the numbers, though, since i totally screw up at numbers

Originally Posted by XI- View Post
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
Originally Posted by Kaubel View Post
You people are idiots
Guilty as charged ^
 
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Old 06/25/07, 10:30 AM   #10
snape
Great Tiger
 
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Human Mage
 
Destromath
Equip a different pair of boots and helm - and eat the respec cost? =( We're talking a maximum of 100g here.
 
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Old 06/26/07, 12:43 AM   #11
Xavias
Piston Honda
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Korgath
My uneducated guess is that they stack additively, like mount speed effects. It seems like the general trends with small % chance procs. (stun resist too)

I don't think they would be multiplactive, as using surefooted/metagem would offer a severely under-powered effect (<1%) if you have surefooted talent.
 
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Old 06/26/07, 5:09 AM   #12
sp00n
Bald Bull
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Wrathbringer (EU)
Originally Posted by Xavias View Post
I don't think they would be multiplactive, as using surefooted/metagem would offer a severely under-powered effect (<1%) if you have surefooted talent.
Well the difference is 0.75% between additive and multiplicative, but remember this is just for a 5% enchant. Add another 5% (surefooted talent + surefooted enchant + metagem) and you're looking at 1.79%.
And now imagine we wouldn't talking about root resists but DPS increases.

// Edit
Altough I admit testing a 1.79% variance isn't exactly easy.

Last edited by sp00n : 06/26/07 at 5:16 AM.

 
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Old 06/26/07, 1:46 PM   #13
Aod_Macabre
Von Kaiser
 
Human Paladin
 
Mannoroth
Why not try a continual judging of Seal of Justice on you from a Paladin in a duel? It is considered a movement impairing effect since it clears all run buffs you might have. So put on pack Aylin and have Darkhammer chain judge you (or get a ret Paladin to do it since Judgment's cooldown would be less).

If JoJ cannot be resisted, then I guess this post can be heaped. I was just trying to add in a different angle to the topic.
 
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Old 06/26/07, 1:56 PM   #14
Bibdy
Great Tiger
 
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Bonechewer
JoJ doesn't snare, it just nullifies any capacity to increase your speed over 100%.

There's always free cheese in the mouse traps, but the mice there ain't happy.
 
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Old 06/26/07, 2:00 PM   #15
Aod_Macabre
Von Kaiser
 
Human Paladin
 
Mannoroth
Originally Posted by Bibdy View Post
JoJ doesn't snare, it just nullifies any capacity to increase your speed over 100%.
Right, but he was talking about movement impairing too. So could it not be used when he has pack on to see if it increases the amount of resists (if it can be at all) against JoJ?

EDIT: Hmm I now see that the gems and enchants don't offer any resistance to impairing effects, so I guess my point is moot. Apologies.
 
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Old 06/26/07, 3:15 PM   #16
Tower
King Hippo
 
Undead Rogue
 
Blackhand
It stacks additively, for all of season 1 I ran Surefooted+Fleetfooted+Meta Gem, it's really great for PvP as all those snare resists turn into frost resist as well.
 
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Old 06/26/07, 3:36 PM   #17
Mordinm
Piston Honda
 
Orc Shaman
 
Ner'zhul
Originally Posted by Aod_Macabre View Post
Right, but he was talking about movement impairing too. So could it not be used when he has pack on to see if it increases the amount of resists (if it can be at all) against JoJ?

EDIT: Hmm I now see that the gems and enchants don't offer any resistance to impairing effects, so I guess my point is moot. Apologies.
As a side note Judgement of Justice is not a movement impairing effect. Druids made a fuss about it not being removed by shifting a while back. We were informed that dispite the fact that the judgement's only purpose is to impair your movement it is not a "Movement Impairing Effect".
 
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Old 06/26/07, 3:56 PM   #18
Zraknul
Great Tiger
 
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by Mordinm View Post
As a side note Judgement of Justice is not a movement impairing effect. Druids made a fuss about it not being removed by shifting a while back. We were informed that dispite the fact that the judgement's only purpose is to impair your movement it is not a "Movement Impairing Effect".
It wouldn't have been surprised if it was called a "Move speed buff impairing effect" since no player moves faster than 100% by default.

The easiest testing method would probably just be a hunter spamming rank 1 wing clip with a low damage weapon.
 
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Old 06/26/07, 4:24 PM   #19
Hevanus
Piston Honda
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Eldre'Thalas
Originally Posted by Zraknul View Post
It wouldn't have been surprised if it was called a "Move speed buff impairing effect" since no player moves faster than 100% by default.

The easiest testing method would probably just be a hunter spamming rank 1 wing clip with a low damage weapon.
I'm pretty sure that Wing Clip doesn't factor in weapon damage, but rather deals a fixed amount - most likely to prevent the player from applying it to a CC'd target.
 
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Old 06/26/07, 5:25 PM   #20
 Shalas
Bald Bull
 
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Undead Priest
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Hevanus View Post
I'm pretty sure that Wing Clip doesn't factor in weapon damage, but rather deals a fixed amount - most likely to prevent the player from applying it to a CC'd target.
Unless you've found a zero damage weapon and managed to get 0 AP, I'm not sure how wing clip doing damage based on your weapon would let you use it on CC'd targets.

For the purpose of testing Rank 1 Wing Clip is only 5 damage, though.
 
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Old 06/26/07, 9:34 PM   #21
tunah
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Mage
 
Eldre'Thalas
Wing clip shouldn't be a 'damage' attack, but should break cc -> it has a small damage value that doesn't scale.
 
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Old 06/26/07, 10:11 PM   #22
sovelis41
speaks French...in Russian.
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Zul'Jin
Originally Posted by Shalas View Post
Unless you've found a zero damage weapon and managed to get 0 AP, I'm not sure how wing clip doing damage based on your weapon would let you use it on CC'd targets.

For the purpose of testing Rank 1 Wing Clip is only 5 damage, though.
I think his main point was simply that they threw on a fixed amount of damage just to prevent using it on CC and didn't bother going any further with it. Not that scaled or unscaled would make it better or worse.

Edit: However i do use concussion shot right before trap breaks sometimes if i know i'm running against my trap cooldown. It won't break the trap
 
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Old 06/27/07, 5:04 PM   #23
duran
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Mannoroth
As I was about to log out today someone from these forums jumped me and asked me to help test the numbers. So we got another hunter to spam wing clip on me with all of my movement resistance stuff on. The numbers we came up with were 61 resists out of 222 wing cilps = ~27%

This is purely based on human observation of whether the wing clip debuff timer reset or not after each wing clip. The number of observations is a bit lower than I'd like but I had to go after a few tests. Still this initial test seems to show that all of these items and the talent do indeed stack additively.

Combat logs do not show resists of slowing effects. They do show resists of talent based snare effects like improved wing clip, however these were ignored for the test.

If anyone can think of a more scientific manner in which to test this please feel free do some more testing.
 
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Old 06/27/07, 5:06 PM   #24
Dominick
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Dethecus
Originally Posted by Aod_Macabre View Post
Why not try a continual judging of Seal of Justice on you from a Paladin in a duel? It is considered a movement impairing effect ...
JoJ says right on the tooltip that it's not considered a movement impairing effect. It's why it isn't cleared when a druid shifts.

And yeah, duel a warrior and parse it.
Edit: If it doesn't show resists, you could come up with some kind of script to check if "You are affected by Hamstring" show up after "Hamstring hits you for XX" and see how many times it doesn't (i.e. is resisted).
 
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