alkis

Since the thread was closed I am opening another one because I didn't actually explain the question as well as I should so the intended question remained unanswered.

I will try a better example this time that shows the subtle issue more clearly:

Tank1 100 threat (has agro)
Tank2 100 threat
Ranged 129 threat

Knockback on Tank1 (say 0.75 multiplier). After the knockback:

Tank1 75 threat
Tank2 100 threat (133% compared to Tank1)
Ranged 129 threat (172% compared to Tank1)

After the knockback the threat threshold for melee is 82.5 and for ranged 97.5.

Tank2 exceeds the melee threshold by 21%
Ranged exceeds the ranged threshold by 32%

So the question comes down to: how does the agro switching logic work? Does it try to find the one in melee range that exceeded the threshold the most? If so then Tank2 gets agro. Or does it try to find the one in the whole threat table that exceeded the threshold the most (whatever that threshold is depending on his range to the mob)? In this case Ranged gets agro.

Kier's reply to the previous thread seems to suggest the former case, but I don't think he really got the question, mostly due to my fault failing to explain the question properly. Or maybe he did.. who knows? :-)

 

• Arawethion

I'm pretty sure the mob will run to the ranged.

Answers to Moonkin questions:
0) Read the TTT/use the spreadsheet: http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t66856-moonkin_pve_dps/
1) Maintain high DoT uptime. Use WiseEclipse.
2) Nothing beats 2T8.
3) Yes, sometimes you cast many Wraths and no Eclipse procs. Deal with it.

 

Rajni

As Maniq quoted in the other thread.

Ie. In this case, aggro will transfer to the second tank, as the ranged person's threat is not 30% over theirs, but the second tank's threat is more than 10% over the primary tank's.


Edit: Ah, my mistake there. Misinterpreted the quote, disregard the above.

Edit2: Ok, so apparently it does work like this, providing the second tank performs an aggressive action (ie attack/ability) on the boss before it leaves their melee range.

 

RK

It will run to the ranged. Mobs do not have some magic attraction to melee, as any warlock who raided in 1.x can tell you.

At the moment of the threat reduction, it will go to the highest threat person out of all the people who are at least 10% over the current target's threat and in melee range of the mob and people who are at least 30% over the current target's threat and not in melee range of the mob.

In your example, "Tank2" and "Ranged" are both over the aggro threshold after knockback, and Ranged has higher aggro, so Ranged gets aggro and gets mocked for not keeping his threat below that of Tank2, which in this era of threat-meters is a pretty bone-headed move.

 

Lycur

This doesn't match my experience at all. I can say, empirically but with some confidence, that I've definitely been well over the threat of a player in melee range when a tank died and had the mob still go the melee player.

Edit: fortunately this isn't too hard to test, since all that's required to simulate the aggro drop is having the person with aggro die (or fade/feign death/soulshatter etc if you're feeling cissy).

 

Darkmgl

I've noticed one other interesting thing, if I get knocked back so the 130% rule applies and someone in melee range gains aggro, I will not regain that aggro until I do something aggressive to the creature. If I just run back and sit next to him, he will continue pounding the other person's face until I do anything that generates aggro while standing next to the mob.

Example:

I'm at 125 threat
Rogue is at 100
Ranged is at 60

I get knocked back, he turns to rogue; I get back into range while rogue stops attacking and gains no more aggro. The mob will not turn back until I do something aggressive, even though I'm at 110% of the rogue.

I agree with Lycur too from my personal experiences, but I would imagine the same rule I'm experiencing applies to the melee player. I would in this example:

Me 125 threat
Rogue 110 threat
Ranged 130 threat

I die, the mob will aggro towards the ranged as they are the highest threat BUT if the rogue performs an aggressive action on the mob before he gets into melee range of the person with 130 threat, he will turn and immediately begin attacking the rogue instead.

On that same note it really really sucks on Vashj when I get rooted and she decides to go stand next to a mage or shadow priest, as if they perform an aggressive action (dot tick) while in melee and I'm not 130% over them, she turns and gibs them. Not usually an issue, but it has happened on some bad runs.

 

◊ vpolden

At least in my experience from f.e. Void Reaver, it will go to tank #2. On a few occasions we had KTM looking like this:

#1 Ranged DPS
#2 Tank 1 (me)
#3 Tank 2

I got a knockback and Tank 2 got aggro. I'm not 100% sure this goes for all situations but I'm fairly certain that it's the "normal behavior".

 

Hoonboof

You can be over the threat limit after a knockback so long as you don't damage or use any threat building abilities after the knockback. The same counts for melee.

I don't have any theorycrafted proof for you but I've seen it happen a before and I'm sure a few other tanks have too.

:goon2:

 

Phoenix

IIRC Blizzard put in that functionality ages ago in Naxx to prevent ranged getting gibbed as they ran past Thaddius and into melee range.

 

◊ Quigon

I've noticed a lot of mobs (especially bosses) ignore the 10 and 30% rules and just eat anyone who pass me by even 1 point of aggro if they stay there for longer than a few moments.

 

Tehehe

This is generally explained to be because of the mob's secondary target abilities. When a mob de-targets the tank and targets another player player to use a secondary ability on, it will then go back to the person with most threat (say a rogue who was at 105% of the previous tank).

This makes (some) sense, though I am not sure if it is completely accurate.

 

◊ manly

While somewhat not answering your question, maybe simply making sure your ranged don't go at/over 90% of the MT threat on knockback mobs is the answer ?

 

talzar

Like others have said, the mob will go to the first person that performs a hostile act (either tank2 or ranged).

If tank2 does something hostile first he would keep the aggro because ranged was not 30% higher than tank2.

The deaggro mechanics were nice back during Gluth with his mortal wound / fear mechanics. We used to have our MT stay way high on threat and the OT stay over 10% under him so when the MT would get feared and the OT would take over the MT would just not doing anything until mortal wound was about to wear off. Then he would go back in and Gluth would switch right back to him since he was over 10% higher than the OT.

Another thing that's helpful is fights like Maulgar. When I tank Olm often times I will get deatch coiled and Olm will start running across the room after the MT healers. When deathcoil wears off I just commanding shout myself and he turns around and comes back at me. Lots of tanks don't understand that and will try to chase mobs down (which is impossible with how fast lots of mobs run). When all you have to do is commanding shout to get them to revaluate your position on the aggro list and come back after you.

 

snape

Do you have to drop Commanding Shout in your buff list and re-"cast" it? Or is simple refreshing of it enough?

 

• Valoran

Refreshing is enough. Any single act of global threat is enough to "bump" the mob into remembering you're on top of the aggro chart and to waltz over and smack you again.

 

• Jamor

Yeah, fear mechanics work exactly the same way. I noticed it on Nightbane when I missed a fear break. Until I did something that caused 1 or more threat, He would attack and kill everyone else.