niska

We've just recently made it into BT/Hyjal and I was wondering if anyone had thoughts on a progression kill order between the two zones. I don't know first hand, but it seems like is some latitude in kill order past Supremus in BT and there is always the option of pushing in Hyjal, where 8 waves per attempt probably dampens the learning curve. What has your experience been so far?

 

Demi9OD

Difficulty starts to ramp up in BT at Teron/Bloodboil, and in Hyjal at Azgalor. With some practice Hyjal is pretty easy up to Kazrogal, and you should be able to kill Shade of Akama without too much practice. That said, wiping to bosses in Hyjal is still depressing, because it means another 20 minutes of pretty hard focus with 0 reward (really, how hard would it have been to add trash rep) just to get another shot, and I wouldn't recommend doing it multiple nights in a row.

 

◊ Docjowles

If it's any consolation, they are going to add trash rep and drops in "a future patch". Note that when he says "even later", this was posted before 2.1.2 came out, so it's closer than it sounds.

Source

 

◊ Praetorian

Doing BT through Shade of Akama is pretty much mandatory and you'd be insane not to. After that, your options diverge, and there really is no "right" answer. The Hyjal bosses up to Azgalor are objectively easier than Teron, Gurtogg, and certainly Reliquary. Personally I'd say (Reliquary > Gurtogg > Azgalor > Teron > Anetheron > Kaz'Rogal). So the trash becomes the determining factor. Learning the trash waves is half the battle in Hyjal, and it's not very rewarding. It can be kind of fun though if you look at it like Gothik back in Naxx -- it's really pretty different from other encounters and requires good coordination and communication. The inevitable process of learning the trash, seeing the boss for the first time, wiping because you didn't quite understand one or two things he did, reclearing the trash, etc., isn't the greatest thing in the world.

Hyjal is quite rewarding once learned, though. It's a quicker and surer route to collecting your first Tier 6 pieces than BT, at least.

What we did was clear BT up to Reliquary, and then when faced with the choice of wiping to a technically challenging boss and reclearing a gauntlet (albeit a short one) every time, or reclearing trash to learn Hyjal for more/better loot, we opted for the latter. Two raid sessions in Hyjal has us at Archimonde, and we'll go back for Reliquary once he dies (should be tonight).

Personally, I'd suggest doing BT through Teron, then if you have tons of healers around work on Gurtogg, and if you don't on a given night, work on Hyjal. Always best to have options.

 

◊ Praetorian

I read this as "in 2.2" and given that we still have no clue what Patch 2.2 is going to entail, that still seems like a ways off.

 

Hiba

We have 5 bosses at BT down and 2 at Hyjal, and we will be focusing our progress raids to Hyjal until it's cleared. It really seems much better risk/reward than RoS, tier6 parts are tempting for almost everyone. Also, getting Hyjal on farm would be nice supply of epix with small amount of time.

Lightwell object increased in size to make it easier to click.

 

Lila

Obviously you start with Rage Winterchill. From there on I would go Naj'entus, Supremus and Shade of Akama in Black Temple. Then move to Mount Hyjal for Anetheron at least. Maybe Kaz'rogal as well, but it's advisable to use shadow resistance for him and you might need a another week in Black Temple to get enough Heart of Darkness for that.

Teron Gorefiend and Gurtogg Bloodboil in Black Temple and Azgalor in Mount Hyjal are pretty equal in difficulty. Different guilds will probably struggle with different fights, depending on what their strengths and weaknesses are.

Once you get Azgalor down you should start attempting Archimonde. He really isn't that hard, you just need a bit of time to learn how to survive his abilities. He is definately less complex than Reliquary of Souls. From that point on you have only one way to go; Mother Shahraz, Illidari Council and Illidan Stormrage.

 

◊ Praetorian

Huh, this is the second time I've seen this, and using SR never really occurred to me. We just wore normal gear, wiped once the first time we saw him because we didn't really know anything about him and we wasted like 40 seconds peeling him off mobs on which he'd aggroed and trying to decide where to position him. By the time we realized that it's a tightly timed fight, it was too late. We killed him on the next pull, and again yesterday, with no SR and plenty of time/mana to spare at the end. I don't think you really need SR gear and I wouldn't worry about doing BT for SR gear before progressing in Hyjal.

 

Schneeb

For us BT has been mostly about tactics and personal perfromances.

Hyjal the first two bosses check you should be there and the next two reinforce that with dps checks; then archimonde gives you freeloot for being able to click on pvp trinkets/major fire pots/slow fall.
We first ventured into Hyjal when the waves took longer than kiting thunderan to orgrimmar so now its seems alot better, in the horde base its certainly more varied.

Theres nothing in Hyjal that has you making and re-making your tactic like a certain 6 armed mother figure.

 

Hiba

I'm a bit curious how much guilds actually use shadow resistance at Kaz'Rogal?

Edit: Slow typing, Gurg answered already.

Lightwell object increased in size to make it easier to click.

 

• Snowy

Yeah, never considered using SR at Kaz'Rogal... seemed to be a simple DPS check fight that any guild who should be there should be able to kill him. Rage/Anetheron are tactical fights, Kaz/Azgalor are DPS checks. Archimonde reverts back to being a tactical fight.

One thing to consider about Hyjal is if your guild sucks at learning trash then you probably want to go easy on doing it. The other thing you'll want to do is carefully make note of what each wave entails, and plan accordingly. This isn't trash that you just zerg, in particular, the Orc camps have your raid being split at times, doing a variety of things. It's actually pretty nice once you get the hang of it.

I feel that Hyjal and BT up to Reliquary really do exist in parallel. Try both, see which seems better suited for your guild. Keep in mind you WILL hit a brick wall at Mother Shahraz until you get the requisite SR gear crafted.

 

Dawme

We don't use SR on Kaz'Rogal, but we definitely use it on Azgalor. 200 sr on all healers pretty much guarantees you will have 3-4 healers resisting the silence and it helps much considering Azgalor hits like a truck. We wiped 2 hours on him without sr (tank dead during a silence) and killed him in like 3 attempts after crafting bt cloak+legs for every healer. However, we don't have many hots available in our classic lineup (like 1 druid and 1 priest max) so it might explain that. Anyways, fight is so short, mana shouldn't be an issue so it's very worth giving up a bit of healing power for 50% resist silence in my opinion.

 

Lila

Well, we found Kaz'rogal easier with shadow resistance. Some tried shadow resistance on Azgalor but didn't notice that much of an increase in resisted silences. We just loaded the tank up with HoTs.

 

Benita

Granted hes not the hardest endboss of them all, but with pretty much 0 room for failure on the clicking part and alot of healing needed to be kept up, id hardly say its "freeloot".

Maybe we sucked, but we found him definetly more challenging than Teron for example (which noone referred to yet as free loot).

 

◊ manly

Although Teron *is free loot as long as your first 'sacrifice' completes perfectly his kiting/killing of ghosts. Then that player can go and help others on their ghost and it becomes trivial.

 

Edgewalker

I'd say free loot so long as you don't get 2+ failures (people who let more than 1 ghost by) in a row. You can still wipe past the first Shadow, but it just becomes a lot harder. Not really luck based in the sense that it can't be avoided by bringing good people, but luck based in the sense that most average sized raiding guilds will be forced to bring a couple of people with the coordination of a 1 flippered Walrus.

 

◊ Praetorian

There's also the ever-popular "bring 6 healers to Teron and get resto shaman/priest/priest as three consecutive Shadows after an otherwise-promising start" option.

 

Schneeb

All the people wearing sr to avoid silence, do none of your paladins have improved conc aura?

The silence wasn't really ever close to killing our tank Oo

ps. cant believe you spent hearts on the legs!

 

DarKNecross

We should've had Azgalor Monday night, however Thrall's apparently a pyro and can't stay out of the RoF so he dies at 3%. The silence shouldn't be killing your tanks. I would probably reccomend bringing two resto druids for swiftmend at the end- just in case.

For Kaz'rogal, I use SR Aura/Karabor Neck/SR Cloak for 165 resist. I've resisted 5 out of 6 mana drains before. Spamming mana pots and keeping JoW on the boss should be enough for almost anyone. One thing we did was use most of the heroisms on the Melee groups, since 40% cast speed increase would just make casting DPS at a higher risk for detonation. High DPS and people who know how to conserve mana is the trick - nobody should blow up unless it's after the enrage (although I did get hit by a Warlock last night.. go figure).

http://crimson-guild.com

 

Zwink

BT up to reliquary and Hyjal are approximately the same difficulty. I'd recommend killing Shade of Akama in BT and then it's up to you where you go. Gurtogg and Teron Gorefiend are both much easier with a lot of healers. All of Hyjal can be done light on healing, although we did use 9 for our first Archimonde kill. If you've been wiping to Teron Gorefiend, Gurtogg, or Reliquary of Souls and don't have Archimonde dead, I'd reccomend giving Hyjal a go.

http://vodka-guild.com

 

Bokchoy

I like this order:

Rage Winterchill -> Anetheron -> HWL Naj'entus -> Supremus -> Shade of Akama -> Teron Gorefiend -> Kaz'rogal -> Azgalor -> Archimonde -> Gurtogg Bloodboil -> Reliquary of Souls -> Mother Shahraz -> Illidari Council -> Illidan Stormrage

 

Renew

Looks good. Rage and Anetheron should be doable your first night in there (depending on how long you raid I would assume Kazzak 3.0 could be added in there as well).

HWL -> Shade is also doable in one night depending on how long you raid and read up on things.

Gorefiend isn't too hard, but requires people to have Bar Mods that play nice (might be the new in combat change and older bar mods). We had quite a few people have to resort to playing with binds only during our first night on him. He seems fairly simple though if you have good healers and aren't unlucky with who he chooses.

That's where we are at at the moment so I cannot say much after that, but I would assume from reading up on things that everything else falls in order.

Confidence is not Arrogance.

 

Rydaa

What my guild did, which is probably alot different than most, since our first Kael kill happened like at 1 am the night before the raid lock reset, we didnt bother going into hyjal. Thus the next raid lock we had most of the people keyed for hyjal, but of course could only get 25 keyed for BT, so we spent all our progress in hyjal.

If you can handle the trash well, it really won't take you long to clear 4/5 hyjal, as the bosses are all likely to be killed in no more than a few attempts. As for BT, can't really comment since what I just mentioned was last week, and we haven't been in there yet.

 

skz

I'd suggest going Rage -> Anetheron -> Kaz'Rogal -> Azgalor first personally, once you have the trash down the fights are very straightforward and you should be able to kill those four bosses in 2 nights (Rage/Anetheron one night and Kaz/Azgalor the next). However, as it was previously stated Najentus -> Supremus -> Akama is also about a one night affair, so in 3-4 nights of learning you should be 7 bosses or so deep into T6 content. Either route is fine, I only suggest going through Hyjal first because once you get at Archimonde he should go down within a few nights of attempts. It's really up to your guild I suppose.

 

Egel

Since the mana drain is what makes the fight hard, maybe using shadow resist gear is the way to go. With only 165 I guess you got lucky but with capped mother gear you should resist a lot? Has anyone tested? I'm going to try it next time.

As for the boss order, focusing on Hyjal has the added benefit that you get to do Archimonde early which is a great fight. Mother is probably the hardest fight of all.