It depends. We're having a lot of trouble with Kaz'rogal due to shitty setup. Not enough DPS = too long fight and we go boom.

That is our tanking location. It may look like an odd place to have the raid, but there really is not a high chance of having the FA put in there due to the objects around it. You have the wall stopping it on one side and the pillar on the other. Shahraz is also in the middle of the room, which is the best way to maximise different possibly FA locations. Obviously this is what you want to achieve when you have the whole ranged camp in one spot!

With this positioning we have been able to kill it within 3 attempts each reset since our first kill. I would say 1 in 3 attempts results in a port in the raid which if occurs too early will result in a wipe. Another third of attempts will be a wipe due to gradual FA deaths or perhaps unlucky tank damage or saber lash combos, and the other third will be kills.

It may not be flawless, but I believe it is a reliable enough strategy to give repeatable kills.

Off-topic here, but any fight where you need to contort your raid behind scenery is such a sad waste of a very nice looking room. Poor fight design perhaps.

Well you don't have to position it there, it just provides you with a better chance of survival. You could just have the raid out in the open 35 yards away from the boss and kill it almost as easily. The move to the pillar was to maximise the repeatability of the kill.

Dukes: What I'm saying is I'm not really clear why teron is easier than hyjal though. Every boss in hyjal(not archimonde obv) took us less than 2 hours, as the bosskillers guides are basically directions to collecting free purples.

We spent 1 night on teron with 7 healers and came up short at around 30% a couple times due to too many shadowed healers leading to my death and/or screw ups on skeletons. Basically, theres 24 people who can totally blow the fight on Teron, where everything in hyjal is pretty much just: Do waves of trash, dps boss down before he kills you.

I suppose I could see the waves being difficult if you have more than 7 healers, but it seems like if you have a balanced raid, hyjal is just a walk in the park, and is definitely easier than Teron. Basically, hyjal is entirely about your strategy for dealing with waves and involving the npcs. Good players with bosskillers laying out the guides for you, its very simple. I could see it being harder if you didnt know the strat, but I have no qualms about reading up on the fights before we go to them, which takes most of the learning curve out of the fight. BT starting at teron on the other hand is execution checks, which means it takes a bit longer to master the fight.

As I've posted before, my guild pushed towards Archimonde before even looking at Teron and we have no regrets. The premium loot at the end of the Hyjal tunnel is far easier to reach than Illidan.

Teron is not a difficult fight for the raid. It can be slightly random if you lose healers at the beginning, but essentially you are facing the learning curve as individuals learn to play a frost mage. Some players can handle this instinctively after being instructed, but others need to practice and learn on their own. As soon as everyone has enough practice to handle their adds solo, the fight practically becomes a tank and spank.

This makes the learning curve somewhat frustrating, because there is a risk each time a player is Death'ed for his/her first time. Since Teron selects people randomly, it is entirely possible that you will still have new people selected after many attempts (depending on how fast you wipe). So, when you do wipe, encourage people who are Death'ed to go to a corner and practice.

For the above reasons, Teron is very much a "practice makes perfect" fight. You may need to put some serious time into him, depending on how lucky/skilled you are with the Deaths.

Hyjal mostly uses mechanics that individuals have already experienced, so the learning curve is much smoother. But if you happen to be banging your head against the wall on a CoT boss, there's no reason to avoid Teron to enjoy a change of pace.

I don't quite understand what makes this location better than the one EJ used. If they do the fight with 2 camps like Celebrity then there is equal chance for bad FA locations while EJ's tank position 100% negates any chance the MT gets punted. Either location there are 2 camps, no matter where those 2 camps are in the room how can one have less chance for the game to randomly pick where those camps are over the other?

We use the couch to avoid punt/lash deaths and when FA lands on the MT we wipe/reset and go again. When we were learning Mother Shahrandom we would tank in the open and the MT would intervene back down when he got punted but a few times I'm guessing it didn't pick all of the targets so the MT got chain punted then lashed in the air, this is when we said screw it and went for the angled wall until we noticed the couch. Our last kill we repositioned a few MT healers into corners/walls so they could keep heals coming on the MT even if the ranged camp had a FA placed on or near it and it seemed to work well.

I need some help for the Mount Hyjal Trash.

We've been in there for some IDs now, but I still have problems when I have to kite a ghoul or fiend to Jayna or the Tauren Warriors. Most of the times a knight, footman or the Tauren Warriors seem to taunt or at least use some aggro building ability that prevents me from getting the mob right back to the camp - I can spend as much as 80% of their health going full out and not getting aggro back at all. Are there any hints you could give me to get the npcs added without sticking the mob to some place far back behind the damage camp?

The npc's have insane threat, Just avoid kiting them into those npc's you dont want too.

I had triple the aggro of our top shadow priest and a tauren still pulled aggro off me on azgalor at 80%. Only seen it happen once but it was impressive to say the least (was doing about 1200 tps).

our hunters do have to stay on the trash for awhile, especially on the tauren, but its mostly a result of the stun. Just use your maximum threat abilities and stick with it until they let it go, or if you dont think you can get it, switch targets and strip one off a tank, since generally we dont have a lot of aggro since we're tanking 4 or 5 mobs at a time.

Basically all the trash comes down to sheeping the necros and then single targeting a couple mobs down before an aoe on the first 2 bosses. The next 2 after that we found that basically, you can target almost anything you feel like as long as someone has aggro on it in a lot of the waves, but generally you want to single target on garg/caster waves and aoe any ghouls/fiends/aboms that are remaining at the end of the wave. Taurens can easily tank any mob, just keep an eye on them if they start to tank multiple targets or work their way into the group.

For azgalor, i recommend using the tauren tank spot. As long as he doesnt RoF the tank repeatedly(melee out strategy), those guys will do a pile of damage, and its basically optimal position for the fight anyway.

Any word on if those doomguards are supposed to despawn when he dies?

For starters, always kite the Abominations. Only ever kite anything else if there are no Aboms in the wave. We have 2 hunters, one kites past thrall and one kites past Taurens, meeting up at the middle and dragging them down to the raid.

Just as the wave hits the front NPCs/tanks, shoot the abom and drag it over a pre-placed frost trap. Use every global cooldown for something, and stop to auto whenever it is slowed. Arcane, Multi, Distract, Serpent, Conc, HM, etc. I kite past Thrall and use Intimidation once I reach him to do a quick 90° turn and build even more threat while its stunned, laying a frost trap ready for a slow turn once I hit the middle road area, and take it to the raid.

pic cause im bored: http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/9...ingpathid3.jpg

if you time it right, the Abom that initially goes past taurens dies, and the one that goes past thrall is just dying by the time it reaches the raid. If not, the one with the taurens dies and the other just does a loop around the bunker if no tanks are free to taunt it.

Momma is mostly about experience, once you know the fight its going to die. Theres just a few things that can wipe you and you know it. We tank it in the middle to avoid FA's on top of her (we pretty much heal melee with seal of light so they are usually -1/2k). This week we didnt get any punt/lash combos which is pretty much the only thing where we call a wipe, if he does get punted our tank usually pops his avoidance trinkets and prays to jeebus.

Considering the infernals on Anetheron despawn if any are still up when you kill him, I would imagine the doomguards on Azgalor are suppoed to as well.

I don't know if they're supposed to but they certainly didn't for us today when we killed him

Yeah, they're definitely NOT despawning right now, I was just speculating that, as the other add boss in the instance has it's adds despawn when the boss is killed, Azgalor is probably intended to as well.

I wore the neck and cloak and even had my t4 helm enchanted with SR. To no avail, I ran OOM.

You're not killing it quick enough, you have about 11k Mana buffed, Pot + Mana tide and mp/5 gear should easily give you enough to kill it without blowing up. Are you spamming top rank healing wave? I just cant comprehend how you can go through so much mana on such a short fight.

Kaz should die in around 4min. Here a wws from our last kill.
Kaz'rogal - WWS
Check out the damage from the npcs. Make sure you pull almost every npc (run around with him).
And keep judgement of wisdom up, should help with the mana of the dps classes a bit.
Worst case use fel mana potions, those will give you 3200 (without trinket).

I use about 330 Shadow Resistance on Kaz'rogal (three pieces crafted armor, the cape, the neck and Shadow Protection buff). So far I've resisted 9/10 mana burns every time. Of course you can be unlucky with resists. But that's why you got Super Mana Pots, Fel Mana Pots, Dark Runes, Judgement of Wisdom etc. On top of that it's a short fight.

Is there any sort of trick you can use to pull all of the NPC's on Kaz'Rogal. We got our first kill last night but lost so much time aggro'ing all the NPC's, just had him pulled to thrall and had the MT run him over to the tauren camp. By the time he got over there he was about ~10-15 seconds away from first mark and at 95%, led to an exciting kill with taurens tanking the last 10 % or so! Just seemed like we were better off pulling him to the tauren camp (assuming enough lived through trash) and starting immediately.

I'm not stupid. =P
Rank 4 Chain heal if the melee are too low (no SoL or whatever) and rank 6 Healing Wave on MT.

Like I said however, our dps was too low. We fought him for 5-6 minutes and then my mana was just gone. I silently exploded in a corner and ankhed up, so I lived until the last (7:33 minutes) at which point Thrall died.