◊ Quigon

If you kill a set of reds all at once, and then move, you should easily be gone before they respawn. The trick is in timing the elites to die around the same time. It is better to drag an elite than a red imo. Better yet is to drag nothing.

 

Kink

With almost all BT fights and a lot of MH fights, you need to start getting higher health on your clothies. All of our cloth folks were told to be able to at least get 10k life buffed. Since then, we have had very few deaths to 2x carrion swarms ont he same groups. Of course as you are new to MH, it may not be so easy to get the 10k life needed, but it makes a huge difference, plus will be very very useful for Najentus.

I agree. I hate fighting Azgalor far more than Archimonde, Archimonde even took 1 raid day less to down =). Azgalor's RoF should maybe tuned down a bit due to the sheer random nature of the Doom and the RoF being so strong really can mean luck decides if you win or lose. I really dislike fights with strong random factors in them, and Doom killing off your healers first is very very annoying and unpreventable in this fight. Maybe ore experienced guilds have less issues due to having more DPS and therefore less dooms. But to a new guild tot he fight, it is very harsh, especially with a 30minute trash clear for each attempt.

We did 1-3 MH then 1-3 in BT. The first 3 fights are relatively easy (Najentus being the toughest of the 1-3 BT fights oddly enough!) After we had the first 3 bosses on "farm" we then finished off MH. Though going 1-4 in both instances would also make sense.

The loots from the first 4 bosses of each instance will go a LONG way to boost your raid hps up over the 10k buffed barrier which really makes a huge difference on many fights.

There is light at the end of the tunnel.
The only problem is, it's often an incoming train.

 

• Mongoe

So I'm a little ashamed to admit this, but we're running into trouble on Anetheron controlling his infernals. We've had them skamper through ppl just carrioned and wipe 3-4 dps at a time. We've had the infernal tank run out to get one, get carrioned and be oor of his healers (the closest raid healers to him being also carrioned).

We set up the raid with 4 clusters essentially around him. The melee spread around him. The ranged dps at 3 points closest to where the infernal tank is and one MT healer alone on the far side-hopefully getting as few carrions as possible. We have a second MT healer at one of the ranged spots and a raid healer at each of the 3 ranged dps spots. The Infernal tank sits in front of Jaina with 2 dedicated healers further back. As an infernal spawns the target starts running towards the tank. Once the tank gets the infrnal - the ranged switches to the infernal until it's dead.

We're handling the carrion wave fine. The thing that has caused the wipes is always the infernal in one form or another. Are people using hunter rotations to MD them to the tank quicker? Are our ppl just too damn slow getting to the tank when they're targetted with inferno? Tank too slow? We seemed to do very well killing the other 'easy' T6 bosses and had a relatively quick time of kael-so wiping to Anetheron is making me go prematurely grey.

 

Ralask

We use MD's but the infernal person has to run to the tank fast. We have a real dumbed down strat for the fight. We have the melee and the tank on the boss tanking him a few feet from where he enters. We have the range with the infernal tank over by the little area inbetween the stables and the house. If the range gets a carrion swarm they run to that area for heals. When the infernal drops the range kills the infernal then goes back on the boss. Is your raid using any boss mods to help them know when swarm is coming or when they are the infernal target? If not might want to try bigwigs.

 

• constantius

We have the raid in basically 6 clumps:

- tank + melee on Aneth
- 4 ranged camps, each with a healer
- infernal tank + dedicated healer, healer stands about 70 yards from Aneth (no carrion swarm to worry about)
- hunters are mixed amongst 3 of the 4 ranged groups

Infernal spawn, you know who it's on before it lands, that person runs to a clear space somewhere around Aneth, MD goes up, and it's sent right to the tank. Once it gets there, he repositions to be in range of his healer, and the ranged groups turn and nuke it.

Tank stands near the ballista on Jaena's left, Aneth is tanked roughly where the knights stand.

 

Fendryl

We usually have at least 2 hunters. This means each hunter can MD an infernal, with one occasionally spawning while both hunters are on cooldown; in that case we'll just hit it with a distracting shot, run back to the tanking area & feign it as it passes the tank. They're usually able to grab it w/o an issue.

Occasionally he'll wait a long time for an infernal (like he did last night for us) which just gives more time for MD's to be off cooldown.

 

Clandestine

Anetheron really does not require that complicated a strategy. Only the healers need to be spread out, because it doesn't matter how many ranged DPS gets hit. For the first couple of weeks I would spread them out specifically, but they just pick spots for themselves now. We've used 1-2 infernal tanks, but we've never had enough hunters to reliably MD, so they just pick them up by themselves. The Inferno cast time is plenty long for a tank to get near the target.

I don't really know what to say if your Infernal tanks are having problems picking them up or running out of range of all healers. They really shouldn't have to move much at all once they pick up an infernal - the immolate range is very small and they can be easily tanked between the ranged and the melee. Have your tanks had experience picking up adds on other add control fights, such as Vashj?

 

Tyrian

Remember you dont even need hunters to always pull/misdirect infernals. The easiest way to pull an infernal is actually a mage/caster who takes off salvation and uses a mana pot immediately when it spawns. Make sure you will actually receive the full amount of mana restored when you use it - Thats alot of threat! (Of course you want to make sure your infernal ot can pull it of you as it comes, which shouldnt be hard - easily snarable while you kite it in those few seconds)

We had some fun times using 'mage misdirects' the other day when our hunters died to pull infernals, and it was a fun change.

 

Nytro

Mana pot + mage misdirect.. ? Im a little torn here.. ive never heard of using such a mechanic.. where mana gains would actually give you threat.. so in turn im confused whether you are actually serious or just hate your mages ?

 

◊ Acustar

Evo won't because it's just a super spi-based regen. But I know mana pots/gems give some threat. Usually not noticeable except on newly spawned adds. Pop a gem/mana pot right as a hydross phase change hits.

 

Tyrian

Whenever you use a mana pot/gem to regain mana - you gain threat on everything around you , alot of threat if you get 2-3k mana restored - thats common knowledge among good raiding casters. (Im always surprised by how many raiders dont seem to know this...)

You can use it to your advantage on Anetheron to self-pull (if you dont have enough hunters) infernals towards the mage. In our strat, all the mages stand about 60 yards from the boss next to the Infernal offtank, so we pull it towards him and he picks it up.

BTW - It doesnt have to be a mage (I only mentioned that because im one), any class who uses mana could self-pull mobs in this way.

 

Sapp

It's also an amusing extra way to get the infernal over to a pallytank.

 

Vohbo

I don't understand the problems with Az'galor. We have killed it on I think our second pull ever and since then wiped to it once because healers were apparently AFK when it was entering the camp. The Doom has a very small random element since it isn't cast very often. The first 2-4 are negated by soulstones, the next 1-3 are negated by combat rezzes. In all likelyhood you can get another free one from a shaman dying and self rezzing as well.
By the time all that is used you get maybe 1-2 dooms more and then it should be dead.
Archimonde on the other hand we wipe plenty on. Usually due to stupid silly mistakes that people keep making over and over. I don't think it can reasonably be justified to call Az'galor the hardest fight in the zone.

 

• Latito

Agreed. In the last 2+ months I think we've wiped on Azgalor once - first 4 dooms were ALL healers. Sure there's soulstones.. but one healer running away to die, one running back from res'ing and a crappy silence got us or something. Either way... its a SUPER repeatable fight for us. Archimonde we've 1-shot the last 2 weeks, but over the last 2 months we've averaged 6-8 attempts per week.

 

Stony

What is the requirement to open Mother Shazz's door? Is it just killing ROS? or do you need to clear Gurtogg and Teron as well?

 

Sapp

All three down, I understand.

 

Tyrian

I would call Archimonde the most strategy dependant fight in the zone. (Aka not necessarily 'the hardest')

Whether your guild has a easy->nightmare time killing Archimonde is of course depandant on your players - but also hugely affected by how solid your strategy is and how well your players understand it.

 

Natural

I agree that you don't need hunters but what you are describing is overly complicated. We used to have a dedicated tanking position with misdirects, but I recently decided that tanking them near their spawn is quite viable.

Try having your infernal tank (don't forget FR gear) stand in the middle of the raid waiting for the Infernal to cast. When he begins the cast, have the tank move up next to the targeted player (but out of range of stun). Once the infernal spawns the tank attacks and the nearby players adjust. If it spawns on melee, the tank should obviously back it away a bit.

The disadvantage of this strategy is that the ranged DPS will need to occasionally attack through Anetheron to reach the Infernal. The advantage of this strategy is that you should never have an infernal running through your raid causing damage and potentially wasting DPS time.

 

Elendril

Anatheron also has a vampiric aura that causes the infernals to heal for a % of damage dealt, from what I understand, which is the primary reason for tanking them away from him.

 

Tyrian

Complicated? No way - What you described actually requires more effort , lets compare

1 - Caster clicks mana pot to pull agro. Infernal immediately running directly towards caster waiting at the tank spot.
2- Infernal tank stays in raid waiting for infernal. Infernal tank moves to targetted player. Nearby players move away from infernal spawn point. Tank picks up infernal in the raid, establishes agro, then attempts to drag the infernal through the drag to the tank location or tanks it at current location depending on guild strat.

Granted, both have the same effective result - but the second method sounds more complicated to me. I dont think it makes sense to force multiple nearby players to 'adjust' to an infernal when you could simply move it immediately out of the raid and let the raid focus on more important things (keeping the tank alive/healing carrion swarm)

 

Natural

In your case, people still need to move away from the spawn point and the tank still needs to establish aggro. I am not sure why you're listing that as a complication of my suggestion. I also don't understand why you think picking up an infernal where it spawns is complicated.

Using a mana pot to pull aggro seems inherently risky to me. How much threat does it generate compared to healers? What if the infernal has to run all the way across the raid? What if it runs through the melee and they are using whirlwind/bladeflurry? What if the mana pot timer is down? Do you rotate the caster who uses it?

Tanking it near it's spawn point means the warrior is on it quickly, definitively, and it's not going to run around for any reason.

 

Tyrian

Yes, depending on how many hunters there are. However I should add our strat for infernals is 4-5 ranged dps (2-3 mages/1spriest/1warlock) standing at 50+ yards the entire fight. They never are actually dps'ing anetheron, and therefore are never able to get carrion swarmed. We basically put the amount of dps that it takes to kill an infernal before the next one spawns - and keep those players separate from the raid. Our reasoning for this is because it means there are less targets who can get carrion swarmed near the raid, reducing total carrion swarm damage done so the healers can focus more on your mt. Its still only a short ~5-6 minute fight either way. =)

 

Myul

Our main reason is, that the infernal dps group won't get damaged by a swarm (so won't need additional healing) and especially that the assigned offtank healers won't get the swarm debuff (which could result in a dead offtank quickly).

Today we was running with three hunter for the infernal and it was pure luxury having an MD ready with every infernal spawn. Other ID's, we used one hunter with merciless gear to autoshot pull them off the raid.

Other topic, was the illidari council nurfed in the days ago? We tried them on tuesday for the first tome at the end of our raiding week and managed to get them to 19% (enrage timer) on our last try with 2 early dps death and only three used heroism instead of six. With proper lineup and healers on fire, it seem's much to easy compared to fights like RoS or BB. From lurking here, i really thougt of a second epic (horrible) twin emps fight.

 

Yilona

Illidari Council has never been very hard or interesting as an encounter. Many here feel that Blizzard completely dropped the ball with them. Instead of something like 4 Horsemen or Twin Emps that required quite a lot of practice and good execution, we get a 5-10 minute snooze fest.

Enjoy the free epics. =)

 

◊ Praetorian

Illidari Council is a lot like Twin Emps. It's not really "hard" in that there aren't sudden skill-checks that can wipe you, but it does require solid attention for ~10 minutes. I don't know, some people say it's boring but as a healer it's actually probably the "hardest" fight in the zone in terms of demanding very rapid reactions from multiple people. Helping with OT healing, healing the raid, tossing chain heals at the Gathios melee, NS'ing poisoned people who are soon to die, and earth shocking Malande's Divine Wraths, I have a more involved role there than on any other fight in the zone that I can think of. It's more mana intensive than any other fight in the zone for me, as well. I enjoy it.