For us wave 6 was the hardest out of Azgalor waves, just because we have no problems handling lots of mobs, but that many banshees and necros coming all at once just gibs someone really fast. We ended up having a paladin get initial aggro on the mobs and bubbling before the shadowbolts hit him, while hunters peel some off from either side and rogues drop down from the tower to cheap shot necros.
I bubble and run in/AOE silence all of the mobs so they charge straight into a Hunter Trap full of melee waiting to lay the beatdown (plus mean old Tauren Warriors with big STICKS).
Wow, I'd totally forgotten about General Rajaxx. Great way to explain it to people who are entering Hyjal for the first time.
I do like Quigon's idea of a "checkpoint" though -- then if you wanted to just farm trash for rep and items when it's added, you could intentionally fall back and let Jaina/Thrall die before the last wave.
I bubble and run in/AOE silence all of the mobs so they charge straight into a Hunter Trap full of melee waiting to lay the beatdown (plus mean old Tauren Warriors with big STICKS).
Unfortunately we don't have Paladins with AoE silence over in our raid, but the hunter trap is a pretty decent idea. In the end it wasn't even really a problem once we got used to it, none of the Hyjal trash is really hard except for the first time you see it and you have no idea what's coming.
If one of your warriors has rage left (or is really good at timing Bloodrage), he can rush ahead and pop Spell Reflection as soon as the necros start casting, then run away again. He will reflect most of the bolts because they are cast at the same time. He will also get aggro because of the reflected damage and the necros will start running after him, so you can easily sheep them. Obviously this doesn't work too well on the first wave.
If one of your warriors has rage left (or is really good at timing Bloodrage), he can rush ahead and pop Spell Reflection as soon as the necros start casting, then run away again. He will reflect most of the bolts because they are cast at the same time. He will also get aggro because of the reflected damage and the necros will start running after him, so you can easily sheep them. Obviously this doesn't work too well on the first wave.
This can backfire horribly. The banshee nuke is instantaneous, and a banshee can burn the reflect before the bolts arrive, resulting in the warrior just exploding.
This can backfire horribly. The banshee nuke is instantaneous, and a banshee can burn the reflect before the bolts arrive, resulting in the warrior just exploding.
The only nuke I've seen them use is Banshee Wail which has a 1.5 sec cast, or did you mean it has no travel time? (I have no idea on that one as I'm always in melee range of them)
Right sorry, I meant no travel time. Basically if banshees both start casting on the reflecting warrior, the wails will arrive first, burn the reflect, and then the bolts will gib him.
If one of your warriors has rage left (or is really good at timing Bloodrage), he can rush ahead and pop Spell Reflection as soon as the necros start casting, then run away again. He will reflect most of the bolts because they are cast at the same time. He will also get aggro because of the reflected damage and the necros will start running after him, so you can easily sheep them. Obviously this doesn't work too well on the first wave.
We do something similar but with a hunter (longer rage), and a grounding totem.
Well, you won't reflect all spells, but a few. I never get killed doing this, the mobs still have to nuke for over 20k, not counting reflected spells. It might not be the best solution, but I rather do this than getting a NPC killed because the paladins are still drinking and can't bubble up front.
Edit: yea, Grounding Totem can soak another spell, too.
Keep a Felpup banished in the front on wave 5 with all the Tauren beating on it. When wave 6 comes, let the Tauren/Thrall soak the initial volleys of shadowy death, AoE fear bomb when Tauren start stunning, then start AoEing. You now have turned one of the hardest waves into one of the easiest.
Bleah, Azgalor gave us a hard night - nearly 9 hours - of wiping today, with us actually hitting the enrage timer at 15% on our best, and last try (I didn't even know he had an enrage timer!). After a few frustrating wipes when our intrepid warchief decided that green skin = fire immunity and found out otherwise the hard way, we decided on clearing the 8th wave fast and pulling Azgalor nearly at the gate. Hunter would MD him towards the tank standing with the taurens, then we'd move slowly out the gate and into the open area beyond.
We don't have any trouble keeping the MT up through silence anymore, and we have 4 soulstones, 2 battle rez and 3~4 ankhs, allowing us to get through around 10 dooms without really losing any of our raid members to it. Melee stick to the doomguards while ranged DPS Azgalor. Thrall is obviously not added.
Is our positioning the problem? The way outside the horde gate is apparently narrower than it looks, and some of our ranged DPS complained about dying to RoF. Is there a better place we could tank him? We raided until nearly 3 in the morning, so that might have been the problem. :P
On a note more related to the current thread topic, the horde camp trash is actually pretty damn fun. The tauren with their incredibly imba warstomp+pulverise are always a pleasure to watch, and I think if the trash actually gave rep or drops it'd be a pretty fun zone. We normally have a melee hit squad running around focusing on banshees, necros etc while casters AoE the ghouls/fiends/what have you. It actually works pretty well despite the fact that it's dividing raid DPS.
Keep a Felpup banished in the front on wave 5 with all the Tauren beating on it. When wave 6 comes, let the Tauren/Thrall soak the initial volleys of shadowy death, AoE fear bomb when Tauren start stunning, then start AoEing. You now have turned one of the hardest waves into one of the easiest.
I agree 100% with this. Wave 6 is very similar to Azgalor himself: get taurens in the fight and it becomes a whole lot easier.
Bleah, Azgalor gave us a hard night - nearly 9 hours - of wiping today, with us actually hitting the enrage timer at 15% on our best, and last try (I didn't even know he had an enrage timer!). After a few frustrating wipes when our intrepid warchief decided that green skin = fire immunity and found out otherwise the hard way, we decided on clearing the 8th wave fast and pulling Azgalor nearly at the gate. Hunter would MD him towards the tank standing with the taurens, then we'd move slowly out the gate and into the open area beyond.
We don't have any trouble keeping the MT up through silence anymore, and we have 4 soulstones, 2 battle rez and 3~4 ankhs, allowing us to get through around 10 dooms without really losing any of our raid members to it. Melee stick to the doomguards while ranged DPS Azgalor. Thrall is obviously not added.
Is our positioning the problem? The way outside the horde gate is apparently narrower than it looks, and some of our ranged DPS complained about dying to RoF. Is there a better place we could tank him? We raided until nearly 3 in the morning, so that might have been the problem.
We initially tried this approach as well. Except using Thrall to assist killing doomguards with the melee. However it's my itching intuition that tells me this is an unwise approach to this boss due to the built-in wipe mechanic (doom), but instead would be safer to just burn him full-time with NPC's.
Is this how most guilds are killing Azgalor? Do you try to control and elongate the fight by killing doomguards? Or do you offtank and ignore them completely while burning the entire fight. If so, how do you keep the NPC's alive other than moving Azgalor completely when RoF hits them. How many dooms are guilds killing him if DPS zerging?
Also as far as Thrall dieing, the most logical way to keep him alive would be keeping him out of the fight completely... duh, but from what I've seen most guilds ignore that and hope he doesn't get RoF'd again and again. Seems too luck-based to rely on yet it's used often.
Apologies for the "how do I kill boss" tone, I usually don't make posts like this. ><
Bleah, Azgalor gave us a hard night - nearly 9 hours - of wiping today, with us actually hitting the enrage timer at 15% on our best, and last try (I didn't even know he had an enrage timer!). After a few frustrating wipes when our intrepid warchief decided that green skin = fire immunity and found out otherwise the hard way, we decided on clearing the 8th wave fast and pulling Azgalor nearly at the gate. Hunter would MD him towards the tank standing with the taurens, then we'd move slowly out the gate and into the open area beyond.
We don't have any trouble keeping the MT up through silence anymore, and we have 4 soulstones, 2 battle rez and 3~4 ankhs, allowing us to get through around 10 dooms without really losing any of our raid members to it. Melee stick to the doomguards while ranged DPS Azgalor. Thrall is obviously not added.
Is our positioning the problem? The way outside the horde gate is apparently narrower than it looks, and some of our ranged DPS complained about dying to RoF. Is there a better place we could tank him? We raided until nearly 3 in the morning, so that might have been the problem. :P
On a note more related to the current thread topic, the horde camp trash is actually pretty damn fun. The tauren with their incredibly imba warstomp+pulverise are always a pleasure to watch, and I think if the trash actually gave rep or drops it'd be a pretty fun zone. We normally have a melee hit squad running around focusing on banshees, necros etc while casters AoE the ghouls/fiends/what have you. It actually works pretty well despite the fact that it's dividing raid DPS.
I didn't know he enrages either, a few tips that may help you if you want to change up your strategy just a bit.
Thrall may die quickly in the fire, but that shouldn't mean don't involve him in the fight. We pull azgalor to the tauren area and have "doomed" victims immediately run towards thrall. A tank picks up the demon and thrall helps dps it down, never getting involved in the fight w/ azgalor. Thrall and his buddies can kill the first demon by the time the third is out, without any help from the raid. Because of this we offtank all demons and keep the melee on him (even though it's dangerous with RoF). In addition, people near thrall are out of RoF range and Doom range. We use 1 tank and 1 healer, and then around halfway in we add a second tank and a second healer, MD's can also be helpful as the add tank can be chain stunned in bad cases.
Hope this helps, a long night on azgalor is not a fun one.
We put Thrall on Azgalor and use NPC's off to the side to keep the Doomguards under control with a healer and 2 warriors. Two kills so far and no problems with Thrall dieing. I think he even healed himself or something on our first kill. We have all the DPS on Azgalor so the fight goes relatively quick if people don't die to cleave or RoF. We have the Melee stand on the opposite side of Thrall, with no one on his side.
I skimmed through a few pages but didn't see it mentioned.
About the caster instagibbing someone waves, we use a shaman who puts totems on the road before they arrive then runs all the way back to thrall. All the mobs will aggro totems then run straight for the shaman, making it possible for tanks to run in and for priests/locks to aoefear humanoids without getting aggro from a single mob.
It sounds as if the people who kill the adds have a harder time getting it done. Someone wrote they only had 3-4 demons up by the kill by just burning and moving.
If you decide to burn, the number of adds you'll have really depends on your raid composition. We typically have a ranged/caster heavy raid (2, maybe 3 melee), we burn him down, and we generally have like 6-8 doomguards up when he dies. This is obviously because a lot of our DPS spends the fight silenced.
Personally I dont think you're meant to kill the adds; you're just prolonging the fight unnecessarily. The mobs are easily tanked with a bit of planning, and you're reducing the chance of things going wrong by beasting him down.
We have killed him a couple of times now and both of our kills were without killing the adds. I think in total we have only ever had 3 or 4 spawn during the fight so it really is not much of an issue. If you are a little slower on DPS just use a couple of tanks to deal with the adds, have them grab alternate doomguards and make sure to soulstone/combat res the doomed people to keep 25 people alive for as long as possible.
In my opinion prolonging the fight by killing the adds only increases the chance that you will run into danger with Thrall dying. I would much rather tank Azgalor in the middle of the camp and get his silence to aggro as many NPCs as possible then tank him 100yds from Thrall so he is not in the fight. All of the Tauren Warriors and adds around Thrall provide a large DPS boost to the raid.
For Azgalor we don't use any melee DPS on him. Melee kill Doomguards at a camp out of range of everything. This reduces the RoF at Azgalor and means that not only Thrall but also tons of Tauren Warriors and such can survive for a long time. I think NPCs did 1mil damage total to Azgalor for us. We also don't use any SR. With just the priest SR buff someone almost always resists it, plus you have Imp Conc to reduce the duration. And if everyone gets silenced, a paladin can just bubble out of it if needed. I don't think we had any close calls on our MT at all really.
That´s kindof the total opposite of how we do it. We have all melee + npc:s on azgalor and someone saying when meleecamp is RoF:ed incase the tank can´t see it. So the boss gets trained around with a constant flow of melee DPS. Thrall isn´t brought in until first doom where the doomed guy get close to Thrall to add him in. Thrall have like 10-20% hp when the fight is over that way. Ranged DPS are on doomguards.
We don´t use any SR either and we got some paladins with imp conc-aura.
Edit: On our first and only kill we had the last 3 doomguards offtanked and everyone dps:ing the boss.
Yep, that's definitely exactly the opposite of how we do it. We never move Azgalor at all, and use the 40yd range on RoF to limit its possible targets, allowing the majority of the raid to DPS/heal freely without ever having to move or worry about moving.
Yep, that's definitely exactly the opposite of how we do it. We never move Azgalor at all, and use the 40yd range on RoF to limit its possible targets, allowing the majority of the raid to DPS/heal freely without ever having to move or worry about moving.
Does Azgalor's spell-casting range start at the center of his hit box or at the edge? I remember in early Naxx, Anub'rekhan's impale could actually be outranged fairly easily despite having a 40 yard range because the edge of his hit box was so far from the center of his model, which was the point from where impale range was calculated. I take it Azgalor's RoF is like this too?
You said you never move Azgalor, so I take it that you just heal the MT through RoF if it's falling on his head?
edit: Your method would mean the RoF has less possible targets, greatly increasing the chance that it'll fall on the clumped-up melee. Has that given you any problems?
edit: Your method would mean the RoF has less possible targets, greatly increasing the chance that it'll fall on the clumped-up melee. Has that given you any problems?
His post above says:
For Azgalor we don't use any melee DPS on him. Melee kill Doomguards at a camp out of range of everything. This reduces the RoF at Azgalor and means that not only Thrall but also tons of Tauren Warriors and such can survive for a long time.
We just heal the MT through RoF. That damage is insignificant compared to the melee that Azgalor can put out. It reminded me of the first days of trying Lurker and trying to put our tank in such a spot where he wouldn't take scalding water -- turned out to be silly trying to avoid that.
The upshot is that Azgalor never moves and Thrall is in his back 180. Once people get in their positions they know that at least Azgalor is going to stay where he's at. RoF isn't a huge danger to Thrall, but him eating a cleave or two will quickly ruin your day.
Does Azgalor's spell-casting range start at the center of his hit box or at the edge? I remember in early Naxx, Anub'rekhan's impale could actually be outranged fairly easily despite having a 40 yard range because the edge of his hit box was so far from the center of his model, which was the point from where impale range was calculated. I take it Azgalor's RoF is like this too?
You said you never move Azgalor, so I take it that you just heal the MT through RoF if it's falling on his head?
edit: Your method would mean the RoF has less possible targets, greatly increasing the chance that it'll fall on the clumped-up melee. Has that given you any problems?
That's how it works for every single mob in the game, and always has. Their range to you starts from the center of their hitbox. Your range to them checks only the outer edge of their hitbox.
07/03/07, 12:50 PM
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