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Old 10/25/07, 2:30 PM   #1156
Fendryl
Don Flamenco
 
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Orc Hunter
 
Malfurion
We usually have at least 2 hunters. This means each hunter can MD an infernal, with one occasionally spawning while both hunters are on cooldown; in that case we'll just hit it with a distracting shot, run back to the tanking area & feign it as it passes the tank. They're usually able to grab it w/o an issue.

Occasionally he'll wait a long time for an infernal (like he did last night for us) which just gives more time for MD's to be off cooldown.

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Old 10/25/07, 2:47 PM   #1157
Clandestine
Don Flamenco
 
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Human Rogue
 
Laughing Skull
Anetheron really does not require that complicated a strategy. Only the healers need to be spread out, because it doesn't matter how many ranged DPS gets hit. For the first couple of weeks I would spread them out specifically, but they just pick spots for themselves now. We've used 1-2 infernal tanks, but we've never had enough hunters to reliably MD, so they just pick them up by themselves. The Inferno cast time is plenty long for a tank to get near the target.

I don't really know what to say if your Infernal tanks are having problems picking them up or running out of range of all healers. They really shouldn't have to move much at all once they pick up an infernal - the immolate range is very small and they can be easily tanked between the ranged and the melee. Have your tanks had experience picking up adds on other add control fights, such as Vashj?

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Old 10/25/07, 2:52 PM   #1158
Tyrian
Bald Bull
 
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Human Mage
 
Frostmourne
So I'm a little ashamed to admit this, but we're running into trouble on Anetheron controlling his infernals.
Remember you dont even need hunters to always pull/misdirect infernals. The easiest way to pull an infernal is actually a mage/caster who takes off salvation and uses a mana pot immediately when it spawns. Make sure you will actually receive the full amount of mana restored when you use it - Thats alot of threat! (Of course you want to make sure your infernal ot can pull it of you as it comes, which shouldnt be hard - easily snarable while you kite it in those few seconds)

We had some fun times using 'mage misdirects' the other day when our hunters died to pull infernals, and it was a fun change.

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Old 10/25/07, 5:19 PM   #1159
Nytro
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
Bloodhoof
Mana pot + mage misdirect.. ? Im a little torn here.. ive never heard of using such a mechanic.. where mana gains would actually give you threat.. so in turn im confused whether you are actually serious or just hate your mages ?

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Old 10/25/07, 5:24 PM   #1160
Acustar
Soda Popinski
 
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Tauren Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Nytro View Post
Mana pot + mage misdirect.. ? Im a little torn here.. ive never heard of using such a mechanic.. where mana gains would actually give you threat.. so in turn im confused whether you are actually serious or just hate your mages ?
Evo won't because it's just a super spi-based regen. But I know mana pots/gems give some threat. Usually not noticeable except on newly spawned adds. Pop a gem/mana pot right as a hydross phase change hits.

Originally Posted by Sebudai View Post
Addons aren't a crutch, they're tools to be abused by skilled players to increase performance. Like a carpenter using a hammer, a fisherman using a lure, or Xi using curse words.

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Old 10/25/07, 5:29 PM   #1161
Tyrian
Bald Bull
 
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Human Mage
 
Frostmourne
where mana gains would actually give you threat.. so in turn im confused whether you are actually serious or just hate your mages ?
Whenever you use a mana pot/gem to regain mana - you gain threat on everything around you , alot of threat if you get 2-3k mana restored - thats common knowledge among good raiding casters. (Im always surprised by how many raiders dont seem to know this...)

You can use it to your advantage on Anetheron to self-pull (if you dont have enough hunters) infernals towards the mage. In our strat, all the mages stand about 60 yards from the boss next to the Infernal offtank, so we pull it towards him and he picks it up.

BTW - It doesnt have to be a mage (I only mentioned that because im one), any class who uses mana could self-pull mobs in this way.

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Old 10/25/07, 5:44 PM   #1162
Sapp
Bald Bull
 
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Human Paladin
 
<NI>
Detheroc
It's also an amusing extra way to get the infernal over to a pallytank.

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Old 10/25/07, 6:21 PM   #1163
Vohbo
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Aggramar (EU)
I don't understand the problems with Az'galor. We have killed it on I think our second pull ever and since then wiped to it once because healers were apparently AFK when it was entering the camp. The Doom has a very small random element since it isn't cast very often. The first 2-4 are negated by soulstones, the next 1-3 are negated by combat rezzes. In all likelyhood you can get another free one from a shaman dying and self rezzing as well.
By the time all that is used you get maybe 1-2 dooms more and then it should be dead.
Archimonde on the other hand we wipe plenty on. Usually due to stupid silly mistakes that people keep making over and over. I don't think it can reasonably be justified to call Az'galor the hardest fight in the zone.

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Old 10/25/07, 7:37 PM   #1164
Latito
Don Flamenco
 
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Human Rogue
 
Lightbringer
Originally Posted by Vohbo View Post
I don't understand the problems with Az'galor. We have killed it on I think our second pull ever and since then wiped to it once because healers were apparently AFK when it was entering the camp. The Doom has a very small random element since it isn't cast very often. The first 2-4 are negated by soulstones, the next 1-3 are negated by combat rezzes. In all likelyhood you can get another free one from a shaman dying and self rezzing as well.
By the time all that is used you get maybe 1-2 dooms more and then it should be dead.
Archimonde on the other hand we wipe plenty on. Usually due to stupid silly mistakes that people keep making over and over. I don't think it can reasonably be justified to call Az'galor the hardest fight in the zone.
Agreed. In the last 2+ months I think we've wiped on Azgalor once - first 4 dooms were ALL healers. Sure there's soulstones.. but one healer running away to die, one running back from res'ing and a crappy silence got us or something. Either way... its a SUPER repeatable fight for us. Archimonde we've 1-shot the last 2 weeks, but over the last 2 months we've averaged 6-8 attempts per week.

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Old 10/31/07, 2:24 PM   #1165
Stony
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Rogue
 
Mal'Ganis
What is the requirement to open Mother Shazz's door? Is it just killing ROS? or do you need to clear Gurtogg and Teron as well?

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Old 10/31/07, 3:10 PM   #1166
Sapp
Bald Bull
 
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Human Paladin
 
<NI>
Detheroc
Originally Posted by Stony View Post
What is the requirement to open Mother Shazz's door? Is it just killing ROS? or do you need to clear Gurtogg and Teron as well?
All three down, I understand.

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Old 10/31/07, 3:27 PM   #1167
Tyrian
Bald Bull
 
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Human Mage
 
Frostmourne
I don't think it can reasonably be justified to call Az'galor the hardest fight in the zone
I would call Archimonde the most strategy dependant fight in the zone. (Aka not necessarily 'the hardest')

Whether your guild has a easy->nightmare time killing Archimonde is of course depandant on your players - but also hugely affected by how solid your strategy is and how well your players understand it.

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Old 10/31/07, 5:28 PM   #1168
Natural
Don Flamenco
 
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Tauren Warrior
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by Tyrian View Post
Remember you dont even need hunters to always pull/misdirect infernals. The easiest way to pull an infernal is actually a mage/caster who takes off salvation and uses a mana pot immediately when it spawns. Make sure you will actually receive the full amount of mana restored when you use it - Thats alot of threat! (Of course you want to make sure your infernal ot can pull it of you as it comes, which shouldnt be hard - easily snarable while you kite it in those few seconds)

We had some fun times using 'mage misdirects' the other day when our hunters died to pull infernals, and it was a fun change.
I agree that you don't need hunters but what you are describing is overly complicated. We used to have a dedicated tanking position with misdirects, but I recently decided that tanking them near their spawn is quite viable.

Try having your infernal tank (don't forget FR gear) stand in the middle of the raid waiting for the Infernal to cast. When he begins the cast, have the tank move up next to the targeted player (but out of range of stun). Once the infernal spawns the tank attacks and the nearby players adjust. If it spawns on melee, the tank should obviously back it away a bit.

The disadvantage of this strategy is that the ranged DPS will need to occasionally attack through Anetheron to reach the Infernal. The advantage of this strategy is that you should never have an infernal running through your raid causing damage and potentially wasting DPS time.

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Old 10/31/07, 5:33 PM   #1169
Elendril
KINDOFABIGDEAL
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Ner'zhul
Anatheron also has a vampiric aura that causes the infernals to heal for a % of damage dealt, from what I understand, which is the primary reason for tanking them away from him.

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Old 10/31/07, 5:57 PM   #1170
Tyrian
Bald Bull
 
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Human Mage
 
Frostmourne
agree that you don't need hunters but what you are describing is overly complicated
Complicated? No way - What you described actually requires more effort , lets compare

1 - Caster clicks mana pot to pull agro. Infernal immediately running directly towards caster waiting at the tank spot.
2- Infernal tank stays in raid waiting for infernal. Infernal tank moves to targetted player. Nearby players move away from infernal spawn point. Tank picks up infernal in the raid, establishes agro, then attempts to drag the infernal through the drag to the tank location or tanks it at current location depending on guild strat.

Granted, both have the same effective result - but the second method sounds more complicated to me. I dont think it makes sense to force multiple nearby players to 'adjust' to an infernal when you could simply move it immediately out of the raid and let the raid focus on more important things (keeping the tank alive/healing carrion swarm)

Last edited by Tyrian : 10/31/07 at 6:04 PM.

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