I would definitely not put Archimonde that far down the line. The fight can be horrendously random with the fires and is terribly unforgiving with individual mistakes, but it's not a gear check. Archimonde loot is equal quality to Illidan and immensely easier to reach right now.

Our guild progression has gone like this:

Winterchill -> Anetheron -> Naj'entus -> Supremeus -> Akama -> Kazrogal -> Azgalor -> Archimonde -> (Finish BT)

I would support this order, however, if your guild takes more than a few attempts for Anetheron I would suggest pushing Naj->Akama first. Don't ever let Naj->Akama loot rot if you 25 people keyed.

Having never experienced BT past Shade, I probably don't have the best perspective on this, but our progression so far has been:

Rage->Naj'entus->Supremus->Shade->Anetheron->Kaz'rogal->Azgalor->Archimonde (11% WIPE)

Just about the same as what Natural is recommending, with BT bosses before Anetheron instead of after, which really doesn't matter.

Hyjal bosses just seem to have a much easier learning curve than most of the BT bosses, with Archimonde being the exception, but once you clear to him there's no trash, a short run back, nothing stopping you from just bashing your head against him until he dies.

Hopefully it does something positive.

My guess is that it'll behave like Supremus's fire now, but that's complete speculation.

I also strongly agree that Hyjal should get put on farm as quickly as the guild is capable of doing so. The trash is ruthless, but Archimonde's loot quality cannot be scoffed at. Farming Hyjal will improve the quality of your raid, and quickly at that.

That said I do feel that from a quality/entertainment perspective that the Archimonde encounter is likely the worst instance boss encounter since Molten Core. At no point do people do anything interesting in this encounter except not die.

Not a great pep talk I know, but Archimonde still needs to be farmed solely for the loot.

Supremus's fire behaves differently from Archimonde's? I've never noticed a difference.

I assumed that the change was made to make the fires follow more people around instead of generally staying centered on the MT about 50% of the time. Which isn't a good change. >_>

On the topic of Mother Shahraz, how often are most people seeing the tank getting knocked in the air, before we tried it I expected it far more often, but only saw it once in all of our attempts/kill.

Just curious, in the opinion of guilds farming Hyjal, on which bosses is it safe to use curse of recklessness. I was thinking Rage and Anetheron, but wondering if any use it on Kaz or Az? Thank you in advance.

Before we had any shadow res, probably once every 5-6 attempts. After getting ~230 shadow res on the tank, once in 10-15 attempts. We have been lucky with a couple though - knockup 3 times in a row and the lashes just happened to fall in the gaps.

We haven't even looked at Teron, so you may be correct. However, after killing Kazrogal, we felt obligated to at least give Azgalor a few attempts to see where we stood. Even if you fail, you benefit from the learning experience and can theorycraft afterwards. We must have gotten lucky because we killed Azgalor on our third attempt, which left Archimonde too tempting to pass on.

We kept Thrall DPS'ing the doom adds. It seems like a more logical choice than risking him in the fire. We used a warrior tank and had a feral druid doing DPS ready for backup. With battle rezzes and saving soulstones for important people who get doomed, I don't think losing tanks should be a problem unless you get terribly unlucky.

Definitely use it on Kaz'Rogal. He hits like a girl except for his fixed-damage cleave, and you hopefully have a bunch of NPCs beating on him too, so it helps a lot.

We use it on Archimonde, too, and tank death has never been a problem. Archimonde can't crush, so huge spikes aren't that much of a concern. We always have tremor for the MT healers though.

I think you'd have to be nuts to use it on Azgalor.

It was happening with quite a bit of regularity for us before we had our tank wear SR, even though on every pull one (or multiple) tanks will get knocked up at some point.

I feel the opposite about Teron I guess. Teron is a very simple fight as soon as everyone experiences being a shade, and hopefully someone being a shade for their first time isn't the very first shade of the fight.

I'd still go with Teron after killing Akama for one huge reason -- the trash. That's more Gems, more chances of Hearts of Darkness (which you need) and a shot at more epics. But once you start on Hyjal past Rage, I think you should take it all the way to Archimonde if you can tolerate the wipe->subsequent reclears of the trash waves.

That's a pretty big "if" =P

We personally went for Bloodboil after Kaz'rogal just because we were sick of the trash waves, but we'll clear through to Archimonde once we get him down (15% wipe last night, doh).

Yeah thanks for the comments, probably about what we were seeing, we only did I think 2 pulls ever where I didn't have some SR (since we knew a bit about the fight going in) and those were just pulls to check her out the night we killed RoS, after that with SR on a small mistake leading to burst tank deaths were pretty much the biggest problem, in probably 30ish pulls I only got KB'd once (and yeah, I got one shot)

I dunno Teron felt very easy to me - as long as the first few people kill their phantoms with no difficulty and are able to help the next person burst theirs down, the encounter almost becomes trivial. It establishes a pattern where everyone can help the next person for a few seconds with killing their ghosts. We even had everyone make macros for Spirit Lance, Volley and Chains, just incase your petbar bugs or breaks, or you don't know what the icons look like.


Azgalor is just frustrating to me on so many levels due to how stupid the fact that you can't heal or control Thrall in any way. You just watch him die. Hopefully we take him down, then Archimonde soon, so we can focus on Gurtogg and then get the rest of BT.

The hardest part about Teron is randomly finding out that someone else doesn't have a working pet bar or the appropriate macros. Once you've had everyone get ghosted and work out the kinks, it's a cool fight, but it's one of the many fights in TBC that feels like more of a relief than an accomplishment when you win.

Yeah that's why Teron is frustrating and stupid to me. If the 'right' person gets to be a ghost the encounter can be pretty easy. If the wrong person gets it, you're probably wiping. When we were learning him eventually we just came to the conclusion that a few of our members were going to struggle with controlling/killing their constructs on a consistent basis, probably for the foreseeable future, and we would just keep making attempts until the 'right' people got Shadow of Death.

Of course the other reason Teron is a terrible encounter is because it basically requires you to wipe 20+ times while everyone gets a turn at having Shadow of Death. Then you get more guaranteed wipes while people take turns fixing pet bar and/or hotkey issues.

Teron definitely does not fall into the hard category, but it's a stupid and sometimes frustrating encounter. And since I never get the Shadow of Death debuff, to me it's just a dps zerg!

Bring up Key Bindings. Scroll down to "Secondary Action Button" 1 through 9. 3 = lance, 4 = shackle, 5 = volley. No clue about the rest since I've never used them. 3, 4, and 5 default to Ctrl-3/4/5, but can be rebound to anything. Have everyone do that, and ignore the pet bar entirely. I just use F keys. Mash F4 when I'm about to die, then mash F3 while cycling through targets. It's fairly foolproof unless people botch it horribly or just don't understand the theory behind the process (and try to burn one down instead of keeping them all snared, or something).

We never have enough healers (hopefully changing soon, as per stickied recruitment post), so for us the frustration has been trying to do the fight with 3 paladins, one resto shaman, and 2 holy priests as our only healing, with one person having to focus on dispel duty. And then you get priest/shaman/paladin as your first three Shadows. We've wiped to Teron far, far more to running out of juice healing-wise than we have to Constructs reaching the dais.

My guild started off with Rage Winterchill, after an hour or two we got him down and tried the next boss in Hyjal but the trash really started to wear us down so we went to BT and havent looked back untill this week.

We went into BT and once we had a decent raid comp we downed Naj, Supremus and Shade in one night I believe, those bosses arnt very hard once u learn the gimmicks. After that we struggled a little with Teron, but got him down after 2-3 nights of progression because the server crashed the attempt we probably woulda beat him and people dont know how to control their adds. We havent done Bloodboil yet but from everything I've read he seems pretty hard, we might just end up doing him since the Hjyal trash is a pain in the neck.

1. Rage Winterchill and 2nd boss if you can stand trash.
2. BT up to Teron
3. Try out bloodboil if you dont think you have the gear for it yet, rough it out in Hyjal.

Yeah we've had all the keybinding and pet bar issues sorted for a while, I'm just talking about the learning experience basically.

Controlling and killing the constructs is very easy for a lot of people. Probably most people. But I don't think we're the only guild that has a couple members that just don't excel at that type of thing. In my experience it's usually healers because they spend a lot of time staring at health bars instead of dealing with mobs.

A player needs to have a certain amount of uh... keyboard dexterity(?) to kill their constructs in a somewhat timely manner. Some people just don't excel at things like casting spells and selecting new targets while they're re-positioning and adjusting their camera angle.

Thanks Praetorian. Do you avoid it on Anetheron due to the risks posed by sleep/carrion swarm on key healers or do you just nuke away with it up? As I recall you run a bit heavier on the melee than we do (and lighter on the healers if your 6 healer crew on that one Najentus attempt you mentioned is at all representative, lol).