quick question here, has anyone tried to position archi so that you can have the melee/hunters in the well or in the vicinity of the well due to the wells ability to remove the nasty debuffs from the swimmers?
idea would be melee/hunters in well with tank infront of it with casters/healers spread in an arc behind the tank
Had an undead female mage and shadow priest fall through the world early on an attempt yesterday during the same fear. They both used slowfall but we wiped before they hit bottom. One of them claims to have a deviate on. Pretty cool bug.
We've had a female undead lock fall through the world on a fear, interestingly enough. Hmm.
She died when she hit the bottom, but it was at like 25%, and no soul charge ever went off through 10% (travel time from the corpse to Arch must have been tremendous).
It's an interesting fight now - we stacked it with 5 shamans and 5 decursers, one of them being me in healing gear while still feral talented - having an extra group healer who can decurse is very useful. If you don't have the shamans/decursers to stack, it's very much a painful and "luck based" fight. Tremors for every group and lots of decursers definitely helps to cut down on randomness.
We did it pre-doomfire-change with 3 groups and dealt with it - obviously the 2 groups partially in front of him got a world of pain, and I think that helped us deal with it post-patch. We actually had 3 people die on our kill, at around 35/30/25 and still handled it alright. The tremors and decurse/healer stacking certainly helped. Somehow it still only took 8 minutes with the 3 deaths and (effectively) 9 healers. Wow Web Stats
There's more or less shit all you can do she she melee's, parries the tank, saber lashes and melee's again, doing 23000 damage or more in less than a second, and worse when combined with a beam or FA.
This was one of our big problems learning the fight, but through re-thinking healing assignments after our first night of work we were able to come back with a better set-up for the second night...and suddenly the MT healing problems were gone. Yes, she's capable of some truly punishing damage on the tank but I don't recall a single instance on that second night where the tank dropped dead without a number of crucial healers down. Especially considering she can't crush, healing on the MT can be ironclad if you play it right. Paches actually swapped out some tanking pieces for SR that night to further mitigate the luck factor, and again...even with horrible FA ports directly on top of him, he wasn't dying.
Is the issue of UD females falling through the world just one part of the terrain or does it affect all areas there? Because we've had 3 female UD's on Archimonde for over 30+ attempts and not one report of them falling through the ground, so I suspect its more on a position issue, than just the UD female issue.
I've been feared through the world twice, both times before our first kill (pre-doomfire changes). I don't know if it still happens but both times were as I was in a group on the south side of Archimonde (around where he's at initially as you pull), feared south from there and then my screen turned blue and I fell for what seemed like a minute or more.
The fight is still very random but after a couple kills it only takes an attempt or two to "warm up" to the randomness and get settled with what's going on. This week took only 4 or 5 attempts and only one wipe cascaded from something random we couldn't help (hunter eats grip+air burst, died as a druid ran to decurse but he was thrown too far away).
I had no shaman this week (as Nat described in his post) and just alternated between WOTF and PVP trinket as needed - not only to avoid being feared into doomfires, but moreso to dispel my groupmates so they could save their trinkets and keep up heals/decurses as needed.
I fell through the world on him once as well .. female human .. at first they thought i died too far out of range, since he didn't get a soul charge .. however about 2 minutes later, on a nearly perfect fight so far, he got one and used it instantly .. leading to a wipe.
So I went through logs, watched videos, checked out screenshots, and it just seems a fluke that our warrior got killed at the peak of his air burst. He was riding the top agro by a very fine line, I'm talking a few hundred apparently, below the MT. He got bursted and his deep wounds ticked for 203, and at the same time our MT missed or had dodge/parry on Arch, and the 203 damage pulled hate while he was in the air. Arch turned around and hit him while he's easily 100 yards up in the air, and then goes back to the MT. Pretty awful luck.
I'm not sure if I'd ever call pulling aggro on a raid boss like that "awful luck." I'm pretty sure if a Deep Wounds tick is the difference between pulling aggro and not pulling aggro, you're playing like an idiot. Especially on a fight that is not at all a DPS race.
Going higher than 90% of the MT's threat is asking for trouble.
Anyways, being close to 100% threat and then pulling aggro with nothing but a Deep Wound tick (no fear or anything) still sounds a bit weird.
KTM isn't 100% accurate, and now adays the 130% rule doesn't seem to apply, even 1 point above tends to kill people who get there, because the boss basically tends to rechoose the MT quite often (at least that is our theory).
In my experience, it's basically not safe to go above 100% on any fight where the boss has a random secondary target ability (i.e. every fight now), basically because as Quigon is saying, he 'rechooses' his top agro when he casts a random secondary target ability.
I'm not sure if I'd ever call pulling aggro on a raid boss like that "awful luck." I'm pretty sure if a Deep Wounds tick is the difference between pulling aggro and not pulling aggro, you're playing like an idiot. Especially on a fight that is not at all a DPS race.
Sure, I'll agree 100%. Pulling hate in an era where KTM exists is pretty awful.
quick question here, has anyone tried to position archi so that you can have the melee/hunters in the well or in the vicinity of the well due to the wells ability to remove the nasty debuffs from the swimmers?
idea would be melee/hunters in well with tank infront of it with casters/healers spread in an arc behind the tank
Originally you could do this. However they added an aggressive leash to him shortly afterwards. They certainly weren't lying about the aggressive part either. Picture Cthun on a bad pull with everyone grouped in doorway.
We tried that on our first or second pull, having most of the raid in or near the water. When he got close to the lake, he 1 shotted everyone with some silly high number, 99999 or something, don't really remember.
We tried that on our first or second pull, having most of the raid in or near the water. When he got close to the lake, he 1 shotted everyone with some silly high number, 99999 or something, don't really remember.
Personally, I like Finger of Death more. Finger of Death
80 yd range
1 sec cast
Strikes an enemy with the finger of death, inflicting 20000 shadow damage upon them, their children, and their children's children.
I'd actually laugh if I saw a warrior survive FoD.
I heard Sigurd scored an infinity on Rock Band and ascended to heaven.
I'de say non healing classes have a hard time staying alive but with health stones and healing potions most deaths can be prevented. Last two kills I have managed to only die once before a wipe was called simply by panning my camera all around while healing to avoid doomfires coming up from behind and to the side.
I haven't read all the post from every person in this thread.. We have killed Archimonde 3 times now, 2 pre patch and once after the patch. But the kill after patch we had on him was with 3 Shamans and with a bit of luck. Yesterday and the day before that we wiped on him for ages it felt like... This time we only had 2 Shamans. Anyway, my 'question' about this fight is is it possible to Resist the Doomfire? Because from the problems we had yesterday it was mostly the Doomfire who made us wiped.. This is something I came up on after the raid so dident get the chance to try it out with Fire Res gear. I'm 99,9% sure about you are able to resist the Doomfire Debuff, because I remember I resisted from time to time something whenever I got close to a doomfire.. But I also know that if you getting the Debuff you wont be able to resist the DoT you having on you.
Someone tested with High Fire Rest and walking in the Doomfires? Because with this problem gone it would only be two problems left. Airburst + Curse. The fear aint a problem because it will be also solved with Fire Res and our Tank havent failed the FearBreaking except the first trys on Archimonde(a couple of weeks ago that is).
Ofc Melee shouldn't really need this Fire Res, why is because they have so many Fear Breaks already.. Warriors, Berserker rage, deathwise and trinket(maybe even wotf). Rogues, trinket, wotf and skillcloak. Druids on the other hand aint really a big problem either because they can always go up and heal themself if needed.
But would be nice to see if someone tested it or not.. The thing with having High Fire Resist.
Stack the raid like that, and there should be no way you won't win, unless your DPS die horribly and then you wipe to enrage (which shouldn't happen with that many healers/decursers in the first place). We stacked the raid with 5 shamans, 5 decursers and 8 healers and the first time no-one died to "lol i didn't click tears, silly me" we killed it. We still had 3 people die on the kill, which hurt a lot (soul charges ftl) but we didn't wipe. It's a fight where you can recover from soul charge - it just requires a lot of paying attention (and if you weren't paying attention in the first place, what the hell were you doing in the raid anyway?).
I haven't read all the post from every person in this thread.. We have killed Archimonde 3 times now, 2 pre patch and once after the patch. But the kill after patch we had on him was with 3 Shamans and with a bit of luck. Yesterday and the day before that we wiped on him for ages it felt like... This time we only had 2 Shamans. Anyway, my 'question' about this fight is is it possible to Resist the Doomfire? Because from the problems we had yesterday it was mostly the Doomfire who made us wiped.. This is something I came up on after the raid so dident get the chance to try it out with Fire Res gear. I'm 99,9% sure about you are able to resist the Doomfire Debuff, because I remember I resisted from time to time something whenever I got close to a doomfire.. But I also know that if you getting the Debuff you wont be able to resist the DoT you having on you.
Someone tested with High Fire Rest and walking in the Doomfires? Because with this problem gone it would only be two problems left. Airburst + Curse. The fear aint a problem because it will be also solved with Fire Res and our Tank havent failed the FearBreaking except the first trys on Archimonde(a couple of weeks ago that is).
Ofc Melee shouldn't really need this Fire Res, why is because they have so many Fear Breaks already.. Warriors, Berserker rage, deathwise and trinket(maybe even wotf). Rogues, trinket, wotf and skillcloak. Druids on the other hand aint really a big problem either because they can always go up and heal themself if needed.
Dunno about FR, sounds not very useful to me. Very high sta gear however helps a lot. And there is plenty of good sta gear for all classes that won't lessen your dps that much. Just make sure cloth users are well above 10k.
Also as it was pointed out in this post, you can douse the doomfire by running into the lake. It will silence you for 30s but if multiple guys were hit by that, it is certainly a good idea to do that.
Stack the raid like that, and there should be no way you won't win, unless your DPS die horribly and then you wipe to enrage (which shouldn't happen with that many healers/decursers in the first place). We stacked the raid with 5 shamans, 5 decursers and 8 healers and the first time no-one died to "lol i didn't click tears, silly me" we killed it. We still had 3 people die on the kill, which hurt a lot (soul charges ftl) but we didn't wipe. It's a fight where you can recover from soul charge - it just requires a lot of paying attention (and if you weren't paying attention in the first place, what the hell were you doing in the raid anyway?).
This is basically an ideal setup obviously. Also for resisting doomfire - you will always resist doomfire strike, and I believe you resist doomfire more readily as you are further from the graphic. In fact you "Catch on fire" with the graphic well before taking damage. But check your logs, the initial strike is always resisted.
I love comments like "there should be no way you won't win." Could you give me the recipe for every boss so we can never wipe again? If those 3 deaths had been priests I'm relatively sure you wouldn't have won that pull.
One thing people can do is keep pushing through as best as possible through soul charges, because sometimes even a chain of 2-3 deaths is manageable, and often times people just shut down there. However, a silence is going to kill you more often than not.
We just spent our first full session in with Archimonde. Eight hours of wipes in very quick to....reasonably quick succession and I'm knackered. Having read this thread and the others like it beforehand, I was a bit daunted by the whole thing. After experiencing the amazing power of Archie's wonderful array of 'I win' buttons first hand, I'm still a little daunted but equally optimistic.
I liked the way that a lot of the 'There's no sodding way I could get out of that' situations that occured over the first few hours slowly became 'Well yeah, if I did x I could actually get out of it now' and people started to 'get' the fight.
What I'm optimistic about is that I think we can quickly get to a point where no one is doing anything specifically wrong. Going ten minutes without a screw up certainly isn't beyond the realms of possibility. Yet what worries me is firstly the speed and regularity at which a decent attempt (our best was around 50% I think) can go totally tits up in such a spectacular fashion with no one particular person at fault and secondly, and even more so, the class stacking that the fight pretty much demands. One of our shamans or decursers can't make the next raid; I know it should certainly be a tricky fight, but should that really be a showstopper?
At the moment I can only agree with previous posters that some of Archimondes abilities need to put others on cooldowns in order to reduce the amount of 'you lose' instacombos. Or certain conditions mean immunity to others, Doomfired can't be gripped or something.
After one day, I think it's a really fun encounter. The usual multi-tasking but with the Airburst minigame thrown in for good measure. But I can just imagine how frustrating some of the randomness could be after a few days.
07/20/07, 6:43 PM
