So I haven't done Archimonde in a few weeks, but you get that the targeting circle is gigantically larger than it has been since 2.4 right? The hit box is the same but the targeting circle is not at all the same. When 2.4 came out the smaller targeting circles confused the crap out of people. Now they are back to what they were pre-2.4 and maybe they are confusing people again.
I'm not saying Doomfire behavior has or has not changed, I'm just telling you my guild was positive Supremus was doing something different after 2.4 came out. And once they adjusted to the fact that the targeting circle was the only different thing, they no longer believed he was doing anything different.
Jesus don't want me in a sunbeam
Sunbeams are always made on me
Don't expect me to cry, for all the reasons I'm gonna die
Don't ever ask your kick of me.
We have been trying Archimonde for some time and we're actually familiar with that drawing; that has happened to us more than once. Reading here that doomfire moves completely on a random path, we thought it was the normal behaviour of doomfire and just lived with it.
Kytra, I understand what you're saying... but, bear with me...
If your drawing is accurate, and your melee is now standing outside the targeting circle....
Are you sure your melee is the same distance from Archimonde it was last week? Without even being there, I'm not sure. The targeting circle was tiny last week. Unless your melee religiously works to hit him from max melee range without regard for the circle -- which I doubt it does -- they were probably somewhere else. So the observed path of the Doomfire you are seeing now could easily be an imagined changed based on melee picking a new location by anchoring itself on the newly re-enlarged targeting circle.
Before you tell me this is impossible, consider that it just might be possible. And if you move the melee in your crude drawing in 3 yards, those two "fire paths" would not see so radically different. I can tell you for certain that not every Doomfire spokes out from Archimdone in a perfect radius. It never has.
Before you tell me this is impossible, consider that it just might be possible. And if you move the melee in your crude drawing in 3 yards, those two "fire paths" would not see so radically different. I can tell you for certain that not every Doomfire spokes out from Archimdone in a perfect radius. It never has.
I'm putting up a FRAPS of the one in my diagram now on video.google but it's taking forever to actually go live.
I've got another clip from tonight of it spawning and then IMMEDIATELY going between Archimonde's legs, something that I've never seen happen off the spawn (I've see it turn around, then go through his legs, but that's not what we're discussing here).
Fuck google video, Youtube was faster. The Doomfire to which I took offense was the last one shown in this short video.
Not the first one, the second or third one. At 15 seconds you see the doomfire spawn, as well as the 'sprite' pointing the way for the fire. It goes straight between his legs, through the hitbox, immediately after melee spawn.
The other fire that seems to be confusing the issue is, upon watching the video more carefully, clearly headed in the opposite direction.
Jesus don't want me in a sunbeam
Sunbeams are always made on me
Don't expect me to cry, for all the reasons I'm gonna die
Don't ever ask your kick of me.
Alright, it looks weird from the video, but having seen it cut directly through him at least once before I don't know if behavior has changed yet. I suppose here we need more reports. I also think you should have your melee stand closer. Just a bit closer, but closer.
EDIT: It sounds like Archimonde is a disaster right now. Ignore what I've written because for the time being I'm going to assume Onyxia is deep-breathing more until further notice, i.e. this encounter is "broken".
Alright, it looks weird from the video, but having seen it cut directly through him at least once before I don't know if behavior has changed yet. I suppose here we need more reports. I also think you should have your melee stand closer. Just a bit closer, but closer.
EDIT: It sounds like Archimonde is a disaster right now. Ignore what I've written because for the time being I'm going to assume Onyxia is deep-breathing more until further notice, i.e. this encounter is "broken".
Awaiting news from blue.
Disaster indeed, but only in terms of doomfire. While last night I did see it do some crazy shit (practically a 360 circle around archimonde himself) it also has potential for overlap. Did anyone mention he also targets the MT for Airburst, oddly enough it happened at 11% and had tears ready, thank god my back wasn't to the tree of eternity. Overall though the fight is not really anymore difficult than it was pre-patch, just annoying new doomfire mechanics.
Yes we noticed the same thing. Fires were abnormally all over the melee. In fact on our kill I (the MT) was completely circled 2-3 times to the point where I had to move him twice so I wouldn't cause crazy amounts of extra healing on me.
Oddly enough I was targetted for Air burst 2-3 times as well, but was never punted. I also fraps it by chance actually, I'll review the video and post anything I notice to back or discount the doomfire now hits the hitbox always theory.
For our kill last night, the flames definitely seemed to be spawning closer to him than normal, and there were some odd paths, but they seemed to behave normally with the exception that they seemed to be able to target melee. Melee dealt with it and we downed him. Melee DPS wasn't as high as it usually is on this fight as a result, but for the most part it seemed manageable. We didn't experience tank being targeted for air-burst, but even so an air-bursted tank isn't a 'we lose' situation for us in most cases.
I'm also thinking that the target circle size change was confusing the melee. They said on more than one occasion 'his hit box is much smaller than it was' along with other similar comments.
Our first attempt wiped out the melee in fairly short order, while our second attempt was a kill. A bit different, but no less do-able.
Fire will now spawn -much- closer to Archimonde, and the pathing is entirely random.
Fire can target and chase Melee. Never possible pre 2.4.2.
Archimonde's hit box size has been increased
MT's are now able to be targetted by Air Burst.
OK. Firstly, Gessuss's post is simply repeating mmo-champion stuff, without attribution. Secondly, I would bet my left bollock that one of the main sources for the mmo-champion post itself is this thread. So we have a bunch of mostly unsubstantiated rumours going found feeding off themselves.
I just wanted to add - I'm in no way saying that this doesn't make the fight more difficult, because it does. It was especially hard on the tank and his healers - he took 300k more fire damage this week than he usually takes.
We were also much closer to the enrage timer than usual. We hit 10% right around 9 min 30 seconds.
Personally, I feel like it was intended, as it makes the fight seem more on the end-boss difficulty level rather than a pushover once you get people to click tears and not stand in fire.
I just wanted to add - I'm in no way saying that this doesn't make the fight more difficult, because it does. It was especially hard on the tank and his healers - he took 300k more fire damage this week than he usually takes.
We were also much closer to the enrage timer than usual. We hit 10% right around 9 min 30 seconds.
Personally, I feel like it was intended, as it makes the fight seem more on the end-boss difficulty level rather than a pushover once you get people to click tears and not stand in fire.
Perhaps, but blizzard rarely "buffs" a boss such an extreme amount 1+ year after content is released. They fixed a lot of the targeting mechanics broken in 2.4, I would assume that the fires were broken in that as believing they are "buffing" year old content seems counter intuitive to their consistent philosophy of making older content easier.
I just wanted to add - I'm in no way saying that this doesn't make the fight more difficult, because it does. It was especially hard on the tank and his healers - he took 300k more fire damage this week than he usually takes.
We were also much closer to the enrage timer than usual. We hit 10% right around 9 min 30 seconds.
Personally, I feel like it was intended, as it makes the fight seem more on the end-boss difficulty level rather than a pushover once you get people to click tears and not stand in fire.
Honestly no, the fight wasn't anymore difficult, I can not agree twith that at all. It is exactly the same fight, staying away from fire just becomes slightly more dynamic. Despite melee dps being perhaps a bit lower than normal he still died with 4:30~ left without pushing hard in any shape or form. This bosses enrage timer only exists so you don't try to do the fight with 24 healers, it is no where near the definition of a dps enrage.
As for the MMO points, I honestly don't think doomfire is spawning any closer to him -- it still appeared to spawn 5-10 yards from his body, but it can turn around and cross straight through Archimonde himself which maybe makes it appear that way.
Last edited by Regen : 05/14/08 at 3:39 PM.
Reason: grammar
On a side note, we did Supremus and maybe I'm just used to just tanking but I had thought his fires were either straight or made "L's"?. But last night the fire behaved almost like Archimonde, spawning right on me MT'n and wrapping around Supremus in a perfect horse shoe. The fight is still easy, but maybe blizzard changed how fires work in general?
Honestly no, the fight wasn't anymore difficult, I can not agree twith that at all. It is exactly the same fight, staying away from fire just becomes slightly more dynamic. Despite melee dps being perhaps a bit lower than normal [snip]
Clearly, it's not "exactly the same fight" or "wasn't anymore difficult" if "staying away from fire just becomes slightly more dynamic". The fire is the difficult part of the fight (airburst doesn't really count), if it acts more random/more penal to the melee then the fight has increased in difficulty. You can argue by how much, but it's still a buff to Archi.
We tried Archimonde today and after a few dodgy pulls which we gave up with mainly due to all the 'hype' on changes, I observed very little difference in the fight, bar the fire moving randomly, therefore melee needing to move.
A lot of people were making noises about changes and concentrating less on getting out of the fire - especially melee who were used to a tank n spank.
We decided to leave this boss until there is some response from Blizzard - however, my personal opinion is that he has just been tuned up from the loot pinata he was once your ranged could stay out of the fire.
A lot of people were making noises about changes and concentrating less on getting out of the fire - especially melee who were used to a tank n spank.
We decided to leave this boss until there is some response from Blizzard - however, my personal opinion is that he has just been tuned up from the loot pinata he was once your ranged could stay out of the fire.
We did the same. I would disagree that it's intentional though, if only because it makes the fight more random, which is something that Blizzard had been moving away from with successive iterations of the fight, as well as the fact that, well, Illidan is fairly anti-Melee, having a boss that isn't is better for everyone's feelings.
As a side-note: Hortus has said that he would look into a matter in the thread on R&D.
And to be honest, someone from a once-world-Top10 guild saying "It's fine, we almost killed him" sounds a whole lot like "Magtheridon is perfect! We've almost got the second channeler down!"
Jesus don't want me in a sunbeam
Sunbeams are always made on me
Don't expect me to cry, for all the reasons I'm gonna die
Don't ever ask your kick of me.
We did the same. I would disagree that it's intentional though, if only because it makes the fight more random, which is something that Blizzard had been moving away from with successive iterations of the fight, as well as the fact that, well, Illidan is fairly anti-Melee, having a boss that isn't is better for everyone's feelings.
As a side-note: Hortus has said that he would look into a matter in the thread on R&D.
And to be honest, someone from a once-world-Top10 guild saying "It's fine, we almost killed him" sounds a whole lot like "Magtheridon is perfect! We've almost got the second channeler down!"
Fair point on all accounts; It was a bit of a hasty post in frustration more than anything - there are, as you say plenty of fights in which ranged have the upper hand.
The frustration ties in with your closing statement which I whole-heartedly agree with. We (Original Celebrity Members) have long since gone our seperate ways and I am raiding with a different guild now 8/9 in BT. The players are good but progress has been fast for some and as a guild we dont have the gear to soak up mistakes on our, or - more importantly in this case - Blizzard's part.
Very glad it has been hotfixed.
Now to update my current guild and go back to lurking.
I've been on Archimonde attempts for a couple of weeks now and I have to say Im still a bit confused on how its easier for melee to dps. Im probably in the wrong spot because contrary to what im told we have constant fire danger, they seem to spawn infront or right next to melee, and I find myself runnning away and not dsping quite often.
The melee are told to stand at max melee range so that they dont get the MT air burst, is that true?
Can melee stand in a closer position and have fires spawn behind them and not worry about fires running into them?
I've been on Archimonde attempts for a couple of weeks now and I have to say Im still a bit confused on how its easier for melee to dps. Im probably in the wrong spot because contrary to what im told we have constant fire danger, they seem to spawn infront or right next to melee, and I find myself runnning away and not dsping quite often.
The melee are told to stand at max melee range so that they dont get the MT air burst, is that true?
Can melee stand in a closer position and have fires spawn behind them and not worry about fires running into them?
Air Burst has a fairly small radius where it will toss others as well. It's small enough that you should be able to stand inside of where the flames spawn and not get the tank, but if you do get targeted for burst I'd recommend stepping away from the tank just to be sure (air burst doesn't toss you and those around you in the air the instant you get it - it counts down then pops, so you do have time to move.) Most of the time our melee players are able to move quickly enough so that only the player targeted is tossed.
BigWigs gives a proximity box for airburst which I have never found to be inaccurate. Just make sure the MT's name doesn't appear in the box and you should be fine. (And yes, that means you can stand well inside Archimonde's hitbox.)
05/14/08, 12:59 AM
