Automated Guild Progress Ranking

Edghar · 07/03/07, 1:41 PM

Note: I did not create/write this, I am posting this for Aspir of Bloodscalp-US who has created quite and amazing tool.

For the past two months I've been tinkering away at a site for automating PVE guild progression ranking (only US guilds right now). The problem with other guild ranking sites I've seen is that they always required someone to manually update their profile to say they've killed such and such boss. Using the World of Warcraft Armory I'm able to "just know" what bosses a guild must have killed. This method seems to be working pretty well, and giving results that I would expect both across my realm and the US (to the best of my knowledge). I know it's not perfect, but I believe it works pretty well.

So, here I introduce WowJutsu Guild Rankings: http://www.wowjutsu.com

My code updates the top 1000 guilds (and the guilds on my realm) every day, and other guilds through the week as possible.

I thought the people on these forums may be interested in some of the statistics I've gathered from the 10000+ guilds that I am currently ranking (You can see these on the site itself, but I'm posting them here for easy access and for those who may not care to even visit the site). These numbers represent of the 10000+ guilds how many have either gotten any kill in the given instance or killed a specific boss from the instance:

Karazhan                   100.00%
Rokad the Ravager           12.37%
Hyakiss the Lurker          14.25%
Shadikith the Glider        11.37%
Attumen the Huntsman        99.01%
Moroes                      98.30%
Maiden of Virtue            97.33%
Romulo & Julianne           96.44%
The Big Bad Wolf            96.63%
The Crone                   96.80%
The Curator                 92.59%
Terestian Illhoof           65.95%
Shade of Aran               80.65%
Netherspite                 52.31%
Chess Event                 90.94%
Prince Malchezaar           75.49%
Nightbane                   54.14%

Gruul's Lair                55.49%
High King Maulgar           52.60%
Gruul the Dragonkiller      39.00%

Magtheridon's Lair          18.55%

Serpentshrine Cavern        11.36%
Hydross the Unstable         9.36%
The Lurker Below             8.93%
Leotheras the Blind          5.08%
Fathom-Lord Karathress       6.49%
Morogrim Tidewalker          7.33%
Lady Vashj                   2.47%

The Eye                     13.09%
Al'ar                        2.73%
Void Reaver                 13.06%
High Astromancer Solarian    2.20%
Kael'Thas Sunstrider         0.85%

Hyjal Summit                 0.75%
Rage Winterchill             0.74%
Anetheron                    0.50%
Kaz'rogal                    0.26%
Azgalor                      0.24%
Archimonde                   0.14%

The Black Temple             0.56%
High Warlord Naj'entus       0.56%
Supremus                     0.53%
Gurtogg Bloodboil            0.16%
Teron Gorefiend              0.33%
Shade of Akama               0.46%
Reliquary of Souls           0.07%
Mother Shahraz               0.03%
Illidari Council             0.01%
Illidan Stormrage            0.01%
Doomwalker                   7.21%
Doom Lord Kazzak             9.41%

Malan · 07/03/07, 1:43 PM

Are these numbers generated by examining what loot people in the guild have equipped, and what boss they came from?

Elendril · 07/03/07, 1:44 PM

Well, I know it has our progress wrong, so I'm not really sure it works

What's the method it uses to track these things?

• Vykromond · 07/03/07, 1:45 PM

I'm also curious. I presume it's making equip checks to see if a guild has members of the appropriate loot, but I'm leery of putting too much stock into these results until I know how he "just knows"

That said, this looks pretty amazing.

edit:

Yes, it also creates a cache of loot that it has seen to account for people replacing loot down the line. Otherwise we would see guilds losing their earlier kills.

Cool, this is what I was looking to find out. (and it's not in the FAQ)

Edghar · 07/03/07, 1:45 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

Are these numbers generated by examining what loot people in the guild have equipped, and what boss they came from?

Yes, it also creates a cache of loot that it has seen to account for people replacing loot down the line. Otherwise we would see guilds losing their earlier kills. I can't speak for all realms, but I've been paying pretty close attention to the creation of this site, and our server is quite accurate for progression.

Edghar · 07/03/07, 1:46 PM

The FAQ has most of the answers you might be looking for: http://www.wowjutsu.com/faq.html

diospadre · 07/03/07, 1:47 PM

This is really neat.

Aspir · 07/03/07, 1:47 PM

Hi, I'm the author of the above-mentioned tool. Thank you Edghar for starting off the post here. I didn't have quite enough posts yet to do it on my own.

Originally Posted by Malan

Are these numbers generated by examining what loot people in the guild have equipped, and what boss they came from?

That's exactly correct. I cross reference loot that I know drop from the different bosses with what I see on players in the armory and use that to determine who has killed what.

I know one thing with the armory is that it won't show loot right away, but wowjutsu catalogs what it finds on players, so eventually (as long as it's not DE'd) it will see that piece of loot on the player and flag the guild appropriately.

• Shifft · 07/03/07, 1:47 PM

Seems to be accurate for our current progression. The biggest problem i could see though is in the case of sidegrade loot, or members who log out in their PvP gear and never get armory to register the new drops.

• Wodin · 07/03/07, 1:48 PM

It's not perfect due to the lag time and need to populate the monster loot tables(for example, I know we've killed Gurtogg :P), but that's a really spiffy idea and a great use of the Armory. Kudos to Aspir for putting in the hard work to make it go.

Groglox · 07/03/07, 1:49 PM

Elitist Jerks needs to hurry up and kill Gurtogg!

It is a neat site, but given that some of those are not quite accurate it should probably be taken as a rough estimate. A guild who has recently progressed doesn't show up as having done so, therefore working on hyjal having just killed kael probably wouldn't show up on the Hyjal / BT part. Or so it seems.

edit: beat in the 30 seconds I was posting >.< Blast you wodin.

edit2: I am curious, wouldn't transfers from farther progressed areas mess up the order of things?

Pudgeball · 07/03/07, 1:52 PM

Wow... This is really a great idea. I would imagine it takes a few days here and there to update (Example, killed Bloodboil last night and it doesn't show).

Aspir · 07/03/07, 1:53 PM

Originally Posted by Elendril

Well, I know it has our progress wrong, so I'm not really sure it works

What's the method it uses to track these things?

Is the problem that it has flagged you for kills you don't have yet, or that it is not flagging you for kills you do have? Could you elaborate, please sir?

As far as method, I'm sure if you read the faq it'll help clarify things, but basically I pull the data from the armory and cross reference that with known boss drops.

I know BT and Hyjal drops aren't completely quantified yet, so I glean most of my boss drops from mmo-champion.com and wowhead, with a little wowwiki and EQDKP tables from high ranking guild sites. So admittedly there is decent chance for error!

♦ Praetorian · 07/03/07, 1:53 PM

This is really cool. I want to know who in EJ wore an item from Rokad the Ravager, and why!

• Vykromond · 07/03/07, 1:53 PM

Originally Posted by Aspir

Hi, I'm the author of the above-mentioned tool. Thank you Edghar for starting off the post here. I didn't have quite enough posts yet to do it on my own.

That's exactly correct. I cross reference loot that I know drop from the different bosses with what I see on players in the armory and use that to determine who has killed what.

I know one thing with the armory is that it won't show loot right away, but wowjutsu catalogs what it finds on players, so eventually (as long as it's not DE'd) it will see that piece of loot on the player and flag the guild appropriately.

Aspir:

What if a guild recruits a player who has gear from bosses higher in progression than those the guild has killed? I guess this is a corner case but to me it seems like a pretty big confounder every time it happens. For instance I can remember a player with the Dreamwalker chest-piece transferring to our server from another and joining one of the guilds which hadn't even killed Maexxna at the time. It seems that WoWJutsu's current iteration would then count that guild as having beaten everything through the Four Horsemen.

Not sure how to fix this easily, maybe you have some thoughts.

This is really cool. I want to know who in EJ wore an item from Rokad the Ravager, and why!

Hey, some of the Basement bosses' permutations can be quite good. I know I would have killed for a str/agi leather bracer for a while.

Edghar · 07/03/07, 1:54 PM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

This is really cool. I want to know who in EJ wore an item from Rokad the Ravager, and why!

Looks like the culprit is Caen the rogue.

http://www.wowjutsu.com/us/malganis/g-elitistjerks.html

Aspir · 07/03/07, 1:55 PM

Originally Posted by Groglox

edit2: I am curious, wouldn't transfers from farther progressed areas mess up the order of things?

Absolutely, but unfortunately I couldn't think of a way to handle this. Perhaps I could look at disparity (most members in kara loot then some guy in T5, for example) but right now I just accept that server transfers could mess things up. Anyone have any suggestions here?

Elendril · 07/03/07, 1:55 PM

Originally Posted by Aspir

Is the problem that it has flagged you for kills you don't have yet, or that it is not flagging you for kills you do have? Could you elaborate, please sir?

As far as method, I'm sure if you read the faq it'll help clarify things, but basically I pull the data from the armory and cross reference that with known boss drops.

I know BT and Hyjal drops aren't completely quantified yet, so I glean most of my boss drops from mmo-champion.com and wowhead, with a little wowwiki and EQDKP tables from high ranking guild sites. So admittedly there is decent chance for error!

It doesn't have some of our kills. Our BT kills are recent so Armory may not have updated anyone with items from them, and I don't know if anyone actually wears any Kazzak/Doomwalker loot, so I could see that as being the issue.

Pudgeball · 07/03/07, 1:56 PM

One recommendation! Putting PvE or PvP next to each server name would be good for recruitment reasons for guilds.

♦ Praetorian · 07/03/07, 1:56 PM

Originally Posted by Edghar

Looks like the culprit is Caen the rogue.

http://www.wowjutsu.com/us/malganis/g-elitistjerks.html

Oh nice, didn't even realize it had detailed info on that level.

♦ Praetorian · 07/03/07, 1:57 PM

Originally Posted by Pudgeball

Not sure if Aspir would ever read this

Umm....

Gwaihir · 07/03/07, 1:57 PM

It looked to me that it is giving each guild a point score for the number of their members with loot from a certain boss, so one outlying transfer might not skew the results too much? At the very least it should be obvious looking at the guild when only one person has an item from a boss 2-3 steps ahead of teir current progression.

Groglox · 07/03/07, 1:59 PM

Originally Posted by Aspir

Absolutely, but unfortunately I couldn't think of a way to handle this. Perhaps I could look at disparity (most members in kara loot then some guy in T5, for example) but right now I just accept that server transfers could mess things up. Anyone have any suggestions here?

I would suggest maybe needing 2 -3 pieces of loot from a boss for it to show up, that way since any given boss drops X amount of loot, it would register as a kill, but hopefully weed out misnomers?

Aspir · 07/03/07, 2:00 PM

Originally Posted by Vykromond

Aspir:

What if a guild recruits a player who has gear from bosses higher in progression than those the guild has killed? I guess this is a corner case but to me it seems like a pretty big confounder every time it happens. For instance I can remember a player with the Dreamwalker chest-piece transferring to our server from another and joining one of the guilds which hadn't even killed Maexxna at the time. It seems that WoWJutsu's current iteration would then count that guild as having beaten everything through the Four Horsemen.

Not sure how to fix this easily, maybe you have some thoughts.

One thing to note here is that the problems mainly come in when a player server transfers. A high ranked player going from one guild to another on the same server shouldn't cause a problem. Take a look at the guild Drama from Korgath: http://www.wowjutsu.com/us/korgath/g-drama.html

Look down in the list to where you see the warrior named Maximum. Loot is initially attributed to the guild you were in when I first saw it, so here with Maximum I know that his pocket watch from Moroes was received while in Drama, so I don't count that loot towards the guild he is in now -- indicated after the double arrow.

Pudgeball · 07/03/07, 2:00 PM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

Umm....

Editing post - thread was moving too quickly