... then figure out a way to make people WANT to world pvp 24/7 ...
Only allow equal numbers from each faction into the zone.
Seriously, there is no way of encouraging large scale world PvP without making it a fair fight - and that means equal numbers of the two factions at the absolute minimum. The world PvP objectives are a joke: they're simply a perma-buff for whichever faction has higher activity.
The article strongly suggests that. It does not strongly suggest that we'll be killing Kil'Jaeden.
Agreed. I highly doubt Kil'Jaeden will be the next target available to us as a raid boss.
However, with that said, for the storyline to advance, we need to somehow 'deal' with the Burning Legion. If we don't kill Kil'Jaeden, what other crippling damage could be done to the Legion? How do we declare them 'dealt with', so that we can move on to the Emerald Dream, Northrend, or whatever?
There was a backlog of raid instances that they filled out as they got more comfortable with designing raid content. Two of these instances were also preceded by complex world events. Not the case in TBC. Moreover, Hyjal and Black Temple might as well not have been accessible on release, so that really leaves only Karazhan for 10-man content and SSC/TK for 25-man content, with Magtheridon and Gruul as mini-raids of sorts.
It was acceptable for WoW to be lacking raid content on release. There were no company precedents, there were no existing raiding guilds, and it was going to take the average player a long time to reach 60 and figure out how to do 5-mans. It would have been foolish to expect players to tolerate that kind of buffer in an expansion pack of a game with a mature raiding base and a much shorter leveling curve.
Again, I don't disagree. The release of the content had to differ significantly. The curious difference, in my mind, is that where end-game content in vanilla WoW was strictly paced (and, some may argue, poorly), BC raid content (barring the implementation of another significant end-game raid, or raids) was all available from day one. What incentive do players with Illidan down have to stick with the game? Granted, we're talking about a half-dozen U.S. guilds, and less than 20 world-wide, but still - is it Blizzard's intention to allow the top-end raid regimes to 'finish' the game and go pay a subscription to some other MMO for the 6-8 months (or more) that they're waiting on the next expansion?
What I anticipate happening, given the track record we've seen in the past, is this:
Blizzard will release 1-2 new major raids before Burning Crusade is finished. In all likelihood, we will see one of the following - an AQ scepter-style quest chain to unlock the next dungeon (minus the excruciating war effort), several single-boss raids (Deathwing, etc.), or one final winged raid, a la Naxxramas.
I'm the opposite. Alliance got shaman in TBC and Horde got paladin. Hybrids now also bring a lot more viable specs to the raid as a whole (all three shaman specs bring something to the raid, for example). Also, even the role of druid and warrior tanks are getting more specialized. There are just some scenarios where druids are much more advantageous tanks and scenarios where warriors are much more advantageous tanks. The changes to shadow priests late in vanilla might as well have made them a separate class from healing priests.
All these specs means that guilds, at least my guild, need a much bigger bench than pre-BC. In vanilla WoW, we basically carried around 50-55 people, aimed for around 80% attendance and around 5 people on the bench. Right now, we're routinely having over 10 people on the bench, just so we have the right specs available every raid time.
It's my opinion that Blizzard needs to develop the boss fights so you don't need a perfect roster for each attempt. Don't make it so loose that it doesn't matter, but allow for some leeway.
I'd also love to see a new class. A Debuff/CC caster class that wears leather and wields 2h'rs? Maybe something based off of auras. They could do a few things. Didn't the origonal design docs for Warlocks call for leather?
How are these unique? Paladins and Shamans are both basically buff/debuff classes that can wield two-handers. Sorry, but making a warlock that wears leather is about the most minor change you could possibly come up with.
It's surprisingly difficult to arrive at a class that brings something to the table in WoW that isn't already covered, and I think Blizzard has a good enough sense of game design that they won't introduce pointless amalgams of existing classes just to add a bulletpoint to the back of the game box.
I was remarking that I thought I remembered that the devs were thinking about giving locks leather, during the design phase of WOW. Not that they should change it now.
I think Paladins and Shamans are more buffers that debuffers. I wouldn't mind seeing a class that could CC multiple mobs at once.
I clarified what I was trying to say a couple posts up. I think you missed it.
I was only talking about the timeframe. Your ideas seem perfectly valid as long as it happens sometime (in my opinion) in the spring of '08.
Yeah. I'm sorry if I came along as wanting an early release. Nobody expects anything before spring 08, so you're safe. My reply was more general, because no matter what, there will be people who are raiding 25 man who will not see Illidan before the next expansion. If not you, the guys just behind you, or a bit behind... Not us, though. We imploded, and no one is really motivated to rebuild to 25 man.
And no, I don't think expansions should be motivated by the high end. Like I said, I think I misunderstood what you were trying to say. I think we'll see a couple 10 mans, and another 25, maybe 2, before the next expansion, which will provide avenues for both crowds.
I'm not so sure. Zul'Aman will be the next 10 man, but I don't see them pushing a second 10-man. Maybe a BT/BT+ zone, even though there will be less people enjoying such than people going into ZA.
Beyond that 1-2 zone(s), don't expect anything else. If they shoot for a late spring expansion, they're not going to invest beyond those two additional zones. Zul Aman is probably a late september/october zone, which is going to last the 10-man raider nearly as long as they took for Karazhan, and whatever 25-man appears is going to come november at earliest - which means it's probably good enough for 4-5 months up to the expansion.
It's not that I don't want the cap raised, just not now. Your ideas implemented next summer seem perfectly reasonable.
I think they're shooting for far earlier than summer.
of course, being Blizzard, it's going to end up as a summer release in the end
A summoning class is not in wow, unless you consider warlocks to be summoners, so necromancer would work. Also a melee magic class would work as well. Runemasters ( I think that is their name, have been mentioned in lore books and played by tauren / dwarves in concept art) fit this concept well. I think their best bet is to give them an interesting rage/ energy mechanic to keep them fresh rather than have just another mana user.
Also, having overlapping classes is not a bad thing. It allows more people customization and diversity in their playstyle. While dps warriors and rogues are both melee dps and generally fill the exact same role in WoW, by no means are they the same.
It's my opinion that Blizzard needs to develop the boss fights so you don't need a perfect roster for each attempt. Don't make it so loose that it doesn't matter, but allow for some leeway.
I'd argue that this is already the case. That many encounters are made easier with a balanced raid including hybrids of various specs is a testament to the devs' attempt to make as many specs as possible contribute something valuable to a raid. There is enough redundancy in role-filling that raid make-up really is quite flexible. The single exception I can think of to this notion is shadowpriests; their contribution can't be duplicated by any other class/spec and I think the majority of high-end raid leaders would say 1 or 2 of them is compulsory for bleeding-edge content.
Blizzard will release 1-2 new major raids before Burning Crusade is finished. In all likelihood, we will see one of the following - an AQ scepter-style quest chain to unlock the next dungeon (minus the excruciating war effort), several single-boss raids (Deathwing, etc.), or one final winged raid, a la Naxxramas.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see one additional 25-man raid, but I would be surprised if we see two of them. They have two competing goals here: to introduce current content to keep people interesting in the game, and saving future content for thorough, polished expansion packs. There is an existing base of raid content in TBC, but some guilds have conquered it already, and more will be heading down that path in the near future. There's a pretty strong incentive for Blizzard to release something that's very difficult to keep players occupied until the expansion.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see one additional 25-man raid, but I would be surprised if we see two of them. They have two competing goals here: to introduce current content to keep people interesting in the game, and saving future content for thorough, polished expansion packs. There is an existing base of raid content in TBC, but some guilds have conquered it already, and more will be heading down that path in the near future. There's a pretty strong incentive for Blizzard to release something that's very difficult to keep players occupied until the expansion.
In saying two, I was referring to Zul'Aman, or the possibility of yet another Onyxia-style dungeon (in the form of Deathwing, or whatever they have planned for Uldum, etc.).
The likelihood of two more full-blown 25-man raids is very slim, you're right.
I expect we'll see one, though. It wouldn't surprise me to see 100+ guilds with Illidan down in the next 6-8 weeks, given how progression has gone so far. Most of the top 100 guilds in the U.S. alone 2/5 Hyjal and 3/9 BT or better. Adding new top-end content wouldn't be unreasonable come early Q4.
Mmm, I'm really skeptical of this. It's practically canon that Deathwing isn't there currently (back in Azeroth), so unless you want to fight a bunch of his lessers, I really don't see this as the culmination of TBC.
P.S. I say "practically" because his current whereabouts are in fact unknown, but his last known location was on Azeroth.
I was thinking about this samething this morning.
But then it occured to me, we've defeated Onyxia, we've defeated Nefarian. Why not a third son/daugther?
I mean, there surely are members of the Black Dragonflight in Outlands. Unless I am horribly mistaken, while most of the dragons in Shadowmoon Valley are Netherdragons, the majority in Netherstorm are also Netherdragons (counting the two or three blue dragons there), the ones in Blade's Edge and atleast one in Shadowmoon seem to be pure Black. Surely they must have some form of leader, if not Deathwing himself, then some sort of regent.
A Nefarian of Outlands, if you will? Hell, I can even speculate that perhaps the Infinite Dragonflight is born from here, rather than from in Azeroth.
There is also the possibility of more Chromatics. It was known that Deathwing was experimenting on Chromatics, and sure we "believe" he failed and Nefarian began finishing his work, but we know little of what Deathwing did in Outlands.
Perhaps his lair is filled with more Chromatics?
If anything, I personally, if such an instance does exist, I don't believe this would be a large instance. I am thinking Onyxia or Magtheridon size, and at most a Tempest Keep size. 1 to 4 bosses, super-casual friendly.
Perhaps with "off-set" items, similar to either Zul'Gurub or Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj.
One thing to note, just because Illidian is the final boss does not mean they could not add "filler" 10 mans here and there. I'd certainly like to see a little bit more in regards to Osh'gun in Nagrand.
On another note, wasn't there a CM, I believe Netherea, who mentioned a month or two ago Blizzard was "revisiting" something and it would be a surprise?
(Personally, I know its a long shot, but I am gambling this "surprise" is either heroic Deadmines or re-tuned Naxxramas).
A summoning class is not in wow, unless you consider warlocks to be summoners, so necromancer would work. Also a melee magic class would work as well. Runemasters ( I think that is their name, have been mentioned in lore books and played by tauren / dwarves in concept art) fit this concept well. I think their best bet is to give them an interesting rage/ energy mechanic to keep them fresh rather than have just another mana user.
Also, having overlapping classes is not a bad thing. It allows more people customization and diversity in their playstyle. While dps warriors and rogues are both melee dps and generally fill the exact same role in WoW, by no means are they the same.
A melee magic class? I had this discussion in guild yesterday, but isn't that what an enhancement shaman is? Or even a retribution paladin?
Actually, topic in guild was about monks. And personally, I see no place for monks when we have rogues, shamans, paladins and priests.
A melee based class that uses fists with auras and chakra or what not? Well okay, a rogue "lore" wise isn't very similar, but mechanic wise, weapons with poisons. Seems concievable.
Shaman too, especially enhancement, melee based class that uses magical buffs such as their totems to increase their damage.
I think the game is lacking a true debuffing class, however. Honestly, the best debuffer is Warlocks and it seems like they were originally intended to be a pure debuffer with mages being better nukers. But warlock debuffs, to me, just seem lacking. What? 1 warlock can only do 1 debuff at a time? I am not counting "DoT" spells, I don't consider those true "debuffs".
We have two classes that offer pure enhancements: blessings, auras, totems. Anyways, I for one, hope for Blizzard not to add a class purely so they can say they added a new class. If a new class goes in, it should have a specific, well-defined role.
I'd be pretty happy if they shifted focus back to Azeroth, or even some other planet/dimension. Seriously, when I learned of that whole plotline where the Blood Elves were coming disturbingly close to blowing up Outland, I realized that I really didn't care. For the most part the place is a wasteland, and it looks like it's going to fall apart in a couple of years on its own. Does anyone care about it, beyond its minor significance as a staging ground for the Burning Legion?
World of Warcraft won't end until Blizzard decides to actually shut the servers down. We are a long way from that if EQ can be used as a precedence.
True but what I meant was full attention to development. When will the main focus at Blizzard shift from WOW and move to another MMO leaving WOW with a less that whats there now as far a man power? It's bound to happen. Blizzard will eventually want to make a greater and shinier game.
True but what I meant was full attention to development. When will the main focus at Blizzard shift from WOW and move to another MMO leaving WOW with a less that whats there now as far a man power? It's bound to happen. Blizzard will eventually want to make a greater and shinier game.
They will scale back as it suits the game, but I think it will be a while before they totally drop it down to a skeleton crew. MMO's can cling to life for quite a long time with a dedicated following.
They will scale back as it suits the game, but I think it will be a while before they totally drop it down to a skeleton crew. MMO's can cling to life for quite a long time with a dedicated following.
WoW will likely see 1-2 more expansions from a solid dev crew, then begin to get scaled back (smaller servers closed down, etc.).
Given that WoW has hit something of a ceiling in terms of playerbase, I would expect it to shrink by ~30% over the next 8-12 months. People will begin moving on after 3 full years.
I agree with the point someone made above about Blizzard running out of major villains. I think it is time to advance the story back on Azeroth and generate new archvillains from the plot threads of vanilla WoW in order to keep the stable of nemeses full.
One way to do this would be to create Heroic versions of the old 5-man instances. These 'Classic Heroics' would be populated by level 70 mobs and their themes would assume that the events of vanilla WoW and TBC are in the past. For instance, Heroic Blackrock Depths could be written as follows: Ironforge retakes Blackrock Mountain after the death of Dagran Thaurissan and Ragnaros, and Dark Irons led by the Thorium Brotherhood attempt to reintegrate into mainstream dwarven society. But the leader of the Ironforge occupation force (General Stormpike from AV?) is a traditionalist who cruelly oppresses the Dark Irons, and civil war breaks out beneath Blackrock Mountain. The players can choose to assist either the Ironforge Occupation or the Dark Iron Rebels. Good opportunity for a faction grind with rewards and recipes.
In Heroic Stratholme, the destruction of the Scarlet Cathedral has allowed the Scourge to overrun the city, but the fall of Kel'Thuzad has weakened the Scourge in the Eastern Plaguelands. The Brotherhood of the Light now launches an assault to reclaim the city of Stratholme, but their efforts are hindered by Varimathras as he plots to escape his servitude and avenge the death of Balnazzar.
In Heroic Dire Maul, the death of Prince Tortheldrin and the huge damage to the arcane structures of the sanctum have weakened the barrier between dimensions and opened a potential invasion point for the forces of the Burning Legion. Eredar warlocks and Sunfury blood elves must be prevented from pillaging the research of the ancient structure and opening a gate for the forces of the Burning Legion.
And on and on. I think this would be a good way to add new content while keeping the old stories of WoW fresh and up to date.
Wow. This is a very cool idea that even though it sounds simple and vanilla, I've never heard it proposed and/or it has never occured to me.
I would definately shell out another $50 for such an expansion. Sure would be nice to have some sort of closure.
Heroic Gnomeregan, Gnomes return.
Still, personally, I think the most epic of duels will not be with Arthas or Queen Azshara, but I want to be part of the "War of the Ancients" and there's finally a venue for such a thing in the Cavern of Times.
Wow. This is a very cool idea that even though it sounds simple and vanilla, I've never heard it proposed and/or it has never occured to me.
I would definately shell out another $50 for such an expansion. Sure would be nice to have some sort of closure.
Heroic Gnomeregan, Gnomes return.
Still, personally, I think the most epic of duels will not be with Arthas or Queen Azshara, but I want to be part of the "War of the Ancients" and there's finally a venue for such a thing in the Cavern of Times.
As I recall, the conversation that stemmed off from here indicated that while Blizzard could, in theory, create Heroic versions of previous instances, it has not been incorporated into any existing plans for future content.
I would like to see some focus placed back on Azeroth, but I'm not sure what form it would take yet. Kara and CoT were a good start, but there's got to be more potential than that left in our 'real' Warcraft world.
They will scale back as it suits the game, but I think it will be a while before they totally drop it down to a skeleton crew. MMO's can cling to life for quite a long time with a dedicated following.
I agree. Besides, they still need to finish Starcraft 2 and maybe even a Diablo 3 before going full bore with another MMO. While the teams are mostly separate, they do have shared resources (marketing, QA, maybe some artists, beta testing, CG work, etc.). They might also want to wait for technology to mature a little bit more before going to another full MMO. Lore-wise, too, I think Warcraft is really their most suited property to an MMO, unless they want to make a full world.
Agreed, but I had expected when they said ideally one year instead of two per expansion, that we'd see smaller expansions then a normal Blizzard expansion. All I know is that content is drying up for anyone who only plays one character, and a year with none to minimal progress options would hurt interest in the game for many.
If I remember correctly, wasn't the wording used that they'd like to release an expansion once a year? If so, that gives them some pretty big leeway for a second expansion, since it'd just need to be sometime in 2008 (christmas sounds good!).
But this is Blizzard, and I don't think anyone in their right mind expects quick releases from them. They've never put anything out fast.
As for Jan/Feb release for the next xpac? Yeah, I wouldn't count on it. I think we'll see Starcraft 2 in stores before the next WoW XPac.
07/23/07, 2:57 PM
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