Moved to Does WoW Need More Class Differentiation? because this thread is getting derailed.

I'm the complete opposite. I'm also a very avid raider (guild is starting Kael) and right now, there's nothing I love more than logging in on raid time then logging off after raids. There's simply too much to do, other games to play, movies/TV shows to watch, friends/relatives to spend time with, that I don't want to be playing WoW full time. I love raiding 20 hours a week and still be able to progress well. I can play WoW for 60 hours a week at bursts (like when TBC was just released) but I don't want to do it often.

That's the problem with AAs. If Blizzard adds AAs, they will be required. Simply put, doing them would give you an immense advantage over somebody not doing them. It adds another timesink and a very harmful one at that. It'll be like TBC version 2.0 massive burnouts again but this time you're farming for AAs instead of farming for consumables.

This pretty much sums up my feelings as well, though I probably put in slightly more time per day than Andastra implies, but that ability to log off after raiding and all my "upkeep" tasks are complete in the evening, or not *have* to login on some days to do other stuff is a huge boon in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong -- in many regards, the AA system of EQ was great and having played EQ for some five years, it certainly gave me something to do and you always felt like there was a way to progress your character. But on the flipside, it was also a curse, in that, as others have pointed out, AAs were "required," especially by high-end Guilds (which a good majority of this board is a part of), and as I recall from EQ, if you were a Warrior, you basically needed max level and 300 AAs (in the right places, of course) to even be considered capable of raiding. And as more and more expansions came out, that number kept sliding up and up, to the point that a newcomer needed months of play to even be remotely close to that "baseline standard," without even touching the equipment or raid experience gaps they also faced. It was incredibly daunting, even to someone that was there from the beginning and consistently grew and added those AAs.

From that point of view, they could just have raised the max level to 120 or something and ditched the AA idea. Power increases could've come from leveling (character level vs. mob level mechanics not withstanding of course), because in reality, the concept of AAs was the same thing -- give players something to do that can offer slight increases in power over a long period of time with enough effort.

It's a dangerous concept in my opinion and I'm not entirely sure I'd enjoy it nearly as much as I did back in the EQ days. If WoW was to introduce such a system, the only way I can see it being somewhat reasonable is to set a cap of some sort on the number or speed at which you can attain said points. But even then, the idea would have to be carefully planned, because things like the new daily-quest system introduce the potential for the same "required grind" as the EQ AA system, just in a different format. Imagine, for example, if WoW introduced AA points that could only be earned via daily quests or daily "point gains", by attaining 100,000 experience within a 24 hour period. If you miss a 24 hour period or gain less than 100,000, you don't get your point for that day. Each point is spent on a minor character boost (a stat increase for example).

Fast forward six months, and as others have mentioned, even this "controlled daily system" will not become obsolete and will be a "requirement" for those that want to be even moderately useful in the high-end realm of WoW.

Sure, it's entirely possible you could skip a few days here and there, or ignore the system entirely, and still be somewhat capable in your role, but you'll never compete with those that spend the time. And before anyone makes the point, let me add that I am completely of the mindset that more time spent should equate to more power in game. However, the key ingredient that this sort of system would lack (maybe not right away, but down the road), is fun.

Most high-end raiders, myself included, don't mind, and often enjoy, spending that extra time or effort progressing their character to the limits to gain that minor benefit or advantage. They do so because of one of two reasons: A) It's fun, or B) It's not so fun, but there's a clear goal and stopping point.

Take, for example a more solo or small-group effort that would equate to the EQ-type AA system easily: Reputations or Heroic Badges. In both cases, it's clear to the player that there's a distinct goal. It may be far off, and it may take you 50 hours to attain all 140 Badges you want or Exalted with XYZ faction, but you know once you do so, your goal will be met, your power will be increased, and you'll be done with that task.

In a system of AAs, except in the *most extreme* cases, there is no light at the end of the tunnel. It's an ongoing and constant system that only a very, very small fraction of the community will ever complete. For most people, it never ends, but there's still that expectation from yourself and others around you to do it constantly. That, unfortunately, is more of a job than a fun game experience, and something I'd dread to be introduced into WoW at this point.

So, the bottom line in my opinion, is that an AA type system would be cool and fun and exciting at first within WoW, but would quickly lose it's draw and luster and we'd all become slaves to it, and for (potentially) moderate gains at best.

Got a Blizzcon mail, and didn't see anything about it from the last two pages of the thread. This part sounds interesting:

So basically, they'll put up a blizzcon server which runs the current PTR but modified to have Zul'Aman enabled, and characters copied from the blizzcon copy automatically place them on that server. At the event they'll have people login with their own accounts and the copy is ready to go.

Raid testing Zul'Aman is a far cry from playing the Blood Elf starting area for Burning Crusade at the original Blizzcon.

I hope it's something much more exciting and new. I mean Zul'Aman might be cool yeah, but I couldn't see people lining up in droves to test a raid dungeon which would essentially amount to a glorified PuG.

Zul'Aman is not level 68 content.

The first zone of the next expansion, the "Hellfire Peninsula" of Northrend, is probably available at 68.

My thoughts exactly. Nothing else makes sense.

Yeah the 68-70 got me too, that is a good suggestion that it is probably the first new zone of the expansion

I can't wait to check it out.

If they are releasing playability of a new non-70 zone (as implyed by new 68 content) could we take this as a gppd indication the next expansion has a level cap increase? It would seem a little stupid to have a new zone in TBC just for the sake of it.

Theres been lots of speculation over whether the 2nd expansion will have a level cap increase... (read: 'they wont raise the lvl cap so fast and de-preciate all our hard earned epics within a year of tbc!?!?!) Looks like maybe they will

If they released a new expansion without more lvls, with 70 content, it could easily start at lvl 68 too, just like shadowmoon etc. got lvl 70 content, but starts a bit lower.

They are going to disappoint so many if they dont announce the expansion at all, but just show off some Zul'aman Cant imagine the look of Official forums.

The copy character feature can only mean that the first few zones in the next exp will be playable. Like mentioned previously very few characters could experience ZA or a new 25 man because those place have a high gear requirement.

You might be right, but you are really setting yourself up for some disappointment if you think that it can only mean that. Someone brought up a good point that if they release a new zone centered around the next big villian, that zone will likely be 68-70.

The Sunwell Plateau, previously mentioned, could easily fit into this category, with all the pros and cons of it being the possible next HC dungeon.

I don't think this level 68-70 level restriction should be the one clue that makes people give in to the hope of an expansion being announced at Blizzcon, even though I don't think for a second they won't announce it. It will surely happen, it has to.

Its possible, but ultimately for me it comes back to this. TBC is already an enormous success, they dont need to try and promote TBC or anything 'new' related to TBC (aka an addon zone/raid instance) - its already done its job and done it damn well (keep the original wow subscriber base + elevate it to new levels + sustain it)

It makes more sense IMO if they use Blizzcon (and thus, whatever 'new content' this is) to be promoting something new to drum some longer term interest in wow. Not something that will keep your interest for the next month or few - something thats going to make you eager to play wow for another 1-2 years.

It just wouldnt make business sense to not use this sort of event to give 9 million people a reason they can say 'Yep - ill be playing wow next year' .

I thought about "Northrend Zone 1" too. Same requirement as Outlands and would fit to a prior Northrend Expansion announcement.
Then we will wake up and it really is just Zul'Aman.

What I'd like to see (other than more information concering Zul'Aman) would be the announcing of a new expansion that will introduce us to the Northrend continent (along with a few new possible classes (Death Knight, anyone?) and professions) as well as information to the inevitable conclusion (at least in my eyes) to the Burning Crusade expansion: Kil'jaedan.

Now to deviate slightly off-topic from World of Warcraft, I'd also like to see a playable demo of Starcraft 2! :]

Starcraft 2 will be playable at Blizzcon.

I honestly don't see either a new class or northrend as the next expansion. Yeah, there's howling Fjord files in the game but IMO that proves nothing.

I'd put my money on a Great Sea as an ocean/azeroth cleanup expansion. Lots of Naga, pirates, goblins, sea creatures, etc. Areas visited could include Grim Batol, The Maelstrom, Undermine, Kul'Tiras, Uldum, etc. Azshara crater could be a new BG. I think lots of things would fit in better with something like that instead of jumping straight into Northrend.

Knowing Blizz they could do anything but a sea expansion just feels right.

It's already been said: no attunement, no faction, no nonsense.

As your surmise, it can be a lot of things. One thing it isn't is Zul'Aman. Oh, there might be some Zul'Aman stuff, but it's not the meat and bones of new WoW content at Blizzcon.

Some interesting info here, but this is the worst-written article I've seen in months. Wow, that's barely comprehensible.

Uh huh.