Is anyone else bothered by the WoW/MMO gaming culture? The attitudes I've encountered since January 2005 have amazed me at how...wrong a person can act. I don't want to subject you folks to a lengthy rant so I'll make it brief with some examples.
-Forum trolls. The mere concept of posting just to aggravate a fellow gamer simply baffles me.
-Those with minimal understanding of game mechanics who complain, cry nerf, throw around false information, etc.
-When presenting correct information you're flamed.
-Leetspeak. Ugh.
-Crits = totally awesome. If you kill with a crit string you're an elite gaming god. Be ready to get an earful if you're a healer or DoT class and you aren't owned by their "elite critzorz gaming skills"
-People with a complete lack of an attention span(see above)
-Have you been on the vent servers of some of these guilds? More leetspeak, screaming, harassment, complete lack of respect for others...
-"If I win it's because I'm awesome and you suck. If I lose it's because you're overpowered and have no life."
-The selfish attitudes that nearly everyone has.
The fact that such a large portion of these people are probably quite intelligent and easy to get along with IRL makes it all the worse. Just because you're in a game is no excuse to turn into a blithering idiot. Is it really that difficult to act like a human being? Or am I giving too much credence to the term "human being"?
I'll end my post on something of a lighter note and sum my thoughts up with a nifty diagram from Penny Arcade!
This is worse in FPS'ers... so I'd say it has nothing to do with MMO cultures, and everything to do with adolescents and the idiocy seen when anonymity meets the internet. You basically just described a lot of forums out there.
Edit: yeah the cartoon there sums it up.
For me the forum trolls and flamers killed killed the official blizzard forums. There have been occasions when I've wanted to ask a question but didn't bother as I knew that I'd just get 23 replies of "OMG n00b, you suck!" or "L2P".
This is worse in FPS'ers... so I'd say it has nothing to do with MMO cultures, and everything to do with adolescents and the idiocy seen when anonymity meets the internet. You basically just described a lot of forums out there.
Edit: yeah the cartoon there sums it up.
I suppose so. At least some of the issues are resolved in FPSers. In those when you're involved in a community there's a clear pecking order. You lost because you got outplayed there isn't anything like gear or class to make excuses for.
The WoW raiding culture in particular has been disappointing for me. Once you leave a guild for whatever reason or take a break from raiding, even for a relatively short time, you are replaced and forgotten. People in raiding guilds often spend more time interacting with their guildmates than with their own families, yet very few have any respect for each other. It seems quite odd to me. I now think of raiding as a sort of anti-social social activity. You spends long periods of leisure time hanging out with people only for the sake of raid progression. There are exceptions to this, but very few in my experience, and most of those center around relationships that predate WoW.
I contrast this with the general stupidity of the trade channel and the general forums because those are environments where I expect this. Everyone repeats the same terrible jokes over and over because they don't really have much to talk about and have the natural desire to communicate. They repeat the same misinformation because the crowd approves of it. Expecting more is just idealistic given the populist nature of Blizzard's products.
I'll also add that the concept of griefing seems abhorrent to me. The lengths that people go to to frustrate or annoy another person are pathetic. This must be tolerated because many gamers are around high school age and high school is the only other environment where such behavior is commonplace.
I'm not sure all guilds are like that Yoggoth. Our guild, and many others, have a lot of real life get togethers through various niches in the guild. We have a few shots of get togethers with over 25 people.
Its easy to say:
The WoW raiding culture in particular has been disappointing for me. Once you leave a guild for whatever reason or take a break from raiding, even for a relatively short time, you are replaced and forgotten.
But the fact is: everyone will eventually quit this game. Some sooner than others, but eventually all of your best friends in game will eventually quit. Knowing all these amazing people and friends is one of the best parts of being in a raid guild - and it is also one of the worst parts having to say goodbye to each and every one of them unless you plan to maintain that in real life.
You're going to have to keep moving - replace that warlock who just quit, replace that tank, and just keep going. I doubt people are spitefully glad when someone quits WoW and gets replaced; but being replaced must be done.
We still have members from when we formed in Dec04 going strong (lots in fact), and we have had some come back after a year of hiatus. But mostly you'll see these good friends and long standing vets leave - and you're just gonna have to move on and recruit. I'm not sure there is much to dwell on there, that is just how real life goes - in game or out! You try to keep in touch, but just like your high school friends, anything past 1 year starts to stretch awfully fast. Just be happy in the moment.
MMO culture is interesting and how it has varied from game to game and why is inherently fascinating to me. That said, properly exploring it is a huge damn thing and while I may have it in my head (and I think I already at least once spewed it out on The Safehouse back in the day, probably to the tune of 20k words or so knowing me) I'm not doing so right now.
The interweb + anonymity = people being far worse to others than they would face to face... been around since IRC / games first started to get popular.
The pvp stuff isnt really wow either, you can get lucky in any game, especially if latency is involved
The WoW raiding culture in particular has been disappointing for me. Once you leave a guild for whatever reason or take a break from raiding, even for a relatively short time, you are replaced and forgotten.
This clearly mirrors contemporary literature at 'the social' as described by Bruno Latour and Karin Knorr-Cetina on 'object-centered sociality'.
Social power is very very weak, that's why baboons need to pay their 'social upkeep' every day by grooming eachother. Not doing that for a week, will lower you social baboon-status very quickly.
Us humans have introduced objects to strengthen our social ties to people. Objects are everything not-human. So work, photo's, websites, discussions, laws, ideals, art, all of them connect us with a power that is much more robust than just our social behaviour that binds us.
MMO's are a great playing area for sociologists, just like social networking sites. Playing WoW is the strongest bond most people in guilds will have. Not playing will degrade the social ties severely.
The examples Draele mentioned can indeed be annoying. But they can be ignored easily. You'll learn to ignore that behaviour anywhere on the Internet.
What surprises me more is the pain people are willing to undergo in return for epic gear.
We have all heard the "minus 50 dkp" soundtrack. And other similar examples. The amazing thing is that there were 39 other people in that raid who did not leave. Who had probably been in similar raids before. I've been in a guild on my server that was led by a bunch of russian kids. And their management was pure mafia. I've been in another guild with many friendly players, but the guildleader was an egomaniac who would not delegate anything to others, not even the stuff he was very bad at. Causing lots of drama. Ever seen a player on a ZG mount ? Wanna bet he was the guildleader ? How many guilds have rules that hugely benefit the officers ?
I can partially explain those things because the game mechanics of WoW are not optimal. (No guild banks, no out-of-raid voting system, dkp to be taken care of out-of-game, etc). Partially it is because there is a hierarchy in guilds without mechanisms to punish misbehaviour of power. Partially because people depend on a guild, and don't want to risk being guildless. And because your progress halts quickly if you are not in a large raiding guild. (Well, pvp changes that now, I guess). Maybe it is the young average age of most players.
But still, it amazes me not only what crap people pull. It amazes me equally what crap people can get away with.
I would dare to say that I find the "Extreme Elitists" to be just as bad as the "Total Fuckwad".
And with the Elitist I mean someone who i.e. constantly talks/writes about how things should be done and bashes the one trying to suggest something different from him/her.
But the amount of Fuckwads outnumber the Extreme Elitists by far. Atleast on my server.
I'm just glad you can't write to the other faction or understand what they're writing in PvP.
/spit is enough :-)
-Forum trolls. The mere concept of posting just to aggravate a fellow gamer simply baffles me.
I've been trolling internet forums as long as I've been on the internet (and that's a pretty long time) and it's in no way related to MMORPGs.
Originally Posted by Draele
-Those with minimal understanding of game mechanics who complain, cry nerf, throw around false information, etc.
An ignoramus is an ignoramus and although it's easier to spot one in WoW it has absolutely fuck all to do with online games.
Originally Posted by Draele
-When presenting correct information you're flamed.
Assholes have been around longer than the internet
Originally Posted by Draele
-Leetspeak. Ugh.
This has been around as long as the internet too, nothing to do with MMORPG culture either.
Originally Posted by Draele
-People with a complete lack of an attention span(see above)
Uhh what exactly does this have to do with MMORPGs?
Originally Posted by Draele
-Have you been on the vent servers of some of these guilds? More leetspeak, screaming, harassment, complete lack of respect for others...
When you're hanging around with your friends IRL do you pick daisies and complement their hair?
Originally Posted by Draele
-"If I win it's because I'm awesome and you suck. If I lose it's because you're overpowered and have no life."
Boasters and sore losers have been around longer than the internet too.
Originally Posted by Draele
-The selfish attitudes that nearly everyone has.
How is this unique to MMORPGs?
Originally Posted by Draele
The fact that such a large portion of these people are probably quite intelligent and easy to get along with IRL makes it all the worse. Just because you're in a game is no excuse to turn into a blithering idiot. Is it really that difficult to act like a human being? Or am I giving too much credence to the term "human being"?
You're expecting too much, put 90% of people behind pixels where they can insult other pixels without repercussion and they'll do it, it's human nature, your idea of 'human' isn't everyones.
You're basically annoyed at people having the right to be assholes on the internet and it's not related to the gaming community in the slightest. I know lots of elderly assholes who don't have internet access and they're probably worse than any of your examples and the furthest they've ever been with gaming is tetris when the game boy was the in thing and they bought it for their kids.
The WoW raiding culture in particular has been disappointing for me. Once you leave a guild for whatever reason or take a break from raiding, even for a relatively short time, you are replaced and forgotten. People in raiding guilds often spend more time interacting with their guildmates than with their own families, yet very few have any respect for each other. It seems quite odd to me. I now think of raiding as a sort of anti-social social activity. You spends long periods of leisure time hanging out with people only for the sake of raid progression. There are exceptions to this, but very few in my experience, and most of those center around relationships that predate WoW.
I realise that everyone has their own experiences but mine personally very different from yours.
WoW is my first MMO (hopefully will be my last it has to be said) and I started playing on the US servers (I have lived in England all my life) where I joined a raiding guild and played with them for about 9-10 months before the time difference got the better of me.
I'm happy to say I am still in touch with many of my old guildies from those times, despite now playing on EU servers where I belong. I talk regularly on MSN with my old guild leader and keep in touch with others on the guild website. Even people I wasn't guilded with but just on the same server with I sometimes chat to over IRC or forums. If you get a good bond with like minded people then theres no reason you can't remain friends long after you seperate guilds or even entire regional servers.
Similar story now on my EU server, there are people who I have been guilded with that don't even play WoW anymore that I stay in touch with via MSN and forums. I'm even planning a trip overseas to visit some of them. None of the people mentioned I knew before WoW.
I guess it's all about finding the right people who, admittedly, can be few and far between.
The WoW raiding culture in particular has been disappointing for me. Once you leave a guild for whatever reason or take a break from raiding, even for a relatively short time, you are replaced and forgotten. People in raiding guilds often spend more time interacting with their guildmates than with their own families, yet very few have any respect for each other. It seems quite odd to me. I now think of raiding as a sort of anti-social social activity. You spends long periods of leisure time hanging out with people only for the sake of raid progression. There are exceptions to this, but very few in my experience, and most of those center around relationships that predate WoW.
I think this is very dependant on the atmosphere you project on your guild, or they project on you if you are not a leader/officer. In our guild we try and promote more than just ingame friendships in ways of:
We all meet at I-Lan's in the UK when we can
All call each other by first names on vent and in game
Even as far as arranging to do activities non wow and non gaming together
Because of this for example I had to move house for a new job and ended up sharing a house with one of the guys from the guild that i'd known for a year and a bit, and whenever I-Lan is one everyone usually heads round our house for free accomodation and what not.
We like to think we've promoted this beyond gaming relationship between members and I think the guild runs a lot smoother because of that
A lot of the things listed here aren't even related to the internet. Just hanging out with buddies who don't use the internet for maybe more than 2 hours a day and you'll see half the things listed there. I think it should be known that I'm talking about the general 17-24 year old age group. One of the eaisest things to see:
screaming, harassment, complete lack of respect for others...
It comes down to most people are just assholes, some supress it better than others, but that part of them is still there and it's just a lot easier for it to spill over when anonymous on the internet, since you don't have a real sense of image.
Perfect example of how people act similarly in real life - College Frat parties
I heard Sigurd scored an infinity on Rock Band and ascended to heaven.
based on today's society I'm really not suprised at all. Not to mention that more and more kids are playing, if they hear somethin and think its cool, of course your gonna hear it alot more.In a sense, it's just like smoking. Not to mention everyone's attitude towards each other is just pathetic in this day and age. There is no respect period. Also, think back 7-8 years ago when EQ was the only game out there, how many of you had computers at a young age and would actually dedicate that much time to a game? I know I didn't I was to busy playing goldeneye on 64 with my friends or chasing girls. The age range has changed, of course you can expect the attitude as well.
Some of the things people talk about here can be found in real life as well, and I would say 90% of the difference can be attributed to anonimity. Somewhere along the way, I stopped considering my character as anonymous. I'm guessing that's pretty common, since you start caring about what people think of your character, even when people don't know who you really are. That's when people make level 1 forums trolls, so they can be anonymous again.
Basically, I avoid talking where people feel the most anonymous: general chats and forums, unguilded people levelling alts, etc. There's a huge difference with guild chat.
Perfect example of how people act similarly in real life - College Frat parties
How the hell do you figure? Frat parties are a lot more fun/chill than normal parties.
Frat parties = guilds: know what they're doing, know what they need to put together to have a good party, can exclude the fuckups/people that ruin it all
Normal parties = PUGs: go just because its there, may or may not know the people, don't know if its gonna break up because its lame, have to deal with any fuckups or lamers that show up without much recourse
The vast majority of frat parties are better and less likely to be violent than some random shit a friend of a friend tells you about where a dozen random thugs from God-Knows-Where show up halfway through
based on today's society I'm really not suprised at all. Not to mention that more and more kids are playing, if they hear somethin and think its cool, of course your gonna hear it alot more.In a sense, it's just like smoking. Not to mention everyone's attitude towards each other is just pathetic in this day and age. There is no respect period. Also, think back 7-8 years ago when EQ was the only game out there, how many of you had computers at a young age and would actually dedicate that much time to a game? I know I didn't I was to busy playing goldeneye on 64 with my friends or chasing girls. The age range has changed, of course you can expect the attitude as well.
Strangely, many of the posts in this very thread qualify under the retardation clause of the "MMO culture" discussed herein. Massive and multiple quotes, massive sigs? Perhaps a couple of these could've benefitted from taking a nice, long, deep breath - think your posts through, as the culture being discussed here isn't one that exists on these boards. Sorry admins, I know its not my place to say it, but good god am I going to copy that dude's sig, its wicked sweet.
Its, "c4ptiv3ting"
__________________
H2o club 8-23-06 |21c @ Idle---24c @ load|
stormshadow - "unless your going to your next lan party by horseback, i'd say it's fine"
"The clowns came out to give their show, and then this guy came out shooting them,"
Roxon1999 - "hard to beat a good WoTF masturbation technique"
An interesting statistic would be talking to people who quit WoW/EQ/etc after spending 1+ year in the game. What would be their reaction? I suspect for most people it would be that quitting was the best thing they ever did, which says a lot about MMOs...
We are still at 2nd gen MMOs and people are learning lots of things, I'm sure the 3d generation will revolve more around social aspects - MySpace/Second Life/text messaging and less around raiding and itemization. The 3d gen MMOs will break out when we see one that attracts a huge user base (100m+) and is evenly split between sexes and age groups. Probably 10 years away still.
Allot of the attitude pre-dates WoW by quite along time, I've played online games since Quake world and since kids (and not only children for that matter) have been able to grab hold of a game that puts them behind a computer screen, completely shielded and almost anonymous from any recourse of their actions - they have become morons and just generally retarded.
You put them face to face with someone and they wouldn't (usually anyway) dare to be as abusive as they care to be on forums/games. I've actually had this in real life where someone slagging us off in games/irc/forums then coming face to face with us then not even having the balls to approach us. Made for a humorous 4 day LAN party anyway.
From flame wars on forums to in game insults, it's been around on the internet for almost 15 years now (damn that makes me feel old).
07/13/07, 4:33 AM
Similar Threads
