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Old 07/13/07, 10:53 AM   #26
Opioid
Don Flamenco
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Kil'Jaeden
Originally Posted by spronk View Post
An interesting statistic would be talking to people who quit WoW/EQ/etc after spending 1+ year in the game. What would be their reaction? I suspect for most people it would be that quitting was the best thing they ever did, which says a lot about MMOs...

We are still at 2nd gen MMOs and people are learning lots of things, I'm sure the 3d generation will revolve more around social aspects - MySpace/Second Life/text messaging and less around raiding and itemization. The 3d gen MMOs will break out when we see one that attracts a huge user base (100m+) and is evenly split between sexes and age groups. Probably 10 years away still.
I think its a self-correcting adjustment. When UO/EQ were each hard as shit and the only game in town, they were popular. When WOW came out, it attracted most of those and many new people. Whatever is the easiest/least potentially time consuming model that still incorporates sufficiently intense manifestations of Operant Conditioning and Maslow's Hierarchy will always be the most popular game, I think, and it will just get less involved with each generation of games.

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Old 07/13/07, 10:55 AM   #27
Chucifer
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Tortheldrin
I agree with the previous comments regarding the penchant towards asshat-ness when anonymous. The general real life cultural restrictions regarding acceptable behavior are completely off when it comes to the internet culture. (I wouldnt peg it as MMO or WoW specific, though perhaps it is more prevalent on an MMO where a secondary community is created)

Regarding:

Originally Posted by Draele View Post
-"If I win it's because I'm awesome and you suck. If I lose it's because you're overpowered and have no life."
I think this is just general characteristic of Ego and self importance. Have you ever noticed that someone going faster than you on the highway is "crazy" and the people you have to pass because theyre slower than you "need to learn to drive"?

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Old 07/13/07, 11:00 AM   #28
c4ptiv3
Banned
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Quigon View Post
Strangely, many of the posts in this very thread qualify under the retardation clause of the "MMO culture" discussed herein. Massive and multiple quotes, massive sigs? Perhaps a couple of these could've benefitted from taking a nice, long, deep breath - think your posts through, as the culture being discussed here isn't one that exists on these boards. Sorry admins, I know its not my place to say it, but good god am I going to copy that dude's sig, its wicked sweet.

Its, "c4ptiv3ting"

__________________
H2o club 8-23-06 |21c @ Idle---24c @ load|

stormshadow - "unless your going to your next lan party by horseback, i'd say it's fine"

"The clowns came out to give their show, and then this guy came out shooting them,"

Roxon1999 - "hard to beat a good WoTF masturbation technique"


case in point

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Old 07/13/07, 11:25 AM   #29
Mekkapiano
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Bronzebeard (EU)
Originally Posted by Draele View Post
Is anyone else bothered by the WoW/MMO gaming culture? The attitudes I've encountered since January 2005 have amazed me at how...wrong a person can act. I don't want to subject you folks to a lengthy rant so I'll make it brief with some examples.
The stuff you mention, with the exception of crits and other game-specific mechanics, is not at all restricted to WoW or MMOs. It's not even restricted to being online.

It's just the standard vocal minority problem. Unfortunately, WoW tends to exacerbate it due to almost non-existent policing, to the extent that it's probably not even a minority any more. It's also because the game attracts a large number of younger players, and if you've been around a big group of youngsters recently (or are one) you'll notice how their behaviour in real life is pretty much the same as your list.

It's a shame, because if there were even the slightest bit of behaviour policing in the game, we'd see a dramatic reduction in antisocial players. GMs are absolutely not allowed to police anyone for their behaviour if it's within the rules of the game mechanics. That's just wrong - in the "old days" the very job description of GM was policing behaviour. They're basically just tech support instead.

One I really have to pick out in particular, though:
-The selfish attitudes that nearly everyone has.
That constantly strikes me too. People who ninja loot. People who disconnect on an instance run because they have something else to do. People who start instance runs knowing full well they can't stay for more than 50 minutes. People who employ, pay or otherwise utilise gold farmer services. People who leech battlegrounds. People who negatively play battlegrounds (HK farm while you lose over and over). People who spent 3 hours hanging around a common lowbie leveling area with a quest mob so they can grief them over and over again (this last point - and I'm not exaggerating 3 hours - was the last straw which made me move to a PvE server).

Most of those people have in fact forgotten that they're playing a game, or have at least forgotten why they're playing it. It's simply a case of "get more gear than your friends". There's a parallel to the Facebook phenomenon - a lot of people use it just to keep in touch, but a lot of other people are only trying to collect as many friends as they can as some sort of social status. It's the same thing. They're playing some other kind of meta-game either against themselves or some other group of people, and they're doing it to the detriment of those that are playing the actual game.

Again, it mimics what those people do in real life, and it's nothing specific to being WoW or an MMO.

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Old 07/13/07, 11:40 AM   #30
Groglox
Shave and a hair cut
 
Groglox's Avatar
 
Goblin Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
edit: I can't believe I missed it.

edit2: I think it is interesting that Warhammer Online for these very reasons is not going to have community forums.

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Old 07/13/07, 11:46 AM   #31
Proxy
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Priest
 
Hellscream (EU)
Originally Posted by Mekkapiano View Post
It's a shame, because if there were even the slightest bit of behaviour policing in the game, we'd see a dramatic reduction in antisocial players. GMs are absolutely not allowed to police anyone for their behaviour if it's within the rules of the game mechanics. That's just wrong - in the "old days" the very job description of GM was policing behaviour. They're basically just tech support instead.
If Blizzard would design behaviour in the game as well, that social world would be utterly dead. The only way to get a social game/site/network to florish, is to let go of most behavourial boundaries.

I'd quit within a second if a GM would interfere with me joking with friends or having sweet and often deserved revenge on the alliance. My behaviour is the embodiment of being me (along with all the imba crits and purple gear, proving my epeen ofc).

Etienne Wenger (a scientist on social learning) would call this the duality between the Designed and the Emergent.

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Old 07/13/07, 12:07 PM   #32
Talgog
Don Flamenco
 
Human Death Knight
 
Archimonde
The number of immature and lazy people in WoW is not really specific to it. It's generally how people act in real life if there are not consequences for it. There are an awfult lot of immature, lazy, and dishonest people out there. That's amplified online because (a) it's people who are playing an online game, which means a lot will be immature by definition due to the age range and (b) there is no punishment, either in game or otherwise (people knowing who you are). Server transfers have even removed what was the most serious in-game consequence of being a massive creep. You can get a name change and an entire new life, no strings, no record. Good deal.

You really want to imagine what the real world would be like if it was that easy IRL?

Bad guild management is also hardly limited to online worlds. There are plenty of bad, leadership centric, toxic organizations in the real world. Everyone knows there are certain places you just don't want to work, be it a law firm known to be extra brutal to associates, a corporation in town that believes in short-term employment, a grocery or retail store known to be managed by fascists, or, say, a gang that doesn't give a shit about its soldier members.

Maybe this is the first time that a lot of people have encountered something that is run like a prison gang or a slave galley, but there are no shortage of real-world alternatives if you ask around. See also incompetent, corrupt brutal governments.

~

It's not an MMO problem. It's a human race problem.

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Old 07/13/07, 12:10 PM   #33
Xejin
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Nordrassil
Originally Posted by Draele View Post
Is anyone else bothered by the WoW/MMO gaming culture? The attitudes I've encountered since January 2005 have amazed me at how...wrong a person can act. I don't want to subject you folks to a lengthy rant so I'll make it brief with some examples.


-Forum trolls. The mere concept of posting just to aggravate a fellow gamer simply baffles me.
-Those with minimal understanding of game mechanics who complain, cry nerf, throw around false information, etc.
-When presenting correct information you're flamed.
-Leetspeak. Ugh.
-Crits = totally awesome. If you kill with a crit string you're an elite gaming god. Be ready to get an earful if you're a healer or DoT class and you aren't owned by their "elite critzorz gaming skills"
-People with a complete lack of an attention span(see above)
-Have you been on the vent servers of some of these guilds? More leetspeak, screaming, harassment, complete lack of respect for others...
-"If I win it's because I'm awesome and you suck. If I lose it's because you're overpowered and have no life."
-The selfish attitudes that nearly everyone has.


The fact that such a large portion of these people are probably quite intelligent and easy to get along with IRL makes it all the worse. Just because you're in a game is no excuse to turn into a blithering idiot. Is it really that difficult to act like a human being? Or am I giving too much credence to the term "human being"?

I'll end my post on something of a lighter note and sum my thoughts up with a nifty diagram from Penny Arcade!

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2004/20040319h.jpg
You've just described human nature when given the protection of anonymity. This goes beyond MMO / Gaming / Internet - these things are just vehicles for the bad apples.

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Old 07/13/07, 12:12 PM   #34
Gryzemuis
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Rogue
 
Deathwing (EU)
Originally Posted by Groglox View Post
edit2: I think it is interesting that Warhammer Online for these very reasons is not going to have community forums.
Vanguard didn't have community forums.
But it had forums on fansites.
It only made problems worse.

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Old 07/13/07, 12:14 PM   #35
Kaubel
Sledgehammer Emeritus
 
Kaubel's Avatar
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Xejin View Post
You've just described human nature when given the protection of anonymity. This goes beyond MMO / Gaming / Internet - these things are just vehicles for the bad apples.
This.

With that said, these forums aren't really the place to philosophize over human nature.

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